[blindkid] Now IEPs

Tue Feb 26 02:14:41 UTC 2013

Agree with everything you say here. I would have loved to have a 504
in high school, too. I stopped needing academic instruction from the
TVI by middle school, and most of my high school TVI time was spent
sitting and chatting. I wonder how many other students she could have
served during that time if she had not been mandated by the IEP to
spend time with me doing basically nothing. And if I had had a halfway
decent O&M experience in  elementary school, hopefully I wouldn't have
needed ongoing travel instruction either.
Also, many educational psychologists would argue that every child's
educational needs are different, regardless of whether or not they
have a "special need". Sighted kids, who read and write in the same
alphabet, may still differ in what learning modality is best for them,
how much practice they need to master a concept in various subject
areas, how long they can hold an attention span, etc. Should every
single student have an IEP? Maybe, if it weren't so unwieldy to put
into practice. On the other hand, regular education is set up so that
all students meet certain standards. I was intrigued by a discussion
during the general session at NFB convention this past year, where a
few people suggested that the emphasis on individualization in IDEA
promotes the loss of standardization and a justification  for dumbing
down the expectations to which students are held. Finally, I agree
that over-accommodation and over-servicing can be just as dangerous as
the opposite. Unfortunately I don't think it's the IEP process that
can be blamed for either over- or under-accommodation, but the
attitudes and preconceptions of members of the IEP team, and getting
rid of the IEP process won't change that.
Arielle

