[blindkid] Subject: Original Sin
David Andrews
dandrews at visi.com
Sat Jul 22 17:29:36 UTC 2017
There is no need to respond to his messages. He
has been unsubscribed, and blocked. He is invading a number of our lists.
Dave
At 08:39 AM 7/22/2017, you wrote:
>+1 > On Jul 22, 2017, at 1:17 PM, Penny Duffy
>via blindkid <blindkid at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > I
>am thinking this was posted in error as it's not
>on topic. > > On Sat, Jul 22, 2017, 9:05 AM Bob
>Evans via blindkid <blindkid at nfbnet.org> >
>wrote: > >> Hello, thank you for your response.
>I just would like to append >> further
>assertions. Based on your stark reluctance to
>tackle any of my >> theological challenges, it
>is considered an implicit defeatism for >> your
>camp. Protestants are not more than mere
>servants to Zionism. And >> as for your
>Christology devotion, it is considerably
>undistinguished. >> Your endorsement to the
>apartheid Zionist state is intrinsically >>
>inalienable. Thence, our duty is to incessantly
>engage with you in >> relentless combat missions
>until your party is perfectly discomfited. >>
>Your ministry doesnât base its tenets on
>nothing but an oblique hope >> of a theoretical
>scheme of salvation. The assumption that
>someone >> could have died for your sin is
>substantially Laputan and >> consequently, it is
>unlikely to be rectifiable. In Trumpâs
>damnable >> era, your state of dismay has just
>started. Americanisation is quite >> fragile and
>its global leadership is about to diminish. Your
>oval >> office is rotten to the core. Jews have
>constantly been dominating >> your denomination
>since Martin Luther era and even earlier to
>that >> time. There are many Muslims whom I knew
>have abandoned Islam to >> Christianity.
>Nevertheless, I never fathomed the relationship
>between >> becoming Christian, residing in the
>States and endorsing Zionists. I >> wish you
>have got sufficient courage to tackle this
>challenge in the >> slightest. I urge you to
>ponder properly on what I proposed. If you >>
>ever perceived the demand to clarify what might
>be vague to you, >> kindly, keep me notified.
>Best wishes, Bob >> >> >> >> >> On 7/21/17,
>Marty Purvis <wuas at wake-up.org> wrote: >>> Hello
>Mostafa: >>> >>> Thank you for your
>email. >>> >>> Our views on religious matters
>are very far apart. >>> So far, that further
>discussion would most likely be
>fruitless. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Larry
>Wilson >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 4:21 PM,
>Contact Page Message < >>>
>postmaster at wake-up.org> wrote: >>> >>>> From:
>Mostafa, technically Bob
><ebob824 at gmail.com> >>>> Subject: Original
>Sin >>>> >>>> Visitor's Message: >>>> Hello. I
>am Mostafa Almahdy. Bob Evans is just a
>technical name. I used >>>> to >>>> be called so
>when I worked at an American call centre here in
>Cairo. So, >>>> it >>>> is still my name. In the
>subsequent segment, Iâll present the
>Christian >>>> narrative of Original Sin in
>addition to posing crucial queries and >>>>
>denotative rebuttals. What is Original Sin in
>Christianity? It is a sin >>>> said to be
>inherited by all descendants of Adam. When Adam
>and Eve >>>> sinned, >>>> death entered to the
>world. Thence, God demanded to be paid to
>redeem >>>> humanity. He then sacrificed his
>only begotten son to ransom us. This >>>>
>account may ostensibly seem to be reasonable. Be
>that as it may, it >>>> contains major defects.
>First of which, it portrays the divine with >>>>
>imperfection. It doesnât recognise his
>omnipotence. Why? Because >>>> according >>>> to
>this theology, he demanded to be paid in order
>to redeem. At its >>>> inception, I have couple
>of questions for clergy. First, has Adam
>been >>>> destined to be eternal in Eden?
