[blindkid] ADA Question
Dan Burke
dburke at cocenter.org
Thu Mar 13 15:47:59 UTC 2014
They're supposed to be on the wall beside the door handle, no higher than 60 inches.
That as Richard points out, can be an issue for children in K-12.
They should not be on the door itself, though they sometimes end up right in the middle of public restroom doors. It can prove a bit awkward.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindkid [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of hpscheffer at aol.com
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 9:28 AM
To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [blindkid] ADA Question
Good info!!! sending it to our School District now!
Thanks
Heidi
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Denise M Robinson <deniserob at gmail.com>
To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) <blindkid at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thu, Mar 13, 2014 11:24 am
Subject: Re: [blindkid] ADA Question
They are SUPPOSED to be in the same place on buildings.--great site for this info--Braille signs <http://www.allstatesign.com/ada_mounting.html>
"To comply with the ADA, user must follow ADA guidelines. "...signs shall be installed on the wall adjacent to the latch side of the door. Where there is no wall space to the latch side of the door, including at double leaf doors, signs shall be placed on the nearest adjacent wall. Mounting height shall be 60 inches above the finish floor to the centerline of the sign. Mounting location for such signage shall be so that a person may approach within 3 inches of signage without encountering protruding objects or standing within the swing of a door."
*Dr Denise*
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
CEO, TechVision, LLC
Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision Private training to your needs
423-573-6413
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:05 AM, <hpscheffer at aol.com> wrote:
> On this issue, is there a specific place where a blind person might
> find the braille signs? how can they find it, do they have to feel
> around until they do? unless they are consistently in just one place,
> i.e. on the right side of a door, or on the door, I can't see my
> daughter spending time looking for them, but there might be a strategy?
> Thanks
> Heidi
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Holloway <rholloway at gopbc.org>
> To: Blind Kid Mailing List, (for parents of blind children) <
> blindkid at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 12, 2014 11:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [blindkid] ADA Question Re: Music camp? Another alternative!
>
>
> Carol, I agree that compliance is very important, but it does seem to
> beg the
> question: Exactly when is a facility in compliance or out?
>
> No Braille and they are clearly not in compliance-- that seems simple
> enough.
>
> Put dymo labels by every doorway. In compliance now? Or must it be
> permanent?
> (How permanent IS permanent?)
>
> "Temporary" dymo tape with a promise to get "proper" signage later?--
> that's what we got. Seemed reasonable-- at least for the first year or
> so. We have been told for year after year that "the county" has agreed
> to replace the signage.
> They
> are going to do so "soon"... Maintenance has promised.... It is on
> their
list....
>
> How many dymo labels have to come down to be "out of compliance"?
> And if they make a decent effort (whatever that actually means) to
> keep replacing the dymo tape as it gets pulled down-- does that count?
>
> What about the other end of the spectrum-- what if you have seemingly
> permanent signs but the braille dots start falling out? (Or if other
> defects
> appear.) In
> compliance? I suspect not, but now get the BoEd to accept this to be true.
> (I'm
> not making this up-- we saw a whole school filled with such defective
> signs
> recently.) How many signs have to loose how much braille before they
> are out of compliance? And who is going to notice this before a blind
> person is there and needs the signs to be working?
>
> Maybe our issues are rare. I wonder how many others have dymo tape
> plastered all over their school hallways in lieu of more permanent
> signage.
>
> Another choice issue for younger students (plus most any any
> braille-reading people in wheelchairs) is that by default, places tend
> to put the braille signage up too high for little kids to read. A
> typically-sighted three- or
> four-
> or five-year-old child may be able to read adult-height door numbers
> just fine, but a blind three-year-old's BRAILLE-reading height is
> somewhat more limited, so you end up with dymo-tape duplication down
> lower, or our little kids may just as well have no signage at all. I'd
> need to re-read all the ADA materials, but I wonder if there is a
> stipulation for braille for people too short to read standard
> door-plackard-height. I'm guessing there isn't, but surely since
> pre-K, our daughter has been learning to read door numbers in braille
> in her school. At least as soon as first grade, it was becoming quite
> important for her to have this skill.
>
> And all that aside, are more formal signs the priority to fight over
> when you can't even get textbook issues resolved properly? Don't
> misunderstand me-- I want EVERYTHING my daughter should have in place
> at her school all the time, but reality is we sometimes have to choose
> our battles...
>
> As much as this may seem a black-and-white matter initially, I have
> personally run into an amazing number of shades of grey over a number
> of years...
>
> On Mar 11, 2014, at 10:24 PM, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Carol,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarifications about ADA covering the camp. Going
> > slightly off-topic here, but does ADA mandate Braille signs in
> > school buildings? If so, why do the vast majority of school
> > buildings I've frequented lack Braille signs?
> > Arielle
> >
> > On 3/11/14, Carol Castellano <carol_castellano at verizon.net> wrote:
> >> That is absolutely right. At first parents fight for their child,
> >> but they also must be training the child to stand up for him or
> >> herself. Self-advocacy is a critical skill and knowing our rights
> >> and responsibilities is a part of it. When parents speak about
> >> blindness, laws, and civil rights our kids are listening and
> >> learning. We are teaching them the vocabulary and modeling
> >> attitudes that they can then use to advocate for themselves.
