[blindkid] labeling diagrams?

Sun Jan 16 15:22:47 UTC 2011

Re descriptions of complex diagrams, I second the idea that the 
describer must understand what the diagram is supposed to 
demonstrate.  When Serena took biology, the teacher agree to describe 
the diagrams she would be using in class (in other words, she didn't 
describe all that were in the book).  She did this once a week and 
then gave Serena the recording.  For the test, Serena was expected to 
be able to describe the process in words and did not use the diagram.

There are some ideas (I think good ones  :-) ) for making maps and 
dealing with diagrams in Making It Work.

Carol

At 07:11 PM 1/15/2011, you wrote:

>In my child's case:
>Sometimes the actual object or a rendition of it (like a toy or 
>miniature) is better than most any tactile diagram. As Sally says, 
>with 3-D depictions, this can be especially true. Caroline needs the 
>chance to compare a cube, say, with the 3-D perspective depiction, 
>and be able to mark faces etc. (In this case, we used wikki stix to 
>mark the face of the cube and the face as drawn with an embosser device.)
>
>A great description of a figure, by someone who knows what the 
>figure is supposed to demonstrate (not always a given), is better 
>understood than the drawing. Caroline has found that some of the 
>RFBD readers are adept at describing a geography or biology figure. 
>A few words is better than a too-complex diagram. Sometimes the 
>description and the diagram are both necesssary.
>
>Caroline compared some possible textures for me that I was 
>considering using with capsule paper. I was surprised sometimes at 
>the ones she said were best distinguished; they certainly were not 
>the ones that, by eye, I would have selected.
>
>Another thing to be aware of: we have also found it frustrating to 
>have the figures in textbooks made accessible. If the order does not 
>specify including diagrams, a Braille textbook will not likely come 
>with them. Even if the books do claim to come with diagrams, 
>sometimes only a very small percentage of the drawings are rendered 
>(how do we as a parent know what the decision process was??) or the 
>drawings run out (as with geography, they stopped making the maps 
>after Chapter 8).
>
>I think I've become some sort of diagram Nazi! She is taking world 
>geography this year and had geometry and American History last year, 
>and we've really had to push hard and take on a lot ourselves.
>pat
>
>
>
> > From: seacknit at gmail.com
> > To: jjordan_pa at yahoo.com; blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2011 10:01:28 -0600
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] labeling diagrams?
> >
> > I took a class on preparing tactile graphics at our regional education
> > service center. We were given the book "Tactile Graphics" by Polly Edman:
> > 
> http://www.afb.org/store/product.asp?sku=978%2D0%2D89128%2D194%2D8&mscssid=52V6T1876Q5N9L7XK94KT5DJGMTP45H1
> >
> > One of the important pieces of information I took away from the class was
> > the fact that sighted people tend to make tactile graphics LOOK good. What
> > the graphic creator needs to do is close his or her eyes and feel the
> > graphic to discern if the graphic makes tactual sense. Does putting hot
> > glue around the outline of a picture of a frog really convey the 
> concept of
> > frog? Creating tactile graphics is very much higher level thinking.
> > Diagrams may not look like the sighted peoples diagram--they need 
> to convey
> > the information the person needs to learn.
> >
> > Sally Thomas
> >
> > P.S. Also, my son has used 3-d models for geometry. They are 
> allowed on our
> > state exam.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <jjordan_pa at yahoo.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,(for parents of blind children)"
> > <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 5:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] labeling diagrams?
> >
> >
> > Pat, thanks for all that wonderful info. Just this week I had to deal with
> > a test for my daughter, Ari, that had THREE questions involving a slightly
> > raised line drawing of a cube, rectangular prism and a triangular prism.
> > She missed all three of the questions as she was unable to 
> discern the "top"
> > line from the "back" lines. The two dimensional drawing for the sighted is
> > an illusion of 3-D and amazed me that tactile shapes for the 
> objects was not
> > used for the test. Ludicrous.
> >
> > Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Bonnie Lucas" <lucas.bonnie at gmail.com>
> > Sender: blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org
> > Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2011 13:28:09
> > To: 'NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,\(for parents of blind
> > children\)'<blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Reply-To: "NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List,
> > \(for parents of blind children\)" <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] labeling diagrams?
> >
> > Wow, Pat, based on the fact that Aubrie says nothing to me about tactile
> > diagrams, I would say that this is a part of her education that has been
> > virtually ignored. I'm going to pass this along to her TVI and ask if they
> > have done anything about making them. Thanks.
