[blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination
Lakeria Taylor
lakeria2009 at gmail.com
Fri Oct 4 09:03:47 UTC 2019
Hi all,
Control alt v gives you paste special.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 4, 2019, at 3:51 AM, Scott Marshall via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Laura and everyone:
> Thank you! This email thread has been invaluable. My biggest word processing challenge is screwing up the formatting of documents that I did not create originally. I have not made the changes suggested here as yet, but it is on my to-do list for today for sure.
> Now if we only had a good solution for the track changes problem.
> The days of being the only author on a document are over.
> Thanks again.
> Scott
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Will Burley via BlindLaw
> Sent: Thursday, October 3, 2019 12:28 AM
> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Will Burley <will.burley3 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re: Discrimination
>
> This conversation has been very welcomed!
>
>> On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 9:43 PM Farber, Randy via BlindLaw < blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Laura - I am not in a place where I can double check, but I often use
>> paste special as text when I copy from programs. In Word the
>> keystrokes are to copy the text onto the clipboard and move to where
>> you want the text copied press Alt,e,s,u,u [do not press the commas,
>> just press the letters consecutively )
>>
>> I think this will copy the text using the format of the document into
>> which it is pasted.
>>
>> Is this your experience.
>>
>> There are also two keystrokes that I think help.
>> If you highlight text and then press Alt+space the formatting of the
>> text is removed.
>> There is a similar command to remove the paragraph formatting, but I
>> don't remember it right now.
>>
>> Randy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura Wolk
>> via BlindLaw
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 2, 2019 5:13 PM
>> To: Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>; Blind Law Mailing List <
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: [blindLaw] Most important formatting advice I have -- Re:
>> Discrimination
>>
>> **RECEIVED FROM EXTERNAL SENDER – USE CAUTION**
>>
>> All,
>>
>> I am sharing this on list because I've gotten a few off-list responses
>> like the below message, and I want to make sure that everyone gets
>> this info. In my opinion, it's the biggest way to rid docs of
>> blindness-only formatting errors.
>>
>> By default, when you cut and paste into a word document from another
>> document, program, or website, Word will retain the original
>> formatting from that pasted text. That means that if you're fiile is
>> in Times New Roman size 12, but the text you paste is Calibri size 10,
>> you will be plopping a different font and size into your doc, and
>> anything you write going forward will be in that font and size. Same
>> goes for spacing, color, and any number of other attributes from
>> pasted text. My biggest piece of advice, and the advice I repeat most
>> often to blind folks, is to **turn this setting off!!.** It only
>> causes problems. And, in the rare instance where you do need to
>> preserve the original formatting, you can hit control immediately
>> after pasting and choose "keep source formatting," and any special
>> formatting will be retained.
>>
>> With so many iterations of word these days, I don't feel comfortable
>> typing out directions. But go spElunking in your ADVANCED word
>> options, Google, call Microsoft, whatever you need to do to find it.
>> Also note that there are two boxes, one for pasting between documents
>> and one for pasting between programs. They should both be set to
>> merge formatting. And while you're at it, turn off auto bullets and
>> auto numbering, and check the box that says "set left- and right-
>> indent with tabs and backspaces." This will mean you'll need to press
>> tab every time you start a new paragraph. However, it will also mean
>> that you won't have paragraphs randomly indented a third of the way
>> into the page because Word decided to do something stupid using its
>> very smart "auto" features.
>>
>> Also be aware that you will have to do this separately in outlook as
>> well. Though it uses Word as a text processor, it has its own set of
>> options.
>>
>> Anyway, in the words of the infomercials, you should **immediately**
>> see **vast** and **life-changing** results! All kidding aside,
>> though, this is the first thing I do whenever I get a new job or
>> computer, and it has made an absolute world of difference to me and
>> the amount of errors that sighted folks need to fix.
>>
>> Happy formatting,
>> Laura
>>
>>> On 10/2/19, Kelby Carlson <kelbycarlson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Laura,
>>>
>>> This is definitely helpful. I admit I am not proficient at using a
>>> Braille display with my screen reader, and I'm sure this would be
>>> helpful. Do you use UEB to proof for things like formatting? In my
>>> experience it gives far more specific results than regular US braille.
>>> I assume you would still need some formatting such as fonts and
>>> colors spoken. (I only recently figured out that oftentimes color is
>>> included in things I copy and paste which ends up making certain
>>> sections of documents look very odd; thankfully my office is pretty
>>> good at bringing these formatting errors to my attention.)
