[blindlaw] Fw:Accommodation and Compliance series: The ADA Amendments Act of 2008

Wed Jan 7 03:18:57 UTC 2009

Everybody:

This isn't the proper list to discuss echo location, marshall arts 
etc.  I think this discussion has drifted a bit and I ask you to end 
it as it is now to much off topic.

David Andrews, Moderator

At 02:04 PM 1/6/2009, you wrote:
>Here is my brief encounter with such.  I have a congenitally blind 6 year
>old son.  He maneuvers using echolocation.  He can walk through a building
>without touching a single wall and navigate doorways and hallways.  He can
>walk outside and when he is approached by someone he can reach out and touch
>them at perfect arms length.  He does the same with any solid surface he
>approaches.
>
>He started this when he was crawling at about 8 months of age.  He would tap
>the floor and maneuver around obstacles like walls, chairs, counters, etc..
>He gets better with age.  He deals with terrain elevation by scooting his
>feet with his toe in the air and his heel barely touching the floor.  He can
>then detect any difference in surface texture, material, etc..  I feel at
>some point he will change his mode and right now I am trying to enforce his
>cane usage but it is quite fascinating to watch him walk without it.  I am
>hoping that he will pursue martial arts later.
>
>As far as stopping a flying fist in mid-air, I don't see it happening.  But
>he may surprise me, his hearing is very keen and he can hear whatever I do
>in any room of the house.  I have to use stealth to sneak up on him and that
>is getting harder by the day.  Actually, it is impossible if the house is
>quiet.  So who knows.......don't give up.
>
>On Tue, Jan 6, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Mark BurningHawk
><stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>wrote:
>
> > It must be pointed out here that, as much as I am sorry I started this, I
> > do *NOT* have the skills to do this, I don't even come close, I never will
> > come close, and I make no claim to being able to do anything like what I
> > believe, is potentially possible.  I believe it's possible based on one
> > blind man in particular with whom I was acquainted and who I witnessed
> > navigating environments without using a cane or dog.  I, however, also
> > having a severe hearing loss, will never come close to having this type of
> > awareness.  I am, at best, an over-educated advanced beginner. :)
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael O. Hanson" <
> > mhanson at winternet.com>
> > To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 3:31 AM
> > Subject: Re:
> > [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >
> >
> >  I have studied martial arts to some extent.  I do not have anything like
> >> Mark Burning Hawk's skills.  That being said, I can tell you there is
> >> nothing necessarily "mystical" about them.  I would love to find 
> out where I
> >> could learn to use information I could get from practicing such activities
> >> to replace a white cane but would need some convincing.
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike Hanson
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Schulz" <b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
> >> >
> >> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 11:05 PM
> >> Subject: Re:
> >> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>
> >>
> >>  hi,
> >>>
> >>> come on bud, you really expect blind people to walk down the street or
> >>> through a shopping mall shouting 'blind guy coming thru"?
> >>> lay off the peace pipe!
> >>> Bryan Schulz
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark BurningHawk" <
> >>> stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> >>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:45 PM
> >>> Subject: Re:
> >>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  Interesting; at bottom line, blind people are required to warn the
> >>>> public of their presence.  Of course I know I'm being slightly stretchy
> >>>> here, but shouldn't the goal be to eliminate this need?
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John " <joramsey at cox.net>
> >>>> To: "'NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List'" <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:29 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re:
> >>>> 
> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>  Chuck,
> >>>>> Believe it or not, I have had several people fall over my cane because
> >>>>> they
> >>>>> walk backward while chatting with friends and the like. I have no idea
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> the liability would be if you were acting as the reasonable blind
> >>>>> person
> >>>>> would act. However,  I can almost guarantee you that if you were
> >>>>> practicing
> >>>>> some form of martial arts  navigation you are going to be liable if
> >>>>> someone
> >>>>> is injured because you walked into them and the like.
> >>>>> Take care,
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John A. Ramsey Jr., Esq.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Gainesville, FL 32609
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phone: (352) 505-6642
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> >>>>> On
> >>>>> Behalf Of ckrugman at sbcglobal.net
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 4:56 PM
> >>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>> Subject: Re:
> >>>>> [blindlaw]Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of
> >>>>> 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is totally hypothetical but I have always wondered about the
> >>>>> potential
> >>>>> liability if someone is injured when they trip and fall over my cane
> >>>>> when
> >>>>> they are not paying attention. I realize its far-fetched but many law
> >>>>> suits
> >>>>> are far-fetched.
> >>>>> Chuck
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "KEITH VICK " <keith-vick at msn.com>
> >>>>> To: "NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List " <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>; "Mark
> >>>>> BurningHawk" <stone_troll at sbcglobal.net>
> >>>>> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 8:18 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
> >>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  Hi List Members, I believe that New York has a statute that disallows
> >>>>>> a
> >>>>>> claim of negligence based on failure to use a cane. This may be the
> >>>>>> case
> >>>>>> in other states. Also, as someone who has had the privilege of
> >>>>>> training in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  aikido and brazilian jiu jitsu I find the concept of martial arts
> >>>>>> training
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>  as a recognized adaptive method rather amusing and highly speculative.
> >>>>>> However, I do admit that the training has helped me adjust to my
> >>>>>> progressively worsening vision mostly because the arts trains one to
> >>>>>> deal
> >>>>>> with unexpected movements against ones body - a rather common
> >>>>>> occurrence
> >>>>>> in the subways of New York city. Warmest regards, Keith Vick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: Mark BurningHawk
> >>>>>> Sent: 1/4/2009 11:26:01 PM
> >>>>>> To: NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindlaw]
> >>>>>> Fw:AccommodationandComplianceseries:TheADAAmendmentsAct of 2008
> >>>>>> I am not sure of a way in which a blind person using skills learned
> >>>>>> via a
> >>>>>> certain type of training could injure another person.  I am a bit
> >>>>>> disturbed
> >>>>>> to hear that there's a different "reasonable standard," for persons
> >>>>>> and
> >>>>>> blind persons, but other than that, I think my original question has
> >>>>>> been
> >>>>>> answered, and I really didn't mean to stir up any controversy over
> >>>>>> mobility
> >>>>>> methods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
> >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>>> blindlaw:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/keith-vick%40msn.c
> >>>>> om
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> blindlaw mailing list
> >>>>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> >>>>>> blindlaw:
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/ckrugman%40sbcglob
> >>>>> al.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> blindlaw:
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> >>>>> 
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> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> blindlaw mailing list
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> >>>>> blindlaw:
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> >>>>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/stone_troll%40sbcglobal.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> blindlaw mailing list
> >>>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org
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> >>>> blindlaw:
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> >>>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/b.schulz%40sbcglobal.net
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> blindlaw:
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> >>> 
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/mhanson%40winternet.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> 
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> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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