[blindkid] Now IEPs

Tue Feb 26 12:04:57 UTC 2013

Hi Arielle and all,
I also that I need and IEP when I was in high school I believe now that I would have benefited more from a 504 plan in high school rather then an IEP because like Arielle all most time I was spent will the TVI was chatting.
Jess

Sent from Samsung mobile

Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:

>Agree with everything you say here. I would have loved to have a 504
>in high school, too. I stopped needing academic instruction from the
>TVI by middle school, and most of my high school TVI time was spent
>sitting and chatting. I wonder how many other students she could have
>served during that time if she had not been mandated by the IEP to
>spend time with me doing basically nothing. And if I had had a halfway
>decent O&M experience in  elementary school, hopefully I wouldn't have
>needed ongoing travel instruction either.
>Also, many educational psychologists would argue that every child's
>educational needs are different, regardless of whether or not they
>have a "special need". Sighted kids, who read and write in the same
>alphabet, may still differ in what learning modality is best for them,
>how much practice they need to master a concept in various subject
>areas, how long they can hold an attention span, etc. Should every
>single student have an IEP? Maybe, if it weren't so unwieldy to put
>into practice. On the other hand, regular education is set up so that
>all students meet certain standards. I was intrigued by a discussion
>during the general session at NFB convention this past year, where a
>few people suggested that the emphasis on individualization in IDEA
>promotes the loss of standardization and a justification  for dumbing
>down the expectations to which students are held. Finally, I agree
>that over-accommodation and over-servicing can be just as dangerous as
>the opposite. Unfortunately I don't think it's the IEP process that
>can be blamed for either over- or under-accommodation, but the
>attitudes and preconceptions of members of the IEP team, and getting
>rid of the IEP process won't change that.
>Arielle
>
>On 2/25/13, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Well somehow I feel the reaction to this comparison Heather made, and my
>> responses, has gotten quite dramatic and I feel as if we might have said
>> "Everyone! chuck your IEP's and run naked through the woods." Again I cannot
>> speak for or clarify Heather's own words...but mine and my agreement with it
>> as she had Said them herself. it is not the above charge to action.
>>
>> It could not be helpful to attempt to cover the entire history of education
>> for blind children and the movement to the public school system en masse
>> after the 1950's and the new inclusion of children (some of them with
>> "modern" disabilities due to environment or greatly advanced medicine so
>> they survived things like birth or car accident or illness where they did
>> not before)paralleling that timeline who had every conceivable "special
>> need"...and the need for protections in the law and an ordered plan that
>> could meet the vast vast differences in each disability or medical condition
>> that affected learning...but perhaps enough so it is understood that I get
>> it. And make no mistake, I appreciate the laws, legal protections, and
>> serious well intentioned attempts to include each child and prepare them to
>> enter the world ready to function to their full potentials via IEPs.
>>
>> It remains however a fact, that the process has many flaws. yes the process
>> itself. the law has weak points. the IEP is not the Holy Grail. Normalcy, or
>> fulfilling your potential is. is the IEP in most or many cases the best way
>> to get what you need and ensure you keep it in our current system? yes. is
>> it the best possible way? maybe not. does it fail time and time again due to
>> prejudice, ignorance, poor training, incompetence, lack of funding? yes.
>> does it sometimes go very well at school but no one carries it through at
>> home? Yes, many times yes.
>>
>> If a child has been blind all along, is totally proficient...reading Braille
>> at the top of their class...and age appropriate IN EVERY WAY....life
>> skill...they take part in every chore and self care at home, have tons of
>> variable independent travel experience...travel as well as their sighted
>> peers, use technology and can problem solve independently...in other words
>> as no need whatsoever of INSTRUCTION...but only accommodation...there are
>> real positive reasons to go to a 504...
>>
>> If someone was having success there I would not automatically counsel them
>> out of it (IEP).but I would encourage any parent of a child who was ONLY
>> blind...that even if the IEP is kept ( meaning you have to have some goals
>> and instruction even if minimal) even if
>> Only for the reason of the "extra legal" protection...altho it is my
>> understanding by a former RSA Commissioner and the Dept. of Ed that the 504
>> 's legal protections are real and just as strong for what they are
>> for...anyway I would encourage those parents to work AS IF they were only on
>> a 504...meaning there is almost nothing to the IEP...except
>> accommodations...BECAUSE YOU HAVE REACHED A POINT WHERE THE CHILD IS AGE
>> APPROPRIATE AND NEEDS NO INSTRUCTION IN "Specialized" Skill.
>>
>> By the time my son was a sophomore in high school he should have had no
>> need...maybe even years before...NO NEED of specialized instruction...and he
>> was almost there.
>> He himself found his own schedule and teacher names when the schedules came
>> out as did all his sighted peers. He himself contacted and made appointments
>> with those teachers to introduce himself and make them aware of what he
>> needed and did not. he then met with them alone. he himself contacted
>> teachers to get the ISBN numbers for texts and work packets and ordered all
>> his own materials...ALL. On a weekly basis HE put the next week's
>> assignments from the teachers into the Braillist's mailbox. He needed no
>> further training on any technology, he knew Kurweill, how to scan,