>>>
>>> Hopefully these questions aren't bothersome; I have definitely
>>> realized how important these factors are since beginning work and I
>>> am still working out the best way of ensuring visual consistency in
>>> my documents.
>>>
>>>> On 10/2/19, Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Kelby,
>>>>
>>>> A nonbreaking space, like a nonbreaking hyphen, means that word
>>>> wrap will not break up whatever is on either side of it. So, for
>>>> instance, if you had the word burden--shifting, and for some reason
>>>> burden ended up on one line and shifting on another, you'd replace
>>>> the dash with a nonbreaking hyphen so that the word wouldn't be
>>>> chopped. A nonbreaking space is, in my experience, customarily
>>>> used between section and paragraph symbols and the number so as to
>>>> keep the two together. It's also used in between the periods of an
>>>> ellipsis. This all depends on the custom of the firm or court you
>>>> work for, of course. There is a setting in Jaws that is supposed
>>>> to read out nonbreaking characters (you can find it by activating
>>>> quick settings and typing in the word breaking), but this is
>>>> currently not functioning. Vispero is aware and has escalated it.
>>>>
>>>> As for formatting, I do most of my proofing in Braille. But I have
>>>> turned on the setting where Jaws will tell me when spacing changes,
>>>> which I find very helpful. I also have punctuation set to some,
>>>> but I've added some customary marks into that, like quotation marks.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this is helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>>> On 10/2/19, kelby carlson via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> How much formatting information do you all have your screen reader
>>>>> read as you are reading through a text? I now have mine set up to
>>>>> read close to everything while I'm in Word, and while it is kind
>>>>> of distracting it seems necessary for proofing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would love to know if there is anywhere that discusses the
>>>>> different kinds of hyphens and when to use them. And I have no
>>>>> idea what a non-breaking space is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:53 PM, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Great I’m glad the workaround is working again! By the way you
>>>>>> can
>> also
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> this to make Jaws pronounce non-breaking spaces, which also got
>>>>>> broken somewhere along the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:40 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Laura, I have Word 2016. I just changed the entries for \8220
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> \8221
>>>>>>> to left quote and right quote, respectively, in WordClassic.jdf.
>>>>>>> By default, both were set to the quote symbol (not sure which
>>>>>>> one). The changes seem to have taken. I think I will have to
>>>>>>> make sure I do
>> this
>>>>>>> for other dictionary files as well. Hopefully it works for you
>> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/well.+Hopefully+it+works+for+you?entry=gmail&source=g>.
>> I’m
>>>>>>> excited to have these pronounced differently.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Angie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US
>>>>>>> Attorney at Law
>>>>>>> [Loeb & Loeb LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/> Loeb and Loeb LLP
>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington, DC 20001
>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville | Washington, DC |
>>>>>>> San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong |
>>>>>>> www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Laura
>>>>>>> Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 6:27 PM
>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List <blindlaw at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk <laura.wolk at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Great! I will try again tomorrow. I just updated again today. I
>>>>>>> have ms word 2016, but I don't see why that would affect the
>>>>>>> dictionary manager.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 6:09 PM, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Laura,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, the most recent update of JAWS 2019 and office 365.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist in Appellate Law By The State Bar of
>>>>>>>> California Holstein, Taylor and Unitt A Professional
>>>>>>>> Corporation
>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103
>>>>>>>> Riverside, CA 92501
>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com
>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e>mailto:
>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:02 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>>> I used to do this, but I mentioned in an earlier message that
>>>>>>>> I'm no longer able to get the dictionary to change those pronunciations.
>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>> tole Vispero and they've replicated it. Are you using the
>>>>>>>> latest version of Jaws and is it working for you?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Rahul Bajaj via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It also does this if the document is an email attachment and
>>>>>>>>> viewed in html form.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2019, at 10:37 PM, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I have found that JAWS will do this if you have smart quotes
>>>>>>>>>> in a text file in notepad. I wish it did it in Word and
>>>>>>>>>> outlook. Since it does do it in Notepad, it seems it would
>>>>>>>>>> not be that difficult to port the behavior over to the Office
>>>>>>>>>> products.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or previous
>>>>>>>>>> e-mail messages attached to it may contain confidential
>>>>>>>>>> information that is legally privileged. If you are
>> not
>>>>>>>>>> the intended recipient, or a person responsible for
>>>>>>>>>> delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby
>>>>>>>>>> notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of
>>>>>>>>>> any of the information contained
>> in
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> attached to this transmission is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you
>>>>>>>>>> have received this transmission in error, please immediately
>>>>>>>>>> notify the sender. Please destroy the original transmission
>>>>>>>>>> and its attachments without reading or saving in any manner.
