[blindlaw] college complaint

Sat Jan 27 17:48:48 UTC 2018

Let me say first that I am not a lawyer. Secondly I have a little 
experience, with the ADA, but it is years old. The NFB got a 
technical assistance grant from DOJ, in 1991 or 92, and I was the 
person who answered questions from people -- primarily about Braille signage.

As I recall, when requesting an accommodation, the entity, college or 
university, should take the specific request of the disabled 
individual into account. That is the way the accommodation is 
provided should be weighted towards what the individual asked for. 
However, there is no obligation to provide the accommodation in that 
manner. If the entity provides an accommodation, in good faith, I 
doubt the individual would have cause for action.

Dave

At 10:33 AM 1/27/2018, you wrote:
>For those who do know ADA law, a hypothetical question out of curiosity:
>
>Suppose that, narrowly considered for a specific class situation,
>providing a human aide is preferred by the accommodating school.
>Assume for the sake of this question that the aide would allow the
>student to fully participate in the requirements of the class.
>
>However, this accommodation would make the student dependent on the
>aide in the future; they would not be able to use the skill or
>software taught in the class by themselves, or with alternative
>accommodations (like software).
>
>Does the student have any claim against the school, either at the time
>(to get an accommodation that they can use later, when the school
>isn't providing it) or afterwards (e.g. to learn a new accommodation
>so that they can apply the class' teachings independently, or as
>compensation for the decrease in their future job prospects,
>independence, etc)?
>
>Sincerely,
>Sai
>
>
>On Sat, Jan 27, 2018 at 3:39 PM, Steve Jacobson via BlindLaw
><blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Brian,
> >
> > Individual situations often require individualized approaches so 
> I am really
> > glad you can connect with Noel who is very knowledgeable of the specific
> > laws.  As one who is not a lawyer  but who has followed and promoted
> > legislation for many years, I wanted to comment on one of the replies you
> > received.  I know of no law that requires every company to make their
> > software accessible.  Generally, the law puts the burden on those who buy
> > software to only buy accessible software.  There are many cases where an
> > educational institution, governmental agencies, and companies that have
> > public locations have to make websites and other processes that are used by
> > the public accessible.  This helps and covers many situations, but it does
> > not affect all companies or all software.  We can also sometimes affect
> > companies who develop software to add accessibility by affecting their
> > ability to sell to an important part of their market.  If it 
> appears that we
> > can prevent them from selling to educational institutions, for example, it
> > then becomes in their interest to make their software accessible.  Many of
> > us feel that the restrictions on software sold to schools helped push Apple
> > to make their products accessible.  Apple, of course, has denied 
> that in the
> > past, saying they did it because it was the right thing to do.  Who can say
> > for certain.
> >
> > Another part of this is whether there is an accessible alternative that is
> > just as functional.  If there isn't a competing product to Cisco's packet
> > tracer that has the same functionality, it makes it more difficult for a
> > complaint to stick.  However, getting customers, like colleges, 
> to push back
> > is an approach to reach the decision makers in a company in a way that we
> > can't as individuals.  You may need to explain to your instructor that
> > filing a complaint gives your instructor and your college more leverage in
> > helping you deal with Cisco, but perhaps Noel will have other approaches.
> >
> > Finally, as someone who worked in the computer field for many years, I
> > occasionally found it helpful to learn and understand software that I could
> > not use.  I do not say this to discourage your efforts to change this
> > situation, but working with a reader to learn the processes being 
> taught can
> > be helpful.  For example, I have had to decide which tool was best to get a
> > given result even though it was not going to be my job to use that tool.
> > This was in an environment where accessibility was not mandated in any way.
> > I was able to help make the decision because I understood the software even
> > though I could not effectively use it.  This isn't ideal but is another
> > thing to consider.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve Jacobson
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bryan
> > Schulz via BlindLaw
> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 5:19 PM
> > To: 'Blind Law Mailing List' <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: b.schulz at sbcglobal.net
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] college complaint
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Of course that is an accommodation!
> > You didn't process the question.
> > Is there no issue to pursue because an accommodation was provided?
> > Bryan
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Roanna
> > Bacchus via BlindLaw
> > Sent: Friday, January 26, 2018 9:27 AM
> > To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> > Cc: rbacchus228 at gmail.com
> > Subject: Re: [blindlaw] college complaint
> >
> > Yes it is an accommodation to have a human person sitting next to you as a
> > leader in class. All software companies are required to make programs
> > accessible to users with disabilities.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On Jan 25, 2018, at 10:32 PM, Bryan Schulz via BlindLaw
> > <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I want to know if it is possible to file a complaint, or suit against
> >> a software company without including the college setting where it is
> >> being used.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The situation is a college course is using cisco packet tracer and it
> >> is completely unusable with jaws but the instructor is trying to
> >> figure something out.
> >>
> >> If a human is sitting next to me, is that a valid accommodation and
> >> that's the end of it while I'm not learning anything?
> >>
> >> Bryan
> >>