[blindkid] Signs for Susan

Rene Harrell rjharrell at gmail.com
Wed Feb 27 01:10:38 UTC 2013


Richard,

I think you did an excellent job of outlining risks and concerns. :) I
simply struggle with understanding how it translates in the practical
reality of a sign. Unless your child is carrying a cane, her disability is
INVISIBLE to the drivers coming down the road. They have no way to discern
if your child is the Blind one that the sign refers to, or whether or not
to treat every child walking down the road as if they might be the blind
one. All they know is that there might be a blind child in the area but
without a way of identifying a blind child, there is no way for them to see
a 10 year old walking down the street and prepare themselves for the chance
they might veer off into the road unexpectedly. As a driver then, I am not
looking at your 10 year old and being any more careful about them than I
would for any other ten year old, even with the "Blind Child" sign.

If your child is carrying a cane, then I don't need a Blind Child sign to
recognize that your child is blind and to be extra vigilant about her
crossing the road. Everywhere Clare goes with her cane, and when we are
crossing roads, when drivers see that she is carrying a cane they assume
the responsibility of being more aware of themselves and their driving.
Most of them probably have no idea that white cane laws exist. This is how
we safely navigate areas with no such sign in sight.

Same thing with "deaf child" and "autistic child" signs. When there is no
way to actually differentiate the child who is the reason for the sign, you
have no way discernible way to know for whom to be vigilant *for*. The sign
then actually provides no benefit if you can't figure out *who* it is that
is requiring this caution. If I see a 10 year old walking by the "deaf
child sign" but he doesn't "appear" deaf to me, then I am not going to
presume he's deaf.

I am not meaning to insult any one for choosing to use such a sign, and I
don't think any one needs to feel guilty, shamed, or browbeaten for
choosing to something they believe protects their child's safety,  nor
needs to apologize for it. That was in no way the intent of my original
post on this topic, and I apologize if my words came across in that manner.
When determining this for ourselves, I ultimately concluded that people may
not be able to identify my blind child if she were outside without her
cane, but people CAN readily identify children. As I happen to have six
young children, it is far more practical that people know to keep aware for
little ones in general than my blind child in specific, and with her cane
she would require no extra explanation that she is blind. Therefore, when
the town wanted to put up a "BLIND CHILD" sign we declined, but my when
across the street neighbor told me that he shifted a couple of signs he put
up around my next door neighbor's house back when they had four small kids
so that they encompassed my house, I smiled and said "thank you". As it is,
we live on the corner of a half-forgotten street that dead ends into an
even smaller and more forgotten street with only four additional houses.
The road is so narrow that only one car can be on it at a time and if there
are two cars going in opposite directions, one needs to pull off in a
neighbor's yard for the other one to pass by. We have a couple of teenagers
in the back who like to hot-rod their way down the road and have friends
who like to do the same, but they know us personally because the
neighborhood is incredibly small, and they keep a watchful eye for my kids
in our yard. I think in reality, even the "Children at Play" sign does
nothing practical, but as they were already there, I saw no harm in keeping
them.

Rene--- mom to six amazing kids, including Miss Clare age 11 (ROP) and
Seraphina, 8 months (ONH)
On Tue, Feb 26, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org>wrote:

