[blindkid] inaccessible homework and a quick math question
Trudy Pickrel
tlpickrel at hotmail.com
Fri Dec 16 19:09:06 UTC 2011
A couple things about the IEP and even for Richard is a snapshot. You can use it to markout who will be in charge of what if the TVI is incapacitated for length of time longer length of time then a day or two. Also on the IEP we have it that a print book is to come home at the beginning of the year for us to use at home for all subjects. With any worksheets a print copy along with a complete braille copy is included to come home.
Our latest hurdle is being permitted to bring his apex home to do writing assignments. So that we are able to print out and help him at its just like all the other kids have their parents helping them. that it is much easier than using a braille writer which if you relay it to the teachers it's like using a 1970 electric typewriter.
Each year I bite my tongue and say this year we're going to get along great with the board of ed and the teachers and we try her best to keep things civil and business like but there is always that time we have to put your foot down sometimes and advocate for our kids.
Yes I agree with Richard. It is a ongoing process.
Trudy L Pickrel
President MD Parents Blind Children
Owner TLC by the Lake poodles
On Dec 16, 2011, at 1:05 PM, blindkid-request at nfbnet.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: inaccessible homework and a quick math question. (Penny Duffy)
> 2. Re: inaccessible homework and a quick math question. (DrV)
> 3. photo of Adelyn (Donna McNew)
> 4. Re: inaccessible homework and a quick math question.
> (Richard Holloway)
> 5. Re: photo of Adelyn (Pat Renfranz)
> 6. Re: photo of Adelyn (Carol Castellano)
> 7. Re: [Bulk] photo of Adelyn (Brandy W)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 19:36:53 -0500
> From: Penny Duffy <pennyduffy at gmail.com>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] inaccessible homework and a quick math
> question.
> Message-ID:
> <CABb_=QfsX1EnooOCO1Lj_A4K8RJfO8oj-v0k-hnOL=yNvVDb=A at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> So what you are saying Richard is it pretty much never ends LOL. We had a
> bumpy night of homework tonight but something that made it easier is it was
> brailled. They are starting to realize that even though her reading level
> is still pretty low having the instructions brailled can be such an
> important lesson.
>
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org>wrote:
>
>> Having guidelines in the IEP and staying on top of this are great ideas,
>> but it is probably never going to be a perfect system. Our regular TVI had
>> a medical issue earlier this year and was out for several months. As far as
>> I know, there was never a significant gap in services. Problem is, we ended
>> up with two alternative TVI's plus a transcriber, plus our regular
>> paraprofessional, as well as our Regular Ed teacher and the classroom
>> Special Ed teacher all trying to cover part of the gap. The net result was
>> continual mistakes. Braille would come without print. Print wold come
>> without Braille. We would get only a web URL to a place where a screen
>> reader would not work and where we could not display Braille though we knew
>> there were books at school with the same content. Sometimes, they'd just
>> forget to send anything, or it would show up days late. Funny though, the
>> test dates stayed the same, and it isn't like the homework system was
>> perfect before our TVI was out sick.
>>
>> I think the big problem is a general lack of the concept of learning for a
>> blind student. We kept hearing of things due that we're not written in
>> Kendra's agenda. ALL students are required to use agendas in her school.
>> Well, they finally told us Kendra was keeping her agenda in her BRAILLE
>> NOTE. Okay, well in the first place, nobody told us, and the written agenda
>> was still being sent home with only partial info in it. So why would they
>> send home mismatched info in two places?
>>
>> Beyond that, why would we suddenly look on the BrailleNote for this after
>> two years? They never did this in first or second grade. Besides, when we
>> HAVE checked since then, we often find that BOTH lists are incomplete.
>> Finally, this is a third grader. All parents of kids this age need to be
>> able to look in their kids' agendas to see what they are supposed to be
>> doing. What do they think will happen if a kid can read a Braille list and
>> "accidentally" skip reporting some work thats's due whenever they like? Are
>> WE supposed to struggle through reading this list in Braille on her
>> notetaker? Are we supposed to plug into a VGA monitor to check this every
>> time when parents of sighted kids parents just open a notebook and read the
>> list? We're doing these things in the car on the way to swim lessons or
>> yoga class, for goodness' sake.
>>
>> And it has been more than just dealing with the homework list. Letting
>> Kendra listen to content from a talking website when other kids can read
>> the content visually from the screen is just not the same for her and
>> teachers need to understand that. We tried without a way for Kendra to read
>> this material for herself. She was getting 75's on tests. We got it for her
>> in Braille and suddenly she was back to making 100's. That is no small deal
>> for our child!