> >>
> >> Carol
> >>
> >> Carol Castellano
> >> Parents of Blind Children-NJ
> >> Director of Programs
> >> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> >> 973-377-0976
> >> carol_castellano at verizon.net
> >> www.blindchildren.org
> >> www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers
> >>
> >> At 07:27 PM 3/11/2014, you wrote:
> >>> Carol, this is great information for parents and students. Those
> >>> of us who are blind adults advocate for ourselves regularly
> >>> because of discrimination and I believe it is a critical skill
> >>> students need to learn. Parents are very important advocates for
> >>> their children but as your sons anddaughters grow up they need to
> >>> participate in and eventually take over advocacy. The Americans
> >>> With Disabilities Act is a very important law that covers us in and out of public schools.
> >>> Please learn all you can about this law and help your children
> >>> understand it.
> >>>
> >>> On 3/11/14, Carol Castellano <carol_castellano at verizon.net> wrote:
> >>>> Summer camps are places of public accommodation that fall under
> >>>> the ADA (except religious camps). They are not allowed to
> >>>> discriminate on the basis of disability. It is against the law.
> >>>> A person who is "otherwise capable," meaning who meets the other
> >>>> qualifications of the camp, such as age or grade or musical
> >>>> interest, cannot be kept out solely on the basis of his or her disability.
> >>>>
> >>>> Often when an entity such as a school or camp is discriminating,
> >>>> those in charge do not realize it. They might think that they
> >>>> are only being practical or ensuring safety. But the law is
> >>>> crystal clear and the camp administration needs to learn that. I
> >>>> have used the phrase, "I'm sure you don't mean to be out of
> >>>> compliance with federal law..." I sometimes mention that the
> >>>> family doesn't WANT to file a complaint with the Office on Civil
> >>>> Rights, but if they have to, they will...
> >>>>
> >>>> Ideally, when a disabled person seeks entrance to this kind of
> >>>> place of public accommodation, a conversation is supposed to take
> >>>> place in which the camp and the parent/disabled person discuss
> >>>> the accommodations or modifications that could be made.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are 3 instances in which the disabled person may be
> >>>> rejected: 1) if acceptance would cause "undue hardship," defined
> >>>> as "significant difficulty or expense;" 2) pose a direct threat
> >>>> to the health or safety of others; or 3) alter the fundamental
> >>>> nature of the program.
> >>>>
> >>>> From a government website http://www.ada.gov/t3hilght.htm :
> >>>>
> >>>> "Safety requirements may be imposed only if they are necessary
> >>>> for the safe operation of a place of public accommodation. They
> >>>> must be based on actual risks and not on mere speculation,
> >>>> stereotypes, or generalizations about individuals with disabilities."
> >>>>
> >>>> "A public accommodation must make reasonable modifications in its
> >>>> policies, practices, and procedures in order to accommodate
> >>>> individuals with disabilities."
> >>>>
> >>>> "A public accommodation must provide auxiliary aids and services
> >>>> when they are necessary to ensure effective communication with
> >>>> individuals with hearing, vision, or speech impairments.
> >>>>
> >>>> "Auxiliary aids" include such services or devices as qualified
> >>>> interpreters, assistive listening headsets, television captioning
> >>>> and decoders, telecommunications devices for deaf persons
> >>>> (TDD's), videotext displays, readers, taped texts, brailled
> >>>> materials, and large print materials."
> >>>>
> >>>> "The auxiliary aid requirement is flexible. For example, a
> >>>> brailled menu is not required, if waiters are instructed to read
> >>>> the menu to blind customers."
> >>>>
> >>>> Other informative websites:
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.pacer.org/publications/adaqa/summer.asp
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.acacamps.org/publicpolicy/ada-revisions
> >>>>
> >>>> Hope this information helps, and GO GET 'EM, Crystal!!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Carol
> >>>>
> >>>> Carol Castellano
> >>>> Parents of Blind Children-NJ
> >>>> Director of Programs
> >>>> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> >>>> 973-377-0976
> >>>> carol_castellano at verizon.net
> >>>> www.blindchildren.org
> >>>> www.nfb.org/parents-and-teachers
> >>>> At 01:32 PM 3/9/2014, you wrote:
> >>>>> I just don't think it is right that they are advertising this
> >>>>> camp at his public school and then depending on the type of
> >>>>> disability, pick and choose who can attend. Why this camp?
> >>>>> Because his Band teacher is teaching at it and many of his
> >>>>> classmates will be attending. Everyone is talking about it. The
> >>>>> teachers made it a topic at his IEP meeting, so public school is
> >>>>> indeed involved in my opinion. How can public school allow
> >>>>> advertisement of a private camp that would discriminate against students with disabilities?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What are the camps concerns? That he won't be able to navigate
> >>>>> the camp, that he won't be able to participate in the
> >>>>> recreational activities, and that the camp cannot meet his
> >>>>> needs. In my opinion, they are afraid of blindness in general
> >>>>> and have little understanding of what it means to be blind. I
> >>>>> feel the camp would love for me to go away, that would make it
> >>>>> easy for them. I understand that in order to get into the "club"
> >>>>> I need to make them feel comfortable and play by their rules.