> Amen and testify Richard. Great post.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindkid [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Richard
> Holloway
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:05 PM
> To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Signs for Susan
>
> Steve, I appreciate your question. I'm happy to discuss these matters.
>
> Purely from a driver's standpoint, I expect different reactions from
> different situations in a driving environment. In that specific example,
> certainly, if the kids were going to be playing, particularly in a location
> where there were limited range of vision for a driver, either sign would be
> appropriate and helpful. In that specific case, kids are indeed playing.
> If,
> as a driver, you're in an alert status, looking for either "kids at play",
> or a "blind child" you'll probably react safely, so in that case I suggest
> either sign might be helpful.
>
> Now, put a blind child near the street in a yard or on a sidewalk. I might
> actually expect ANY two-year-old to dart in any direction virtually
> randomly, so I would slow down, especially if I didn't see an adult holding
> such a child's hand. But make the child a bit older. 5 or 6 perhaps. A kid
> that age, I believe, would be less likely to jump out in traffic. By that
> age, I more expect kids to be chasing balls without looking, but otherwise
> reasonably attentive. Blind kids at that age, or at least my blind daughter
> was probably MORE likely to bolt into the street than at a more docile age
> 2
> or 3. By 6 or 7, she was much more driven to abrupt movement, yet not at
> all
> clear about the concept of cars coming down the street.
>
> Now as a 4th grader, my daughter is perhaps slightly less likely to do
> something abrupt than at age 6, but still FAR more likely than her sighted
> peers to walk arbitrarily into the street if she looses her bearings. This
> sort of situation is NOT what "child at play" brings to mind.
>
> When driving, if I see a 10 or 12-year-old walking in a straight line
> across
> the street, I would not anticipate the child making a sharp turn or
> reversal. Most sighted kids I know don't generally do that. My blind
> 10-year-old daughter certainly might. Again, from a car driver's
> perspective, my daughter's behavior is not what is typical from a child her
> age. A confused driver is, in my opinion, a good deal more likely do do
> something dangerous in that sort of situation. I think knowing she's blind,
> might keep her safer from that driver, if only slightly so.
>
> Most important to me, again, as a driver, I often make eye contact or
> exchange gestures with people on the road. I don't know how universal that
> is. Maybe it is a regional thing. Down south, we wave to say "thanks" when
> a
> driver lets us merge in front of them, and in fact failing to wave is often
> taken as an insult. We wave people-- both kids and adults, across the
> street
> all the time, or the pedestrian may wave off the driver. The exchange is a
> very visual business. I slow down sometimes and wait for eye contact to
> feel
> as sure as I can that I'm aware of a pedestrian's intention. Well if you
> "make eye contact with my daughter" what you inferred isn't going to be
> very
> accurate. I can just imagine the later discussion-- "I saw her, she looked
> right AT me, then she walked right in front of my car!!! I had no idea she
> couldn't see me! I'm so sorry!!!" I feel ill at just the notion. That's
> what
> I want to avoid with such signs. "Child at Play" is no help there.
>
> In my opinion, in my situation here, I think that if we were not on SUCH a
> quiet street, I would have already requested signs to protect my daughter
> and minimize potential driver frustration, however, our street is really
> VERY quiet, and we watch our daughter very carefully.
>
> With that said, she's old enough that at some point, I'm going to have to
> give her a little more freedom near the road. If I decide she's not 100%
> safe, I reserve the right to request such a sign. I don't want a lot of
> flack if I do so.
>
> As I think I mentioned before, I feel like a deaf child could easily react
> differently as well. If the parents of a deaf child are worried the child
> won't hear certain sounds and it puts them at increased risk, from a
> driver's standpoint, I like to know that someone won't react to the warning
> of a horn, for example. In that case, I'd prefer a "deaf child" sign. The
> information is more specific; more useful to keep the child safe.
>
> The differences are subtle, but important. I think this is a personal
> choice
> for each parent, and it really concerns me that pressure of any kind is
> being exerted by others to avoid somehow casting aspersions on the blind
> population by requesting these signs.
>
> With that said, I also think this is a personal choice for a blind adult as
> well-- a choice the adult makes for himself, mind you. I think what
> happened
> in Colorado was really inappropriate, because others were deciding this for
> the blind travelers. That doesn't mean if some adults feel safer with these
> signs in place that they should be prevented because it reflects poorly on
> those who don't want the signs. If others disagree, but I feel it is pest
> to
> err to the side of caution.
>
> The social connection you mention is great. If added safety, no matter how
> little it may be, from the sign helps some parents feel slightly more
> comfortable letting kids have a little more freedom to play or otherwise go
> about their business, that does indeed increase the chance for these very
> important connections.
>
> I will add one thing more as well. After giving this a lot of thought, I
> think such signs do one thing more. After more than 10 years of observing
> and watching reactions to the "what are you doing letting your blind child
> go and do dangerous things like that" mentality-- crazy things like riding
> a
> bike, jumping into a pool without a sighted helper holding onto her,
> playing
> in and around trampolines, running across the yard, going to gymnastics
> classes or yoga classes... maybe some of us like the idea of telling others
> that our kids may be out there and we know it, and they have every right to