>>
>> I guess this is all a long way of saying that the critical part of the
>> process is getting the teachers to understand how important it really is to
>> have all of this material at at home in all the right formats. Try to let
>> them see how it all has a direct impact on getting homework and study
>> completed and on the quality of learning which is possible for our kids. I
>> think at least for Kendra,that is our best hope for improvement in these
>> areas.
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2011, at 6:05 PM, Penny Duffy <pennyduffy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I am noticing more of Abby's assignments (she is in second grade) are
>>> coming home in an inaccessible format. I try and be understanding. It
>>> seems to be a trend right now not a rare assignment forgotten about. Her
>>> math is always braille but its her word work that seems to be the
>> program.
>>> It seems like I get them trained and things come home right and then they
>>> kinda fall back into not doing it. (she was sick for a week) Is this
>>> going to be a problem that keeps coming up? We had a great IEP meeting
>> just
>>> less than two weeks ago. They know I am going to help her with her
>>> homework and they seem to use that as a fall back. She actually has a
>> great
>>> TVI and a great classroom teacher it just seems like 'little' things like
>>> this happen all the time. I plan to calm down a bit and sending a quick
>>> email reminding them that all her work is suppose to come home in
>> braille.
>>> I am just a wee bit frustrated.
>>>
>>> Also Abby is doing really well in math. She has a great mind for numbers
>> (I
>>> wonder if she is my kid) I noticed in her last assessment that there was
>>> some areas she wasn't really strong in an all of them involved a visual
>>> element to it. graphing, measuring. They didn't include her answers
>> this
>>> time (usually its attached) This is a common area for a blind child to
>>> struggle in correct? I was told verbally she did great in the assessment.
>>> So I was taken a back when those areas were labeled "developing"
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --Penny
>>> ----------
>>> A lucky mother to two amazing children - visionfora.blogspot.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindkid mailing list
>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindkid:
>>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> blindkid:
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> --Penny
> ----------
> A lucky mother to two amazing children - visionfora.blogspot.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:12:08 -0800
> From: DrV <icdx at earthlink.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] inaccessible homework and a quick math
> question.
> Message-ID: <CB0FD7D7.87DD%icdx at earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> Bingo!
> It's a roller coaster - that's for sure - has been, continues to be, & no
> doubt will go on being - one without brakes...
> The issues & players change, the scenery changes, but the ups & downs just
> keep on coming; every year, every month, every week, sometimes every day.
> Make the most of the ride, the scenery, & the folks you meet along the way
> :-)
> Eric V
>
> On 12/15/11 4:36 PM, "Penny Duffy" <pennyduffy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So what you are saying Richard is it pretty much never ends LOL. We had
>> a
>> bumpy night of homework tonight but something that made it easier is it
>> was
>> brailled. They are starting to realize that even though her reading level
>> is still pretty low having the instructions brailled can be such an
>> important lesson.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2011 at 10:09 AM, Richard Holloway
>> <rholloway at gopbc.org>wrote:
>>
>>> Having guidelines in the IEP and staying on top of this are great ideas,
>>> but it is probably never going to be a perfect system. Our regular TVI
>>> had
>>> a medical issue earlier this year and was out for several months. As
>>> far as
>>> I know, there was never a significant gap in services. Problem is, we
>>> ended
>>> up with two alternative TVI's plus a transcriber, plus our regular
>>> paraprofessional, as well as our Regular Ed teacher and the classroom
>>> Special Ed teacher all trying to cover part of the gap. The net result
>>> was
>>> continual mistakes. Braille would come without print. Print wold come
>>> without Braille. We would get only a web URL to a place where a screen
>>> reader would not work and where we could not display Braille though we
>>> knew
>>> there were books at school with the same content. Sometimes, they'd just
>>> forget to send anything, or it would show up days late. Funny though,
>>> the
>>> test dates stayed the same, and it isn't like the homework system was
>>> perfect before our TVI was out sick.
>>>
>>> I think the big problem is a general lack of the concept of learning
>>> for a
>>> blind student. We kept hearing of things due that we're not written in
>>> Kendra's agenda. ALL students are required to use agendas in her school.
>>> Well, they finally told us Kendra was keeping her agenda in her BRAILLE
>>> NOTE. Okay, well in the first place, nobody told us, and the written
>>> agenda
>>> was still being sent home with only partial info in it. So why would
>>> they
>>> send home mismatched info in two places?
>>>
>>> Beyond that, why would we suddenly look on the BrailleNote for this
>>> after
>>> two years? They never did this in first or second grade. Besides, when
>>> we
>>> HAVE checked since then, we often find that BOTH lists are incomplete.