>Second, when he committed his ever first >>>>
>sin, why hasnât he been given one chance to
>repent? Third, when Adam ate >>>> from the tree
>of knowing good and evil, he became like God
>according to >>>> Genesis. A question here, has
>he been punished because he became aware >>
>of >>>> good and evil? It is assumed that he
>didnât know good and evil until he >>>>
>ate >>>> from the tree of knowing good and evil.
>So, how could God punish an >>>> innocent? And
>as for sin inheritance, if a man and a woman
>committed >>>> adultery, could we possibly hold
>their child accountable for what they >>>>
>have >>>> done? This is the precise logic
>exploited in Christian concept of >>>>
>Original >>>> Sin. And as for redemption and
>forfeiture, if God was paid to redeem, >>
>how >>>> could he still forgive? If I supposedly
>wounded someone, does he has the >>>> right to
>retaliate? Yes, he certainly does. And, if he
>wanted to forgive >>>> me, could he still
>retaliate? No, he surely couldnât. Itâs
>either >>>> forgiveness or retaliation, it
>couldnât be both. And as for Christ, how >>>>
>could an innocent bear the guiltyâs iniquity?
>According to traditional >>>> Christian
>theology, death entered to the world when Adam
>and Eve sinned. >>>> Therefore, someone had to
>die for this. He had to be impeccant and,
>he >>>> had >>>> to die forever. Christians
>preach that Jesus is the one who paid for >>>>
>this. >>>> The question is, did he die forever?
>According to Christian story, he >>>> died >>>>
>for three days. Well actually, he died for less
>than that if you think >> of >>>> it a bit.
>Jesusâs date of Crucifixion and resurrection
>differs from >>>> gospel >>>> to another.
>Please, donât take my word for this. I urge
>you to just >> check >>>> John nineteen and Mark
>fifteen. Most Christians today believe that
>Jesus >>>> died on a Friday afternoon and risen
>on a fine Easter Sunday morning. As >>>> for
>Adventists, they do not believe in this. They
>even have their >> Sabbath >>>> held on
>Saturday. Christian innovation of Original Sin
>is remarkably >>>> exposed. I urge southern
>laity and their associates to genuinely
>ponder >>>> on >>>> the scenario encountered in
>Christian theology. If Adam sinned and we >>>>
>were >>>> contagiously destined to be
>anathematised eternally, why didnât Jesus >>
>die >>>> forever then? I believe that my points
>are critical and thus, they >>>> deserve >>>>
>thorough attention. It is a bit odd to just rely
>on the thought that >>>> someone theoretically
>died for my sins and then, go do whatever I
>want. >>>> We >>>> bear witness western
>Christians who basically donât care about what
>they >>>> do. They eat explicitly prohibited
>cattle, they vastly consume alcoholic >>>>
>beverages and they carelessly engage in illicit
>wedlock. Where is your >>>> devotional
>consignment? Religious life is the last thing a
>lay western >>>> Christian wants to think of. I
>respectfully ask you to ponder on your >>>>
>religious responsibility. As a Muslim, what
>prevents me from having a >>>> girlfriend? Well,
>nothing but my religion which holds me
>fully >>>> accountable >>>> for either righteous
>or vicious deeds. Why Christian tradition is
>so >>>> tolerant with the culture of boyfriend
>and girlfriend illicit >>>> relationships? As
>you can see, despite the conceptâs
>fraudulently >>>> emotional >>>> prettification,
>it is besieged with numerously
>irreconcilable >>>> discrepancies. This is the
>primary tenet upon which your whole faith
>is >>>> based, this is indeed the backbone of
>Christianity. If someone disagrees >>>> with
>this statement, well, tell me then, how could
>the account of >>>> Crucifixion and Redemption
>be presented without basing it on the >>>>
>Christian >>>> concept of Original Sin? I
>seriously attempt to fathom. I do not
>intend >>>> to >>>> deride or ridicule. I am
>totally convinced that Christians have
>absolute >>>> right to broadly proselytize, to
>keenly call for their faith. Yes, they >>>> have
>the right to do so on one condition. I urge them
>to refrain from >>>> using >>>> fallacious
>rhetoric in their dialog. It just makes their
>stance quite >>>> attenuated and thus,
>susceptible to easily crumble under
>critical >>>> scrutiny. I am prepared to be
>christened if someone convinced me with >>>>
>plain >>>> reasonableness that what you believe
>is the truth. I do not give credit >>>> to >>>>
>Christian portraiture of original sin. Now, if
>you want to convince >>>> someone >>>> to become
>Christian, you have got to explain this mystery
>to him. For >>>> some >>>> reason, it seems to
>be unexplainable to me. It looks like as if
>someone >>>> worked it out or made it up. So
>basically, I feel it is quite perturbing >>>>
>to conjointly destine our whole human species
>to hell for no fault of >>>> its >>>> own.