On 2/25/13, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well somehow I feel the reaction to this comparison Heather made, and my
> responses, has gotten quite dramatic and I feel as if we might have said
> "Everyone! chuck your IEP's and run naked through the woods." Again I cannot
> speak for or clarify Heather's own words...but mine and my agreement with it
> as she had Said them herself. it is not the above charge to action.
>
> It could not be helpful to attempt to cover the entire history of education
> for blind children and the movement to the public school system en masse
> after the 1950's and the new inclusion of children (some of them with
> "modern" disabilities due to environment or greatly advanced medicine so
> they survived things like birth or car accident or illness where they did
> not before)paralleling that timeline who had every conceivable "special
> need"...and the need for protections in the law and an ordered plan that
> could meet the vast vast differences in each disability or medical condition
> that affected learning...but perhaps enough so it is understood that I get
> it. And make no mistake, I appreciate the laws, legal protections, and
> serious well intentioned attempts to include each child and prepare them to
> enter the world ready to function to their full potentials via IEPs.
>
> It remains however a fact, that the process has many flaws. yes the process
> itself. the law has weak points. the IEP is not the Holy Grail. Normalcy, or
> fulfilling your potential is. is the IEP in most or many cases the best way
> to get what you need and ensure you keep it in our current system? yes. is
> it the best possible way? maybe not. does it fail time and time again due to
> prejudice, ignorance, poor training, incompetence, lack of funding? yes.
> does it sometimes go very well at school but no one carries it through at
> home? Yes, many times yes.
>
> If a child has been blind all along, is totally proficient...reading Braille
> at the top of their class...and age appropriate IN EVERY WAY....life
> skill...they take part in every chore and self care at home, have tons of
> variable independent travel experience...travel as well as their sighted
> peers, use technology and can problem solve independently...in other words
> as no need whatsoever of INSTRUCTION...but only accommodation...there are
> real positive reasons to go to a 504...
>
> If someone was having success there I would not automatically counsel them
> out of it (IEP).but I would encourage any parent of a child who was ONLY
> blind...that even if the IEP is kept ( meaning you have to have some goals
> and instruction even if minimal) even if
> Only for the reason of the "extra legal" protection...altho it is my
> understanding by a former RSA Commissioner and the Dept. of Ed that the 504
> 's legal protections are real and just as strong for what they are
> for...anyway I would encourage those parents to work AS IF they were only on
> a 504...meaning there is almost nothing to the IEP...except
> accommodations...BECAUSE YOU HAVE REACHED A POINT WHERE THE CHILD IS AGE
> APPROPRIATE AND NEEDS NO INSTRUCTION IN "Specialized" Skill.
>
> By the time my son was a sophomore in high school he should have had no
> need...maybe even years before...NO NEED of specialized instruction...and he
> was almost there.
> He himself found his own schedule and teacher names when the schedules came
> out as did all his sighted peers. He himself contacted and made appointments
> with those teachers to introduce himself and make them aware of what he
> needed and did not. he then met with them alone. he himself contacted
> teachers to get the ISBN numbers for texts and work packets and ordered all
> his own materials...ALL. On a weekly basis HE put the next week's
> assignments from the teachers into the Braillist's mailbox. He needed no
> further training on any technology, he knew Kurweill, how to scan,
> BrailleNote.uses a CCTV..etc....and also if he did not know he knew where to
> go to get the information and when something worked or did not and what to
> do when one thing failed (BrailleNote dies in lecture...take out Braille
> paper and slate and stylus)... he was traveling all over Minneapolis, had
> flown independently several times...used cabs independently...he was even
> ahead of many of his sighted peers in independent travel experience
> Capable of every household chore, could cook as well as any of his siblings
> at same age....etc etc....the only reason we kept an IEP was because they
> had failed and robbed him of proper education for his first decade of
> school...all his competent instruction came from outside private (NFB) and
> home as we battled inside...then all he had left was his reading speed...and
> finally his junior year a TBS rose up in our district and agreed to "coach"
> him on speed and college reading /study and test taking skills... and to
> openly cheer BRAILLE and a belief in him. Seriously her attitude was in the
> IEP. so he saw her for that 2x a week before school for 30 minutes.
> he should have been ready for a 504... His senior year we sort of "made up"
> a goal after wracking our brain just to keep that extra legal net I was
> paranoid to let go of because of the very horrible experiences and failures
> in the system we had been through.  Know others who did not need that extra
> net feeling who had better early experiences and had been fully supported by
> local systems. the people I cringe for most are those who believe in the IEP
> as savior and as possible to meet all the needs of a blind child, even a
> good one. Again, i said as a SAVIOR. and lastly...I wish I had let it go at
> least  His last year...because of his swelling pride, sense of I am REALLY
> just like any other student here except for ACCESS is different than
> majority.i do not need SPECIAL instruction or a "SPecial" teacher...and the
> truth is, if they had done their jobs in elementary and early middle school,
> he should not have needed further INSTRUCTION beyond what any other student
> needed by high school.
>
> He graduates from a Big Ten University this spring. he already knew how to
> get his textbooks, speak with and arrange with the Disability service office
> for his test and course material accommodations, how to self advocate to his
> state office of blindservices vocational counselor and keep communicating
> need, receipts, bills, grades...speak with professors about his blindness
> and how to get course syllabi ...or attempt to get it ahead for
> brailling...what to do when course material is not accessible...all on his
> own...it was not all new the first day of college he had been doing that for
> a couple of years already. so now he is in real life...
>
> Carrie
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Chantel Alberhasky <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't think IEPs are necessary evils so I don't agree that we need to
>> work toward ensuring kids don't need IEPs.   Children with educational
>> disabilities have unique needs and I would argue it is in everyone's best
>> interest for there to be a written contract so everyone (school and
>> parents) agree as to what specialized instructions and services the child
>> needs to receive educational benefit and so there is no misunderstanding
>> as to how to accommodate the student's unique needs.  No two students are
>> alike just as no two IEPs should be the same.
>> As for those who made it through school without an IEP, if they did so and
>> received Braille instruction then it must have been before 1997.  In any
>> event, I would argue every blind child needs an IEP because they need
>> specialized instruction.   I cringe when I hear parents of blind children
>> mention their child only has a Section 504 plan.
>> Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
>> 419 Boonville Avenue
>> Springfield, MO 65806
>> 417.865.4444
>>
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>>
>> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Now IEPs
>> To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 1:47 PM
>>
>> Dear Trudy,
>> Again I can't speak for Heather, or anyone, but I of course understand the
>> current and likely in our lifetimes need for IDEA, and IEP process and
>> existence in general. and I think heather does too. That is not to say we
>> do not wish or work for it to be out of date as no longer needed...or to
>> fail to address the many  problems within that process, some of which seem
>> inherent, and also to acknowledge that not a few have indeed had NO IEP
>> whatsoever and that has been appropriate and best because there was no
>> need...and some have chosen the 504 path. in my advocacy I never did find
>> a case personally in practice where I recommended chuck the IEP because
>> terrific advocacy and legal reinforcement was indeed required...but i do
>> know of not a few blind adults who did not have or need such a thing. And
>> wouldn't that be nice...and isn't that our Ultimate goal?
>> Crrie
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Trudy Pickrel <tlpickrel at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Heather and Carri
>>>
>>> I may be coming in at the end of a discussion as usual but I think one
>>> thought that is missing is the fact that we as advocates for our children
>>> know and hold the counties to the needs of our children. But I know from
>>> advocating for many children as the State President of the POBC IN MD.
>>> There are so many children that would not get service Braille or even a
>>> basic cane training if it were not for a IEP process.
>>>
>>> Trudy L Pickrel
>>> President MD Parents Blind Children
>>>
>>>
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