> > Bonnie
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Pat Renfranz [mailto:dblair2525 at msn.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 8:08 AM
> > To: NFBnet Blind Kid Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [blindkid] labeling diagrams?
> >
> > Hi Rosina,
> >
> > We have been struggling with tactile diagrams for years. I have 
> learned that
> > there is both an art and a science to the production of diagrams.
> >
> > First, I have a strong adverse reaction to the use of hot glue for the
> > creation of diagrams, which it looks like your school is using. As you say,
> > with hot glue, there is no differentiation betweens lines of different
> > types, no possibility of shading. If that is the only method Roman's school
> > is using, it is sloppy and lazy, in my (not so humble) opinion!
> >
> > I urge you to visit Lucia Hasty's website, 
> <http://www.tactilegraphics.org>.
> > On it, there is a link called "NOPBC" that includes the power point slides
> > she used in a presentation at the 2010 seminar. The website also includes a
> > lot of great information on when graphics should be prepared and specific
> > techniques. I would also suggest you get your son's teachers (or whoever is
> > prepping his graphics) to take a look, and improve the quality of 
> what he is
> > being given.
> >
> > I make some of the graphics my daughter requires for school. I 
> use different
> > techniques, including (1) computer drawing programs, microcapsule 
> paper, and
> > a special heating element (not as simple as just running the 
> paper through a
> > copier), (2) lots of craft store and hardware supplies (stick-on jewels,
> > graphic arts tape, stick-on earrings, felt/rubber dots etc, wikki 
> stix, puff
> > paint), (3) APH "Quota" supplies like tactile graph paper, Braille and
> > tactile stickers, etc that I get from my daughter's teacher.
> >
> > Labeling the diagrams is really hard. Some thoughts:
> > There are Braille/LP stick-on letters and tactile stickers available from
> > APH (his teacher ought to be able to get these); we use them in instances
> > where the labels won't occlude the information in the diagram. The stickers
> > are big, so we trim the print away. We also use the tiny jewels/felt dots
> > then make a key.
> > Provide a labeled and unlabelled diagram, one for studying and 
> one for test,
> > with a key and with one-on-one instruction of what stands for what.
> > For tests, the student's pointing things out and giving a verbal answer
> > might be best -- that's what we are doing in geography.
> > It is hard to make the "lead lines" (lines that point to something) and the
> > diagram lines distinguishable, so we avoid if possible.
> > The Princeton Braillists have an incredible world atlas and, as I have
> > learned, sets of tactile maps for purchase. There is a science diagram
> > tactile book from APH I think for basic science diagrams.
> > Sometimes it takes more than one tactile diagram to illustrate 
> everything on
> > one print diagram. Where the lines get very close to each other, for
> > example, one should perhaps make a 2nd diagram that "blows up" that region
> > or detail.
> >
> > There are guidelines for the production of graphics. BANA has just approved
> > new guidelines, but I can't seem to find a copy of them. Purdue University
> > has the "Tactile Diagram Manual," which is excellent, especially 
> for capsule
> > paper diagrams. Let me know if you would like a copy, and I will email to
> > you directly. There is also a book "Tactile Graphics" by Edman that is
> > excellent; it provides information like "if you have two different lines on
> > a diagram, what 2 are best distinguished tactually from each other?"
> >
> > And lastly, if you can tell that glue diagrams are inadequate, 
> you have more
> > imagination that the people giving them to your son!!!
> >
> > Sorry this reply is so long. Hope it helps.
> >
> > Good luck,
> > Pat
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 1/10/11 5:13 PM, "Rosina Solano" <colemangirly at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have a question about labeling diagrams. How do the kids do these?
> > >
> > > Right now the school super enlarges one like a picture of a plant cell.
> > Then
> > > they go over parts of the diagram with glue to make raised parts for the
> > > chromosomes, nucleous, etc. Roman has braille labels to glue onto these
> > > areas. Problem, even though Roman has some vision this is totally
> > inadequate
> > > in my line of thinking. The pictures are diverse, but the glue spots are
> > not,
> > > how is he to tell the difference? Also, the lines that point to the
> > "raised"
> > > areas do not have glue on them, so he can't even follow them to the line
> > to
> > > put the label on.
> > > Even if this was all raised, I feel there has got to be a better way to
> > label
> > > diagrams. How have any of you done this? Please really spell things out
> > as I
> > > am visually dependant, with no imagination.
> > >
> > > Thank you so much!!!
> > >
> > > Rosina
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > om
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Carol Castellano
National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
973-377-0976
carol_castellano at verizon.net
www.nopbc.org  