>However, some pastors tend to baffle between
>holding the innocent >>>> versus the guilty
>accountable, either instigants or actual
>actors. >> Pastor >>>> Jacob of Michigan
>believes that instigants are not to be held >>>>
>accountable. >>>> Who is an
>instigant? An instigant is
>someone who >>>> deliberately foments trouble.
>So, if hateful pastors provoked mass >>
>Muslim >>>> offence that led to broad outrage,
>they are basically held accountable >>>>
>for >>>> any casualty or fatality rate.
>Similarly, if Muslim clerics caused hate >>>>
>because of their radical speech, they are wholly
>held accountable for >> any >>>> erupted
>tension in the community. So, statutorily,
>instigants are >>>> equally >>>> held
>accountable just as actual actors. So, if a girl
>who is absolutely >>>> gorgeous wore a
>staggeringly provocative outfit to purposely
>beguile >> men, >>>> she is partly held
>accountable for the lust she consciously
>instigated. >>>> It >>>> seems that fibbers
>and chisellers are not willing to address
>the >>>> subject of Original Sin fairly. They
>tend to breach with decisive facts. >>>>
>Therefore, their theology is incessantly
>subjected to critical >> criticism. >>>> Some of
>them even asked me, whether we as Muslims are
>sure we are going >>>> to >>>> heaven. I
>wouldnât ever assure I am going to heaven
>unless with >>>> providential amnesty. I would
>say it is unjustified pride if I ever >>>>
>thought I am absolutely going to heaven. It just
>contradicts with >>>> enjoined >>>> humility.
>Islam teaches us to be pious and to devote
>ourselves to doing >>>> good deeds. I on
>multiple occasions attempted to establish a
>mutually >>>> deferential dialog with southern
>pastors. Nevertheless, they failed to >>>>
>comply to this. Their level of timidity did not
>match with my >>>> expectations. >>>> I tell
>them, if you ever wanted to learn about Islam,
>it is not an >>>> encouraging motive to
>obliviously quote oriental literature. First
>off, >>>> you >>>> desperately demand to develop
>proper command of Arabic. Moreover, your >>>>
>prejudicial notion doesnât do more than
>substantiating your >> unprecedented >>>>
>nescience. If Original Sin wasnât the
>fundamental belief of >> Christianity, >>>> it
>would have not been used to constitute its
>doctrinal tenets. I >> civilly >>>> postulate
>this theological conversation because I am quite
>interested in >>>> comparative theology. For
>each faith, there are fundamental tenets. I >>>>
>challengingly assert that without Original Sin,
>Christianity would have >>>> not >>>> ever
>existed. For emotional motives, the idea that
>someone died in the >>>> cause of your salvation
>is quite appealing. However, as we saw, it
>has >>>> many >>>> defects if it is to be
>illustrated in moderately rational disposal.
>I >>>> await >>>> to hear pastoral response. But
>please, we do not need to either >>>>
>equivocate >>>> nor unconscionably philosophise
>the matter. It rather has to be >>>>
>simplified >>>> in a rationally straightforward
>manner. Beating around the bush has >>>>
>intemperately fell at the first hurdle. Thank
>you for reading, Mostafa, >>>> technically Bob
>Evans. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> This e-mail was sent
>from the "Contact US" page on Wake Up
>America >>>> Seminars >>>>
>(https://www.wake-up.org/contact-us/) >>>> >>> >> >>
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