[blindkid] Question about Student Loan Forgiveness for Parent

Thu Dec 6 02:42:36 UTC 2012

Well Dear Natae,
I have feelings too. I suppose I could be sorry I wrote, but I am not. I hope you lose the regret over asking the question. I doubt you are really that fragile. An atmosphere of too much fragility squashes alot of great discourse and learning as well. I never met a parent of a blind child who was not a researcher. :)

I understood you thought your query was simple. And initially I tried to make my response the same. But you will find that the issue surrounding the question, broadly, is not simple. Not at all. And Arielle has tried to touch on some of it too. I doubt anyone was seriously offended in the scheme of what we all deal with daily...but I do point out that the idea can be, and often is offensive.

About 15 years ago, full of passion and determination, I went to lunch with a blind woman, for the first time. She had been active for decades "changing what it means to be blind". I wanted to be a part of that for my son. I wanted the world's understanding of blindness to be better. I did not want my son to be discriminated against. I had my pen and notebook. I was ready to take notes, to make a list of what we had to do....and then we could check off our victories as we went. So as we sat down, my first question to her was, "What does it mean to be blind? What do we have to do to change it?" She sat and thought for a minute. Then she began, "It means, you are educated, have a job, make a decent income, maybe your own family....and when you get on the bus to go home, or to work, or to the store....the driver insists you pay the reduced disability fare and sit in the handicapped section....even though there is nothing wrong with your legs or your pocketbook." I put my notebook away.

Maybe a decade after that, after. i had learned much more. Another parent said something about the National Federation FOR the Blind to me as I was very hurriedly in between some large responsibilities, and in our conversation I quickly and automatically-by-then interjected "OF", it's of the blind...and back to the conversation.....later one of her friends told me I had made her feel stupid and like nothing and terrible and etc etc....but I knew it was not me, or the way I said it or that what I said was incorrect. i knew she was new, and full of feelings of doubt and emotion over the whole thing and what she had not known.  Knew because I had been just like her. i have been like you too. i also knew for her daughter she needed to learn that all important huge difference in meaning between an organization FOR the blind and of....and someday she would understand.

I hope someday you understand i do not think I look too deeply. also that I never considered or implied selfishness....only a possible misunderstanding of when it is appropriate to take a "free pass" or reduced fare, or seat at the front, or more time on a test, or all the thousands of other choices that will come and when it is not appropriate or useful. And remember everytime you DO take something free you teach the world something about blindness...well blind people need free stuff....it is hard to be blind....they need breaks, special breaks. do they? Really? Or do they just need access and opportunity? Remember everytime you will also teach your child.

When I worked at an adjustment to blindness training center I observed several hundred people over the years....some came in as adults, not a few, having been raised to feel they were entitled to all kinds of "breaks"....also that they NEEDED all kinds of breaks sighted people did not get simply because they were blind...so everything was harder they believed....they felt sorry for themselves....they had low opinions of their capabilities....I know deeply the kind of damage this kind of thinking leads to. I don't write here often anymore, geez it has been a long time...enjoying retirement...the teacher mentor rose up in me. I also never know when or if I will get a chance to talk to someone again. i always leave people with as much as I can pack....just in case. Because someone else once did it for me. i am into prevention. big.  :)
Best to you,
Carrie
Sent from my iPad

On Dec 5, 2012, at 7:21 PM, Natae Jones-Beasley <nataejones at hotmail.com> wrote:

> 
> Carrie,     It wasn't my intention to offend anyone with either my question (that I initially debated on making public because I was afraid it could be viewed wrongly) or with my response.  I know that you can never know someone's tone or true intention when reading type.  I felt my question was just a simple, face-value one.  Yes, I see how someone could be offended by that, and pray that no one was.        I am just a researcher by nature, and someone with family at heart, so I thought I would ask.  I am new this journey, I have a young child- an infant- and just want to do the absolute best for him and my family.  (If I had a purple child, I would google everything I could for "purple children"-just anything, you know?)  I do feel like the site is safe, but initally I was hurt and felt saddened that my question was taken in (what I felt to be) a selfish manner.  Please don't look too deeply into it.  Now, really, I wish that I hadn't asked. :/  I thought, "Hey, if anyone knows, the NOPBC or these parents will".           I appreciate your follow-up email and your responses.  I know being part of this online community is a huge resource for me, and I know involvement will do nothing but benefit my child and my family.                                  <>< Natae
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
>> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 18:21:07 -0600
>> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Question about Student Loan Forgiveness for Parent
>> 
>> Dear Natae,
>> It also occurred to me that my response might be "taken" as hurtful but unfortunately there is no other short answer to the question Carlton put forth. i am experienced enough to know that (and esp with email and persons unknown) ANY thing is likely as not to be "taken" not as you intend. i am not sure how you think I took it. i meant that there is most probably no loan forgiveness for being a parent of a blind child, because there is no need for that as a rule. And i put it that way to hopefully bring about some thought on what even asking the question means. What do you mean "taken this way"? you probably never heard of me, but I have a bit of experience with thousands of experiences and I had run through all the possible reasons to homeschool a blind child beyond simply you believe in home schooling or for religious based reasons. it has been done not uncommonly for a blind child when a parent is able in both time and skill to take on the task with a good case to be made that there is a need...not merely choice...and lack of meeting the educational needs of a blind child is a causal factor. 
>> 
>> Families all over have made many hard choices, including financial ones...moving, staying home, fighting legal battles, taking out loans and becoming a Teacher of blind students...in order for their child to have a proper normal expectation education. Families also make these kinds of choices over many other disabilities, or even bullying issues or health or religious belief.....or even just taking a financial hit to have one parent home and available...but again those are choices. The only forgiveness on loans that I am aware of are more of a trade...you give something like military service or teaching in a poor underprivileged area for a number of years. No one knows what is in their future when they take out the loans. Some people get cancer, some have a spouse or child die, they become disabled themselves....loans are not forgiven...or they might all have to be.
>> 
>> You seem to understand that blindness is not a greater hardship, and indeed many here, myself included would rise and heartily debate whether it was a hardship at all....or being a parent of a blind child either....now getting a free and appropriate education for a blind child does indeed present many hardships...but people are able to do it and meet their financial obligations. maybe they have to give up something else, like a nicer car...but they do it. 
>> 
>> I did not call you any names, or accuse you of a thing...so I am unsure why you feel this list is not now a "safe" place. 
>> 
>> i think it not an unfair question to ask why you think it would or should be a basis for loan forgiveness.  Also think it helpful for you in the long run to realize that many, many, are or would be offended at the question. Offended? Why? This might make a fine, albiet possibly controversial, article....when is "using blindness" to get something free appropriate and even justified and when is it not? in fact i believe Dr. tenBroek and likely Jernigan and Mr. maurer have spoken in speeches on it already...and perhaps someone knows of a link...
>> 
>> Meanwhile, you are just a very loving and good Mom wanting to do the very best for your blind child and have some deep possibly desperate feelings of financial hardship...and were hoping for just a simple yes there are or no there are not answer....without what you possibly feel is judgement or a lecture. I am saying this is a teaching moment for you. This topic will come up in your lives, over and over....will you raise a child who looks for special (UN-NEEDED) treatment just because of blindness or one who only accepts help (due to blindness) that makes access and equal opportunity or is in the normal course of being human. your child will follow your lead. How would you explain the rationale for loan forgiveness for you, for choices made long before because now your child is blind...to your grown child? I am telling you sometimes that line or free or not....the cost of a gift...can get tricky. i am sorry you felt put off or hurt or judged or something like that by my response. i speak all this in love Natae, I really do. ask anyone who knows me :)
>> carrie
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Dec 5, 2012, at 4:47 PM, Natae Jones-Beasley <nataejones at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Carrie,      I was hoping my question wouldn't get taken this way.       Yes, you are right.  I did make those decisions to educate myself in that matter.  However, at the time, I envisioned a full-time, working career (which I did have) until... retirement?  I thought this list-serve was a safe place to ask anything.  I know there are loan forgiveness programs for various things/experiences, so I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask other parents (I more specially thought, "It would be more appropriate to ask about loan forgiveness for something to do with "special needs"', but I felt safe to simply say blindness, because I was asking in a community of blindness.  I do not consider my child's blindness, or other health issues, a setback or a "special need", he's our regular little awesome guy!)  My child was the deciding factor for me to resign from my job and stay-at-home (not due to his blindness, but health-related issues and what goes with that).  As many of you know, staying home is the biggest blessing and I wouldn't have it any other way, but the unfortunate truth is that financially, it can be a struggle.  (I know we are so blessed to even make that option work- to even have a "struggle"- so I can't complain!)  When it comes to homeschooling, I live in a very rural area, and I have heard nothing great about our local school systems and their education of the visually impaired.  So, I do not feel like work is anywhere in my near future.  I know my staying home is what this family needs.          I was just seeking information, for any input that might possibly benefit my little family, that is all.  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
>>>> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 13:54:30 -0600
>>>> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Question about Student Loan Forgiveness for Parent
>>>> 
>>>> I would respectfully inquire....what does choosing to take loans to acquire several chosen degrees and then choosing not to use them because you choose to stay home and homeschool your child have to do with blindness or being the parent of having a blind child ...all in order to receive massive funds to ease or erase a debt by choice from school by choice? I myself really cannot imagine. All these things are choices of a personal nature not caused or necessarily burdened by being a parent of a blind child.
>>>> Carrie
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>> 
>>>> On Dec 4, 2012, at 9:39 PM, Carlton Anne Cook Walker <nopbcpres at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello all:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I received the following email, and I couldn't answer the question posed.
>>>>> I offered to share the query with the list.  Please send answers to the
>>>>> list as well as to Natae.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carlton
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: nataejones at hotmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  Is there any type of student loan forgiveness program for parents of
>>>>> blind children?  I have 3 degrees that I am repaying and do not intend to
>>>>> use for a long time- now that I am staying home with (and plan to
>>>>> homeschool) my son.
>>>>>   Any info is appreciated!  I have searched myself, but haven't found
>>>>> anything.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  Thanks!
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carlton Anne Cook Walker
>>>>> President, National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
>>>>> 105 Creamery Road
>>>>> Boiling Springs, PA   17007
>>>>> Voice: 717-658-9894
>>>>> Twitter: braillemom
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