>>> Finally, this is a third grader. All parents of kids this age need to be
>>> able to look in their kids' agendas to see what they are supposed to be
>>> doing. What do they think will happen if a kid can read a Braille list
>>> and
>>> "accidentally" skip reporting some work thats's due whenever they like?
>>> Are
>>> WE supposed to struggle through reading this list in Braille on her
>>> notetaker? Are we supposed to plug into a VGA monitor to check this
>>> every
>>> time when parents of sighted kids parents just open a notebook and read
>>> the
>>> list? We're doing these things in the car on the way to swim lessons or
>>> yoga class, for goodness' sake.
>>>
>>> And it has been more than just dealing with the homework list. Letting
>>> Kendra listen to content from a talking website when other kids can read
>>> the content visually from the screen is just not the same for her and
>>> teachers need to understand that. We tried without a way for Kendra to
>>> read
>>> this material for herself. She was getting 75's on tests. We got it for
>>> her
>>> in Braille and suddenly she was back to making 100's. That is no small
>>> deal
>>> for our child!
>>>
>>> I guess this is all a long way of saying that the critical part of the
>>> process is getting the teachers to understand how important it really
>>> is to
>>> have all of this material at at home in all the right formats. Try to
>>> let
>>> them see how it all has a direct impact on getting homework and study
>>> completed and on the quality of learning which is possible for our
>>> kids. I
>>> think at least for Kendra,that is our best hope for improvement in these
>>> areas.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2011, at 6:05 PM, Penny Duffy <pennyduffy at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am noticing more of Abby's assignments (she is in second grade) are
>>>> coming home in an inaccessible format. I try and be understanding.
>>> It
>>>> seems to be a trend right now not a rare assignment forgotten about.
>>> Her
>>>> math is always braille but its her word work that seems to be the
>>> program.
>>>> It seems like I get them trained and things come home right and then
>>> they
>>>> kinda fall back into not doing it. (she was sick for a week) Is this
>>>> going to be a problem that keeps coming up? We had a great IEP meeting
>>> just
>>>> less than two weeks ago. They know I am going to help her with her
>>>> homework and they seem to use that as a fall back. She actually has a
>>> great
>>>> TVI and a great classroom teacher it just seems like 'little' things
>>> like
>>>> this happen all the time. I plan to calm down a bit and sending a
>>> quick
>>>> email reminding them that all her work is suppose to come home in
>>> braille.
>>>> I am just a wee bit frustrated.
>>>>
>>>> Also Abby is doing really well in math. She has a great mind for
>>> numbers
>>> (I
>>>> wonder if she is my kid) I noticed in her last assessment that there
>>> was
>>>> some areas she wasn't really strong in an all of them involved a
>>> visual
>>>> element to it. graphing, measuring. They didn't include her answers
>>> this
>>>> time (usually its attached) This is a common area for a blind child to
>>>> struggle in correct? I was told verbally she did great in the
>>> assessment.
>>>> So I was taken a back when those areas were labeled "developing"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --Penny
>>>> ----------
>>>> A lucky mother to two amazing children - visionfora.blogspot.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindkid mailing list
>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindkid:
>>>>
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40gopbc.o
>>> rg
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindkid mailing list
>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> blindkid:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/pennyduffy%40gmail.
>>> com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --Penny
>> ----------
>> A lucky mother to two amazing children - visionfora.blogspot.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindkid mailing list
>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindkid:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/icdx%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 17:38:25 -0800
> From: Donna McNew <dlmcnew at wwestsky.net>
> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [blindkid] photo of Adelyn
> Message-ID: <821980B1-F552-4FF3-9DD3-B3952F869A9F at wwestsky.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> It is difficult for all of us. Adelyn has many institutional behaviors that we will have to work on when we get home.
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: IMG_6148.jpeg
> Type: image/jpg
> Size: 28090 bytes
> Desc: not available
> URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/blindkid_nfbnet.org/attachments/20111215/c95ecf82/attachment-0001.jpg>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 23:01:42 -0500
> From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] inaccessible homework and a quick math
> question.
> Message-ID: <C28148A2-72C4-4268-97BB-9CAFC6DF5740 at gopbc.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Unfortunately I think you're right, but i think Dr.V is correct too-- best to just jump on the coaster and enjoy the ride whenever possible.
