[blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination

Thu Oct 3 04:27:32 UTC 2019

 This conversation has been very welcomed!

On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw <
blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use
> paste special as text when I copy from programs.  In Word the keystrokes
> are to
> copy the text onto the clipboard and
> move to where you want the text copied
> press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas, just press the letters
> consecutively )
>
> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into
> which it is pasted.
>
> Is this your experience.
>
> There are also two keystrokes that I think help.
> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the text
> is removed.
> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I don't
> remember it right now.
>
> Randy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura Wolk via
> BlindLaw
> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM
> To: Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>; Blind Law Mailing List <
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
> Discrimination
>
> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION**
>
> All,
>
> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses
> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets
> this info.  In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of
> blindness-only formatting errors.
>
> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another
> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original
> formatting from that pasted text.  That means that if you're fiile is
> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10,
> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and
> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size.  Same
> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from
> pasted text.  My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most
> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.**  It only
> causes problems.  And, in the rare instance where you do need to
> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately
> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special
> formatting will be retained.
>
> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable
> typing out directions.  But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word
> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it.
> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents
> and one for pasting between programs.  They should both be set to
> merge formatting.  And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and
> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right-
> indent with tabs and backspaces."  This will mean you'll need to press
> tab every time you start a new paragraph.  However, it will also mean
> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way
> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its
> very smart "auto" features.
>
> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as
> well.  Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of
> options.
>
> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately**
> see **vast** and **life-changing** results!  All kidding aside,
> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or
> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and
> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix.
>
> Happy formatting,
> Laura
>
> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Laura,
> >
> > This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a
> > Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be
> > helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my
> > experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille.
> > I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and colors
> > spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is included
> > in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain sections of
> > documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty good at
> > bringing these formatting errors to my attention.)
> >
> > Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely
> > realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I am
> > still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in my
> > documents.
> >
> > On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Kelby,
> >>
> >> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word wrap
> >> will not break up whatever is on either side of it.  So, for instance,
> >> if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason burden ended
> >> up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace the dash with a
> >> nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be chopped.  A
> >> nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily used between
> >> section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to keep the two
> >> together.  It's also used in between the periods of an ellipsis.  This
> >> all depends on the custom of the firm or court you work for, of
> >> course.  There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed to read out
> >> nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating quick settings
> >> and typing in the word breaking), but this is currently not
> >> functioning.  Vispero is aware and has escalated it.
> >>
> >> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille.  But I have
> >> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes,
> >> which I find very helpful.  I also have punctuation set to some, but
> >> I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks.
> >>
> >> I hope this is helpful.
> >>
> >> Laura
> >>
> >> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader read
> >>> as
> >>> you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to read close to
> >>> everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind of distracting it
> >>> seems
> >>> necessary for proofing.
> >>>
> >>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the different
> >>> kinds
> >>> of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no idea what a non-breaking
> >>> space is.
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you can
> also
> >>>> do
> >>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got broken
> >>>> somewhere along the way.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
> >>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220 and
> >>>>> \8221
> >>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf. By
> >>>>> default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which one). The
> >>>>> changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to make sure I do
> this
> >>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/well.+Hopefully+it+works+for+you?entry=gmail&source=g>.
> I’m
> >>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Angie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US
> >>>>> Attorney at Law
> >>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/>
> >>>>> Loeb and Loeb LLP
> >>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001
> >>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
> >>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
> >>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC | San
> >>>>> Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong | www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com/>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
> >>>>> via
> >>>>> BlindLaw
> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM
> >>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I have
> >>>>> ms
> >>>>> word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the dictionary
> >>>>> manager.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
> >>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Laura,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brian
> >>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
> >>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law
> >>>>>> By The State Bar of California
> >>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt
> >>>>>> A Professional Corporation
> >>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103
> >>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501
> >>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
> >>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
> >>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com
> >>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e>mailto:
> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> On
> >>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM
> >>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
> >>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Brian,
> >>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that I'm no
> >>>>>> longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations.