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP.
>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>> rg>>
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2019 4:35 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Really? Not in my experience. Can you give us an example of
>>>>>>>>>> what you mean?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/1/19, Brian Unitt via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> JAWS does this as well.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>>>>> Brian C. Unitt
>>>>>>>>>>> Certified Specialist, Appellate Law The State Bar of
>>>>>>>>>>> California Board of Legal Specialization
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Holstein, Taylor and Unitt
>>>>>>>>>>> A Professional Corporation
>>>>>>>>>>> 4300 Latham Street, Suite 103 Riverside, CA 92501
>>>>>>>>>>> Tel: 951-682-7030
>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: 951-684-8061
>>>>>>>>>>> www.holsteinlaw.com
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.holsteinlaw.com%3cBR%3e%3e>>mailto:
>> brianunitt at holsteinlaw
>>>>>>>>>>> <%3emailto:brianunitt at holsteinlaw%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e> .com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.
>>>>>>>>>>> org
>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.o
>> rg
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Kelby Carlson via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 10:30 AM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Kelby Carlson
>>>>>>>>>>> <kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com<mailto:
>> kelbycarlson at gmail.com%3cmailto:kelbycarlson at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For anybody who uses NVDA, you can tell if a quote is a
>>>>>>>>>>> smart quote because NVDA will say left/right quote, not just
>>>>>>>>>>> quote.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/28/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair point, Ger. And then to hold me accountable going
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>> if
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't fix them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/25/19, Gerard Sadlier
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <gerard.sadlier at gmail.com<mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com
>> <mailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com%3cmailto:gerard.sadlier at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I must say, I think the appropriate course for your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> under-graduate Professors to have followed would have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1. Mark on the substance (since to do otherwise would
>> presumably
>>>>>>>>>>>>> effect your grades and therefore have a disproportionate
>>>>>>>>>>>>> impact on your future); and 2. To tell you they were doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> so and why and explain the issues with content.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kind regards
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Right, exactly. I submitted paper upon paper upon paper
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in undergrad with these errors. I was judged based on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "substance,"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because that's what the profs thought was "equitable." In
>> fact,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it wasn't.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Because no one's going to care about "equity" when you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tasked with drafting something for a client. This is why
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I really think this is in the back of people's minds...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how much extra work are we going to need to put in to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make her work look presentable?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And you are right, Angie. People just don't think to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell. And they see this stuff and think, it'll only take
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a second for me to fix this... No harm, no foul.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My example is that I never had Braille marking/sound
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> schemes turned on for highlighting. I never really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thought about highlighting.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But people at my Firm would highlight things that needed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be filled in when filing, such as the final word count
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the submission date. So although I would fill in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything, they were still in yellow. My assistant was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just changing everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> After I had yet another uncomfortable conversation about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how I knew she thought she was helping, and I really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> appreciated it, etc etc etc etc etc, she told me she'd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make sure to tell me if anything similar came up in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com<mailto:
>> laura.wolk at gmail.com%3cmailto:laura.wolk at gmail.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ha. You are all proving my point, sadly. The same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happened to me, except htat my law review editor pointed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it out. The same thing happens with an apostrophe. A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "straight" apostrophe is ascii value 39, and curly smart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> apostrophes are 8216 and
>> 8217.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hate to tell you, Angie, but any apostrophes would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come out as straight when drafted in note pad too. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can also
>> happen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when copy/pasting from Westlaw or briefs or pdfs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have been asking people at Vispero to make it possible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to customize the Jaws word dictionary so that you can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> add 34 and replace it with the word "straight quote" and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise with the straight apostrophe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This used to work, but doesn't anymore. But since Jaws
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems to be so tempermental these days, you might give
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it a go and see if it works for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And no, there is no Braille differences between these
>> symbols.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I, too, check for underlying ascii values. I also do a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> control+F
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before submitting any document, searching for a ^34 and ^39.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Placing a caret before the number causes word to search
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the ascii value.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fascinating. JAWS doesn't tell me there's any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> difference whatsoever.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you access the ASCII information? Similarly, how
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the world do we learn these things while we're still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in school?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Angela Matney via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I will do my best to describe them. I will only talk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about double quotes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Straight quotes are tapered, with the narrow end at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the bottom.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The widest point is at the top. There is only one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> symbol that represents the quotation mark, whether it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is an opening quote or a closing quote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Curly quotes are also tapered, with the narrow point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the bottom, but they are curved. The opening quote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is shaped similar to a print letter “C,”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve facing to the right. The closing quote, on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the right of the enclosed material, is shaped like a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards “C,”
>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its curve faces to the left. It is almost like they
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are enclosing the material.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I guess literary braille technically uses smart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quotes, since the opening and closing quotes are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I guess you could use two apostrophes to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> represent both opening and closing quotes in braille,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I really don’t see that very often. I don’t think
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> braille has an equivalent for the straight quote, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone please jump in and correct me
>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “Here is a sentence enclosed in smart quotes.”