> be there, yet we'd appreciate it if they'd be just a little bit extra
> careful in case their behavior or reaction to a passing car is a little
> different. I'm not inviting a great debate on this matter, and the last
> part
> (this paragraph) is just a thought that recently occurred to me, but I
> think
> maybe there is a touch of truth in that for some of us as well.
>
> Thanks again for the discussion.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Richard
>
> On Feb 26, 2013, at 2:09 PM, Steve Jacobson wrote:
>
> > Richard,
> >
> > While you and I seem to disagree on this, I would truly like to
> > understand your position better.  Are you really saying that the
> > two-year-old sighted kids that are racing with her child are totally
> > responsible and in need of no protection?  If there is no separation
> > between the street and where these kids are playing, I do not see how
> > a blind child is going to be at a greater risk, there is some risk for
> > all of them and a warning that there are children at play is probably
> appropriate.  Connecting her ability to get a sign with the child's
> opportunity to play with other kids completely baffles me.  .  The solution
> isn't in the sign, it is in making the social connections, and I, too, am
> glad to see that Susan's child, certainly with her help, made those
> connections, but I truly do not see that a sign is necessary to make that
> possible.  Have I misunderstood your note?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve Jacobson
> >
> > On Mon, 25 Feb 2013 23:09:07 -0500, Richard Holloway wrote:
> >
> >> Susan,
> >
> >> I don't see anything wrong with requesting such a sign for your child
> >> at that age, or at any age where you, the parent, feel it
> > is appropriate.
> >
> >> You did a good thing. More parents should find solutions to get their
> >> kids, be they sighted or blind, out and playing in
> > situations like that!
> >
> >> (How I wish they'd had jeeps like that when I was a kid!!!)
> >
> >> Richard
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 25, 2013, at 8:39 PM, SUSAN POLANSKY wrote:
> >
> >>> We moved on to a dead end court when our son was 2. We asked our
> >>> town for a sign at the entrance to the street. I feel it was
> > totally appropriate to have a sign when our little one was out playing
> > with the other kids and basically drag racing the other little ones in
> > his toddler jeep. Would we not have asked for a sign if he had been
> > older. Each parent needs to look at their child and their neighborhood
> and
> make their own decision. I think this subject has been beaten to death. No
> more "to sign or not to sign"  emails for me, any more will be deleted
> without opening.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Susan T. Polansky
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Bernadette Jacobs <bernienfb75 at gmail.com>
> >>> To: "Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children)"
> >>> <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 8:11 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] To Sign or not To Sign
> >>>
> >>> I am a very strong opponent of blind, deaf, Autism, or any other
> >>> signage.  None of us needs to be put on that kind of display!  Only
> >>> thing this says to me is, "Walking Target!" Target!" Walking Target.
> >>> When I had my hysterectomy at an inner city hospital here, when I
> >>> came out of surgery and into my room, my husband mentioned to me
> >>> that there was a sign on my door, "Blind Patient!"  If I wasn't sick
> >>> enough from just having had surgery, I sure was sickened then.  So,
> >>> my husband tore down the first sign.  Bright and early next morning
> >>> when he came in vack in to visit me, another signed had replaced the
> >>> first one.  He went out to find that nurse.  Before long, suddenly I
> >>> heard the nurse arguing with my husband.  I forced myself up out of
> >>> bed, grabbed my cane and began walking down the hall, holding onto
> >>> the rails for dear life and simply excused myself quietly and then
> >>> proceeded to waste no bones about how that woman oughtta do
> >>> something real quick.  After all, who was her bread and butta???  I
> >>> had insurance.  I didn't feel guilty in the least.  She turned on me
> >>> and I simply went back to my room; called my doctor at his home; and
> >>> Hmmm!  For some strange reason I never heard from or saw that woman
> >>> again and the sign soon disappeared.  Then when someone called weeks
> >>> after I had been released from the hospital to ask me about how I
> >>> felt about my hospital experience, I really laid it on thick that to
> >>> post blind signs, or any other Special Needs' sign, would only serve
> >>> to identify those individuals as vulnerable walking targets and no
> >>> matter what the intent, it was truly a bad idea.  After all, Seems I
> >>> actually remember Dr. Jernigan saying once, that "The road to Hell
> >>> is paved with good intentions."  I'm sure I need not say more.
> >>>
> >>> Bernie
> >>>
> >>> On 2/22/13, Carly B <barnesraiser at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Hi Merry-Noel,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've thought about this, too. There are a couple of signs on
> >>>> streets near our own. We have not pursued trying to get a sign for
> >>>> our neighborhood. I haven't really thought that through, I think
> >>>> it's just a gut feeling that I don't want to put more of a spotlight
> on
> my child than there already is.
> >>>> Know what I mean? I'm not really sure the benefits of having a sign...
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for bringing it up. I look forward to hearing what others
> think!
> >>>>
> >>>> :) Carolynn
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Merry-Noel Chamberlain
> >>>> <owinm at yahoo.com>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   Hi,
> >>>>> My daughter, Ashleah, is working on a girl scout project and would
> >>>>> like to know your thoughts about the "Special Needs" sign.  She is
> >>>>> blind and walks to and from school independently.  Do you think
> >>>>> having a Special Needs sign by our house is a good thing?  Why or
> >>>>> why not?
> >>>>> Thanks.
> >>>>> Merry-Noel
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