> >>>>>> I've
> >>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the latest
> >>>>>> version
> >>>>>> of Jaws and is it working for you?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and viewed
> >>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>> html form.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes in a
> >>>>>>>> text
> >>>>>>>> file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and outlook. Since it
> >>>>>>>> does
> >>>>>>>> do it in Notepad, it seems it would not be that difficult to port
> >>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> behavior over to the Office products.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail transmission, and any
> >>>>>>>> documents,
> >>>>>>>> files or previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain
> >>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are
> not
> >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it
> >>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> >>>>>>>> disclosure,
> >>>>>>>> copying, distribution or use of any of the information contained
> in
> >>>>>>>> or
> >>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have
> >>>>>>>> received this transmission in error, please immediately notify the
> >>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and its
> >>>>>>>> attachments
> >>>>>>>> without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb
> >>>>>>>> LLP.
> >>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
> >>>>>>>> On
> >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk
> >>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM
> >>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
> >>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com
> >>
> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of what
> >>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>> mean?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Brian
> >>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
> >>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law
> >>>>>>>>> The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt
> >>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation
> >>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103
> >>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501
> >>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
> >>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
> >>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com
> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e>>mailto:
> brianunitt at holsteinlaw
> >>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> On
> >>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM
> >>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson
> >>>>>>>>> <kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:
> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a smart
> >>>>>>>>> quote
> >>>>>>>>> because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just quote.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going forward
> if
> >>>>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier
> >>>>>>>>>>> <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com<mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com
> <mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com%3cmailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your
> >>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate
> >>>>>>>>>>> Professors to have followed would have been to:
> >>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would
> presumably
> >>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate impact
> >>>>>>>>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>> your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing so and why and
> >>>>>>>>>>> explain the issues with content.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Ger
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper in
> >>>>>>>>>>>> undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "substance,"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In
> fact,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're
> >>>>>>>>>>>> tasked
> >>>>>>>>>>>> with drafting something for a client. This is why I really
> >>>>>>>>>>>> think
> >>>>>>>>>>>> this is in the back of people's minds... how much extra work
> >>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>> we going to need to put in to make her work look presentable?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to tell. And
> >>>>>>>>>>>> they see this stuff and think, it'll only take a second for me
> >>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> fix this... No harm, no foul.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound schemes
> >>>>>>>>>>>> turned on for highlighting. I never really thought about
> >>>>>>>>>>>> highlighting.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>> filled in when filing, such as the final word count and the
> >>>>>>>>>>>> submission date. So although I would fill in everything, they
> >>>>>>>>>>>> were still in yellow. My assistant was just changing
> >>>>>>>>>>>> everything.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about how I
> >>>>>>>>>>>> knew she thought she was helping, and I really appreciated it,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd make sure to tell me if
> >>>>>>>>>>>> anything similar came up in the future.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:
> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same happened to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> me, except htat my law review editor pointed it out. The same
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> thing happens with an apostrophe. A "straight" apostrophe is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value 39, and curly smart apostrophes are 8216 and
> 8217.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have come
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> as straight when drafted in note pad too. This can also
> happen
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can add 34 and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> replace it with the word "straight quote" and likewise with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> straight apostrophe.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws seems
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> be so tempermental these days, you might give it a go and see
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> it works for you.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these
> symbols.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> ascii value.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any difference
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatsoever.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> world do we learn these things while we're still in school?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk about
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> double quotes.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one symbol
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represents the quotation mark, whether it is an opening
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quote
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or a closing quote.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point at the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote is shaped
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> similar to a print letter “C,”
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the enclosed material, is shaped like a backwards “C,”
> so
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> enclosing the material.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart quotes,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> since
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the opening and closing quotes are different. I guess you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could use two apostrophes to represent both opening and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> closing quotes in braille, but I really don’t see that very
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often. I don’t think braille has an equivalent for the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> straight quote, but someone please jump in and correct me
> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.”
