[blindlaw] Format Question

Wed Dec 10 00:39:10 UTC 2008

I think the ACB handholding case referred to was the case involving the 
Treasury Department regardeing accessible currency.
Chuck
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dennis Clark" <dennisgclark at sbcglobal.net>
To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question


> Hi John,
> Good to see you on the list.  I lost track of you after law school, and I 
> am happy to see that the bar exam is behind you and that you are now in 
> practice.  In your message you referred to another "ACB, let's all hold 
> blind folks hands, as they cannot help themselves lawsuit."  I assume you 
> are referring to the law suit against Target and that was actually 
> launched with the support of the NFB and litigated by the Disability 
> Rights Advocates in California.  I am personally pleased that the NFB did 
> this, but I will admit I am aggressive on this point, and I have no 
> problem forcing even private entities such as Target to be fully 
> accessible to the blind.  The Target action can of course be argued as 
> "hand holding," since there are alternatives for reading any website, such 
> as using a reader, or the free market solution of simply shopping at a 
> store which demonstrates that it wants the business of blind people by 
> offering an accessible website, but I don't subscribe to that argument. 
> After all, everything is accessible if we use sighted assistance, but the 
> accessibility alternative needs to be practical, not just plausible.
>
> Forcing the Social Security Administration to provide accessible 
> communications is an even easier philosophical question for me,  because 
> unlike Target, the government is not a private entity.  There are many 
> shopping alternatives available to us other than Target, but we are forced 
> to interact with the Social Security Administration.
>
> Also, the Social Security Administration use to telephone blind recipients 
> to tell them about any problems or written communications being mailed to 
> them, so we are not asking them to do something new or unworkable.  I know 
> for a fact that this was true in 2004, because I represented someone 
> before the Social Security Administration, and this procedure was already 
> in place and was offered as part of the solution to my client's problem.
>
> As a matter of law, and in addition to the 504 argument, I think a strong 
> constitutional argument can be made as a matter of due process if it is 
> the case that there is a property interest in Social Security payments. 
> It is likely that there is no property interest in SSI payments, but I am 
> confident there is with SSDI and retirement payments since they result 
> from money paid into Social Security by the recipient.
>
> I look forward to hearing others thoughts on this matter.
>
> All the best,
>
> Dennis
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <ckrugman at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>
>
>>I actually agree with you. I am more concerned about the lack of activity 
>>regarding inaccessible web sites and the use of sucdh formats such as 
>>captia and flash formats where image text is presented not bering readable 
>>by screen readers.
>> Chuck
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>
>>
>>> Hi Chuck,
>>> I have no dispute that we should be able to receive communications in an
>>> accessible format, but I am just not ready for another ACB, let's all 
>>> hold
>>> blind folks hands, as they cannot help themselves lawsuit.
>>> Take care,
>>> John
>>>
>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>>
>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>>
>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On
>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
>>> Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:41 AM
>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>>
>>>
>>> Its interesting because I recall many years ago that SSA used to say 
>>> that
>>> materials were available in Braille and people could receive 
>>> communications
>>> from them in Braille. This was back in the 60's when I was growing up. 
>>> I'm
>>> not sure what the extent of this was or if or when it was discontinued.
>>> Chuck
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Kathleen Hagen" <khagen12 at q.com>
>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 1:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>>
>>>
>>>> John,  There is a certified class for blind social security recipients
>>>> in
>>>> which they are suing the SSA for accessible documents.  That does not 
>>>> mean
>>>
>>>> that SSA is providing alternative formats for consumer's materials yet.
>>>> And they probably won't for some time while they spend the taxpayers'
>>>> money figuring out how to avoid it.  They do hire blind people and they
>>>> provide general materials in braille at least.  But your friend 
>>>> shouldn't
>>>> expect to see her consumer-related material in alternative format any 
>>>> time
>>>
>>>> soon.
>>>> Kathy Hagen
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
>>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 11:09 AM
>>>> Subject: [blindlaw] Format Question
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>> i am on another NFB list and an individual seems to be under the
>>>>> impression
>>>>> that the Social Security Administration is violating her rights 
>>>>> because
>>>>> she
>>>>> received the cost of living increase letter in the same format that
>>>>> everyone
>>>>> else receives the notice. Apparently this is just a standard letter in 
>>>>> a
>>>>> standard envelope. I am personally not aware of any law that requires 
>>>>> an
>>>>> entity to send "accessible" letters to everyone that might have a 
>>>>> visual
>>>>> disability. If this is the law, can someone point me to the section of
>>>>> the
>>>>> CFR that contains such a requirement?
>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
>>>>>
>>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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