>
> One thing that has taken a number of years for me to realize though: I used to feel badly when they would Braille things we didn't really "need". Maybe instructions or study guides or possibly an assignment that we did verbally for whatever reason. One day, it dawned on me that it is simply a part their jobs to prepare this. My child has every right to fully access the same materials including all supporting matter for her schoolwork. Don't get me wrong, I truly appreciate the hard work of all Kendra's teachers, but this is part of what they do for a living.
>
> How many sighted kids use every piece of printed supporting material they have available? Does it mater if they seem to be "ready" for having instructions to read in PRINT? Maybe directions are only read or needed 1 time in 5 or 1 in 20. Maybe they are never used. Still, they are there when needed. Besides, not having instructions or whatever else sighted classmates may have provided for our kids in Braille sends a terrible message to our sons and daughters!
>
> I see this as an extension of what we did when Kendra was a baby. We STILL have Braille on Kendra's bed that says "bed", and there are similar labels on drawers, the dishwasher, doors, you name it. Why did we do it? It helped Kendra to learn, having words to see, just like sighted kids see words all over as babies. Later, they ask "why is this stuff here?" No matter if the "stuff" is print or Braille, kids need to know that reading is important from the very start.
>
> If I were one hundred percent certain we wouldn't need something really complicated to prepare, maybe I'd think about waving them off, but otherwise, that is exactly what I would ask if this happens in the future? "what message are you trying to send my child by intentionally offering her LESS information than all the sighted kids?"
>
> I'd like to hear a reasonable answer to that question from any school system employee. Things are hard enough for our kids when they have the same information as their sighted counterparts. Far too often, our kids are expected to do MORE work with LESS info then the rest of the children. That's just not right.
>
> Anyhow, glad things are improving for you.
>
> Richard
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Dec 15, 2011, at 7:36 PM, Penny Duffy <pennyduffy at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> So what you are saying Richard is it pretty much never ends LOL. We had a
>> bumpy night of homework tonight but something that made it easier is it was
>> brailled. They are starting to realize that even though her reading level
>> is still pretty low having the instructions brailled can be such an
>> important lesson.
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 15 Dec 2011 21:35:23 -0700
> From: Pat Renfranz <dblair2525 at msn.com>
> To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] photo of Adelyn
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP3987A7657F1F6627CBD4AB3D5A00 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
> She is a beautiful child. Such joy. Wishing you the very best,
> Pat Renfranz
>
>
> On 12/15/11 6:38 PM, "Donna McNew" <dlmcnew at wwestsky.net> wrote:
>
>> It is difficult for all of us. Adelyn has many institutional behaviors that
>> we will have to work on when we get home.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindkid mailing list
>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindkid:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/dblair2525%40msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 08:11:53 -0500
> From: Carol Castellano <carol_castellano at verizon.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind children\)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] photo of Adelyn
> Message-ID: <852556.31825.qm at smtp102.vzn.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> We wish you all the best with Adelyn and your new journey! Several
> of our families have had challenges like this. I hope that they will
> be able to provide you with great tips and lots of support.
>
> Best wishes,
> Carol
>
> Carol Castellano
> President, Parents of Blind Children-NJ
> Director of Programs
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> 973-377-0976
> carol_castellano at verizon.net
> www.blindchildren.org
> www.nopbc.org
>
> At 08:38 PM 12/15/2011, you wrote:
>> It is difficult for all of us. Adelyn has many institutional
>> behaviors that we will have to work on when we get home.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindkid mailing list
>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindkid:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/blindchildren%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 16 Dec 2011 07:49:15 -0600
> From: "Brandy W" <branlw at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List, \(for parents of blind children\)"
> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] [Bulk] photo of Adelyn
> Message-ID: <661DCCFA5472494B8E943EB68FE8F9AB at Brandy>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> And we will all be here to help you with the journey. Support is what we do
> best around here. Enjoy the time there and the trip home.
>
> Bran
>
>
>
> "When we treat children's play as seriously as it deserves, we are helping
> them feel the joy that's to be found in the creative spirit. It's the things
> we play with and the people who help us play that make a great difference in
> our lives."
> ? Fred Rogers
>
> Brandy Wojcik
> Discovery Toys Educational Consultant and Team Leader
> www.playtoachieve.com
> (512) 689-5045
>
> Looking for team members nation wide!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Donna McNew" <dlmcnew at wwestsky.net>
> To: <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2011 7:38 PM
> Subject: [Bulk] [blindkid] photo of Adelyn
>
>
> It is difficult for all of us. Adelyn has many institutional behaviors that
> we will have to work on when we get home.
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindkid mailing list
>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> blindkid:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/branlw%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of blindkid Digest, Vol 92, Issue 12
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