>> BrailleNote.uses a CCTV..etc....and also if he did not know he knew where to
>> go to get the information and when something worked or did not and what to
>> do when one thing failed (BrailleNote dies in lecture...take out Braille
>> paper and slate and stylus)... he was traveling all over Minneapolis, had
>> flown independently several times...used cabs independently...he was even
>> ahead of many of his sighted peers in independent travel experience
>> Capable of every household chore, could cook as well as any of his siblings
>> at same age....etc etc....the only reason we kept an IEP was because they
>> had failed and robbed him of proper education for his first decade of
>> school...all his competent instruction came from outside private (NFB) and
>> home as we battled inside...then all he had left was his reading speed...and
>> finally his junior year a TBS rose up in our district and agreed to "coach"
>> him on speed and college reading /study and test taking skills... and to
>> openly cheer BRAILLE and a belief in him. Seriously her attitude was in the
>> IEP. so he saw her for that 2x a week before school for 30 minutes.
>> he should have been ready for a 504... His senior year we sort of "made up"
>> a goal after wracking our brain just to keep that extra legal net I was
>> paranoid to let go of because of the very horrible experiences and failures
>> in the system we had been through.  Know others who did not need that extra
>> net feeling who had better early experiences and had been fully supported by
>> local systems. the people I cringe for most are those who believe in the IEP
>> as savior and as possible to meet all the needs of a blind child, even a
>> good one. Again, i said as a SAVIOR. and lastly...I wish I had let it go at
>> least  His last year...because of his swelling pride, sense of I am REALLY
>> just like any other student here except for ACCESS is different than
>> majority.i do not need SPECIAL instruction or a "SPecial" teacher...and the
>> truth is, if they had done their jobs in elementary and early middle school,
>> he should not have needed further INSTRUCTION beyond what any other student
>> needed by high school.
>>
>> He graduates from a Big Ten University this spring. he already knew how to
>> get his textbooks, speak with and arrange with the Disability service office
>> for his test and course material accommodations, how to self advocate to his
>> state office of blindservices vocational counselor and keep communicating
>> need, receipts, bills, grades...speak with professors about his blindness
>> and how to get course syllabi ...or attempt to get it ahead for
>> brailling...what to do when course material is not accessible...all on his
>> own...it was not all new the first day of college he had been doing that for
>> a couple of years already. so now he is in real life...
>>
>> Carrie
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 3:11 PM, Chantel Alberhasky <chantel at alberhaskylaw.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I don't think IEPs are necessary evils so I don't agree that we need to
>>> work toward ensuring kids don't need IEPs.   Children with educational
>>> disabilities have unique needs and I would argue it is in everyone's best
>>> interest for there to be a written contract so everyone (school and
>>> parents) agree as to what specialized instructions and services the child
>>> needs to receive educational benefit and so there is no misunderstanding
>>> as to how to accommodate the student's unique needs.  No two students are
>>> alike just as no two IEPs should be the same.
>>> As for those who made it through school without an IEP, if they did so and
>>> received Braille instruction then it must have been before 1997.  In any
>>> event, I would argue every blind child needs an IEP because they need
>>> specialized instruction.   I cringe when I hear parents of blind children
>>> mention their child only has a Section 504 plan.
>>> Chantel L. Alberhasky, Esq
>>> 419 Boonville Avenue
>>> Springfield, MO 65806
>>> 417.865.4444
>>>
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>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 2/25/13, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Now IEPs
>>> To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
>>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
>>> Date: Monday, February 25, 2013, 1:47 PM
>>>
>>> Dear Trudy,
>>> Again I can't speak for Heather, or anyone, but I of course understand the
>>> current and likely in our lifetimes need for IDEA, and IEP process and
>>> existence in general. and I think heather does too. That is not to say we
>>> do not wish or work for it to be out of date as no longer needed...or to
>>> fail to address the many  problems within that process, some of which seem
>>> inherent, and also to acknowledge that not a few have indeed had NO IEP
>>> whatsoever and that has been appropriate and best because there was no
>>> need...and some have chosen the 504 path. in my advocacy I never did find
>>> a case personally in practice where I recommended chuck the IEP because
>>> terrific advocacy and legal reinforcement was indeed required...but i do
>>> know of not a few blind adults who did not have or need such a thing. And
>>> wouldn't that be nice...and isn't that our Ultimate goal?
>>> Crrie
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2013, at 12:41 PM, Trudy Pickrel <tlpickrel at hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Heather and Carri
>>>>
>>>> I may be coming in at the end of a discussion as usual but I think one
>>>> thought that is missing is the fact that we as advocates for our children
>>>> know and hold the counties to the needs of our children. But I know from
>>>> advocating for many children as the State President of the POBC IN MD.
>>>> There are so many children that would not get service Braille or even a
>>>> basic cane training if it were not for a IEP process.
>>>>
>>>> Trudy L Pickrel
>>>> President MD Parents Blind Children
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>
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