> >>>>> Most importantly, Ben will be paving the way for another blind
> >>>>> student in the years to come. As someone once said, it is he
> >>>>> opportunity to be equal, and the right to be different. That's what were looking for.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Crystal
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 12:35:21 -0400
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindkid] Music camp? Another alternative!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Eric,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Or should we go head strong into that camp and change
> >>>>>> perspectives and understandings? Thinking being an activist
> >>>>>> for change is a great thing for this young man to champion.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If he is clear about what he is up against, and he is clear
> >>>>>> that there are supports in place to at least let him take that
> >>>>>> chance, pushing the issue may be worth it in the end.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> >>>>>> Founder and CEO
> >>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> >>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> >>>>>> New York, New York 10004
> >>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
> >>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
> >>>>>> one who is doing it."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Like Us on Facebook LinkedIn Twitter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: blindkid [mailto:blindkid-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> >>>>>> Of Eric Calhoun
> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 11:30 PM
> >>>>>> To: blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> Subject: [blindkid] Music camp? Another alternative!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Crystal, Eric, someone who knows Braille Music. Four words for
> >>>>>> this Music
> >>>>>> Camp: Get, out, of, here! They don't want Ben to be
> >>>>>> independent, don't want him there without a chaperone? Could
> >>>>>> we back away from this camp altogether?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Eric
> >>>>>> ..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sighted and blind people, Eric from Los Angeles. Here's where
> >>>>>> you can find me: The all-new Stairs to Heaven Christian Line,
> >>>>>> 712-432-4808, Room 9; the all-new Eric Calhoun Magazine; to
> >>>>>> subscribe, send a message to eric at pmpmail.com, with the subject
> >>>>>> line, "The Eric Calhoun Magazine."; talking Dodger Baseball,
> >>>>>> let's talk Dodgers!:
> >>>>>> lets-talk-dodgers-subscribe at emissives.com, or go to
> >>>>>> www.emissives.com, and click on Directory of Lists; my
> >>>>>> general-interest group,
> >>>>>> erics_chat_session-subscribe at emissives.com, or go to
> >>>>>> www.emissives.com and click on Directory of Lists, and on
> >>>>>> Facebook at eric at pmpmail.com.
> >>>>>> The
> >>>>>> Eric
> >>>>>> Calhoun Magazine is free of charge in your email! You are the
> >>>>>> star of the show! All we ask is that when you submit a Special
> >>>>>> Notice, that it is free and legal. You may also submit
> >>>>>> articles, Pen Pals, and tidbits. In
> >>>>>> 2014:
> >>>>>> Try to be good to each other!
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> blindkid mailing list
> >>>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>>> info for
> >>>>>> blindkid:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblind
> spot.o
> >>>>>> rg
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----
> >>>>>> No virus found in this message.
> >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >>>>>> Version: 2013.0.3462 / Virus Database: 3722/7168 - Release Date:
> >>>>>> 03/08/14
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> blindkid mailing list
> >>>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>>> info
> >>>>> for blindkid:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/crystal_schu%40h
> otmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> blindkid mailing list
> >>>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> >>>>> info for blindkid:
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/carol.joyce.
> >>> castellano%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> blindkid mailing list
> >>>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>>> for
> >>>> blindkid:
> >>>>
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/marianne%40denni
> ngweb.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Marianne Denning, TVI, MA
> >>> Teacher of students who are blind or visually impaired
> >>> (513) 607-6053
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> blindkid mailing list
> >>> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >>> for blindkid:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/carol.joyce.cast
> ellano%40gmail.com
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> blindkid mailing list
> >> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> >> for
> >> blindkid:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
> l.com
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > blindkid mailing list
> > blindkid at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > for
> blindkid:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/rholloway%40gopb
> c.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hpscheffer%40aol
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindkid mailing list
> blindkid at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> blindkid:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/deniserob%40gmai
> l.com
>
--
*Dr Denise*
Denise M. Robinson, TVI, Ph.D.
CEO, TechVision, LLC
Specialist in Technology/Training/Teaching for blind/low vision Private training to your needs
423-573-6413
Website with hundreds of informational articles & lessons on PC, Office products, Mac, iPad/iTools and more, all done with
keystrokes: www.yourtechvision.com
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is doing it." --Chinese Proverb
Computers are incredibly fast, accurate, and stupid: humans are incredibly slow, inaccurate and brilliant; together they are powerful beyond imagination.
--Albert Einstein
It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
--Walt Disney
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
blindkid at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/hpscheffer%40aol.com
_______________________________________________
blindkid mailing list
blindkid at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindkid_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for blindkid:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindkid_nfbnet.org/dburke%40cocenter.org
More information about the BlindKid
mailing list