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it into this email.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Attorney at Law
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/> Loeb and Loeb LLP
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong |
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com><http://www.loeb.com>><
> http://www.loeb.com/>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/
> www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are not the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this transmission
> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this transmission
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> error, please immediately notify the sender. Please destroy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> original transmission and its attachments without reading
> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:
> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol for a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> g<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindla
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:w at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:
> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c
> >>>>> <mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%
> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was regarding knowing the difference between a straight and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote/apostrophe?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you
> explain.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com
> %3cm<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com
> %3cm>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, reliance or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distribution by others or forwarding without express
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> permission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intended
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, please contact the sender and delete all copies.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand what you are trying to ask.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm trying to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at is that we have to face the sad but true reality that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are, in fact, blind attorneys out there who produce work of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lesser visual quality, whose firms or legal assistants or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whatever come along behind and clean up the work.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as Angie
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> said,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the person continues to remain unaware of the errors they
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over and over again, and the people continue to believe
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of their
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> peers.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had conversations
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> where I initially pressed the superior to give me blind
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> specific feedback, they said nothing was wrong, then I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pressed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and said "this is very important to me. Whatever you tell
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will be able to figure out a way to address it." And then
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they did give me some feedback.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that his emails were formatted whackily. The junior partner
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> told my friend not to say anything but, being friends with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> he knew it was the right thing to do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a bit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> embarrassed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real about
> the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create awareness
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is indeed OK to tell a blind person "Hey, Just an FYI, you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> occasionally doing something that makes your documents look
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strange."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination. I have planned conversations
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a couple of attorneys responsible for hiring associates
> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will send you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> an
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> email off-list to learn more from your perspective.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law
> school
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position is ending next Monday. And, despite my
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wholehearted
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> efforts over the last 6 months to find work, I have no
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bitter
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith and James have done an excellent job of giving
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related work in law school because I did not want to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> placed in that box either.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that area might be a bit more understanding and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educated.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leads
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to employment discrimination.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or visually
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impaired attorneys are as capable as their sighted
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> created a Taskforce to address, among other issues,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employment discrimination against persons with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the legal profession. We are trying to provide
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> education
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disabilities in the hopes that this will alleviate some
> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local bench
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blog post linked below.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali
> >>>>> <https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali%3cBR%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> sm-C
> >>>>>>>> <
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C%0b>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons for people like myself and Sanho pursuing a
> legal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am proud
> of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> provide a majority of what we used to fill our sales.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of
> a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worried that someone will see my GPA and somehow assume
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that all of my professors have independently decided to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This
> is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing supports
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that fear.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I
> am
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo into a field
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limited
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice law in an area related to one of my most
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visible and perceptibly limiting characteristics.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the most
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> excepting field of practice.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have time to perfect this dispatch.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’
> observation
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may possess by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of externships and internships does not seem to
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during law
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt my abilities to deliver the work they expect.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my ability to thrive in practice?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> general have no issue trusting that I am capable to do
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something, so long as I am not being paid to do it. I
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absolutely no problem securing volunteer or community
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> involvement opportunities. .
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school being seen as a parlor trick. Despite the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fact
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I had a degree and a license, I was asked in a
> job
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> physical book. They seemed to be under the impression
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that someone must have helped me with all my
> schooling.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other attorneys when they find out I have my own firm
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> versus how I was treated when I was first out of
> school
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they can potentially work with and it is easier to
> make
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I thought it would be before entering the profession.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus
> for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 <tel:716-563-9882>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%20%
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> %20%25%0b>>>>
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> %20%25%0b>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also an attorney, practicing for quite some time
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now--that many employers pretty much look at a blind
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person's success in law school as a "parlor trick"
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a great
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deal
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of sense in light of my experience.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> school, which is still extremely important by the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with all the things that law school doesn't prepare
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and, of
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, handling evidence with any kind of visual
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> aspect
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things before being?? seen as potentially able to do
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them in practice. I understand that things are
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somewhat
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> less grim for people who have clerkships. I will
> soon
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also
> don't
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers'
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance??
> setting,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared for a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lot
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of rejection, but still be the best possible
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so that you can be competitive for opportunities
> that
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my
> naive
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho
> Steele-Louchart
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailt
> >>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hiring practices so far? Messages are welcome on
> or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> >>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o%3cBR%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o%3cBR%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chttp:/
> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> BlindLaw:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> g/cj
> >>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cj%0b
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw mailing list
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
> <mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> g%3c BR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
> >>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
> >>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3chttp:/
> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o
>
-- 
Will Burley
Mobile:  (713) 614-3322
Email:  will.burley3 at gmail.com

“I think we all have empathy, but we may not have enough courage to display
it.” –Maya Angelou