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Here is a sentence enclosed in straight quotes."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I created the second sentence by typing in Notepad and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pasting it into this email.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you tell the difference?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angela Matney, CIPP/US Attorney at Law [Loeb & Loeb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LLP]<http://www.loeb.com/> Loeb and Loeb LLP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 901 New York Avenue NW, Suite 300 East | Washington,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 20001
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Direct Dial: 202.618.5038 | Fax:202.403.3407 |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-mail:amatney at loeb.com<mailto:amatney at loeb.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Los Angeles | New York | Chicago | Nashville |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Washington, DC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> | San Francisco | Beijing | Hong Kong |
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.loeb.com<http://www.loeb.com><http://www.loeb.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://www.loeb.com/>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3chttp:/
>> www.loeb.com/%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> <%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e%3e> ________________________________ CONFIDENTIALITY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOTICE:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> e-mail transmission, and any documents, files or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> previous e-mail messages attached to it may contain
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential information that is legally privileged.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you are not the intended recipient, or a person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> responsible for delivering it to the intended
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of any of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> information contained in or attached to this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you have received this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transmission in error, please immediately notify the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender. Please destroy the original transmission and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its attachments without reading
>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saving in any manner. Thank you, Loeb & Loeb LLP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g>> On Behalf Of Ray Wayne via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com<mailto:
>> rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com%3cmailto:rwayne1 at nyc.rr.com>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wondering that also. Is there a Braille symbol
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a smart quote?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ray Wayne, New York City
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.or%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> g<mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindlaw-bounces%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @nfbnet.org>>> On Behalf Of Shannon via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 4:18 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: 'Blind Law Mailing List'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindla
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailto:blindla%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> w at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:w at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Shannon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:
>> sbg at sbgaal.com%3c
>>>>>>> <mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%
>> 3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3c%0b>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry Laura,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry, I was trying to do too many things at once. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> question was regarding knowing the difference between
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a straight and smart quote/apostrophe?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not sure I know what a smart quote is. Can you
>> explain.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon Brady Geihsler
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Law Office of Shannon Brady Geihsler, PLLC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1212 Texas Avenue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lubbock, Texas 79401
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Office: (806) 763-3999
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mobile: (806) 781-9296
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fax: (806) 749-3752
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com<mailto:sbg at sbgaal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .com
>> %3cm<mailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal.com%3cmailto:sbg at sbgaal
>> .com
>> %3cm>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ailto:sbg at sbgaal.com>> This email may contain material
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> confidential, privileged and/or attorney work product
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> review, reliance or distribution by others or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarding without express permission is strictly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the sender and delete all copies.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: BlindLaw [mailto:blindlaw-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Laura Wolk via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2019 2:36 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To: Blind Law Mailing List
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cc: Laura Wolk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [blindLaw] Discrimination
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shannon, would you mind repeating your question? I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't quite understand what you are trying to ask.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As to the broader conversation, I think what I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trying to get at is that we have to face the sad but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true reality that there are, in fact, blind attorneys
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there who produce work of lesser visual quality,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whose firms or legal assistants or whatever come along
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> behind and clean up the work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happens. And no one ever tells the person, so, as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Angie said, the person continues to remain unaware of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the errors they make over and over again, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people continue to believe
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the blind person is not as capable as the rest of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their peers.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This has happened to me also. I have even had
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations where I initially pressed the superior
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to give me blind specific feedback, they said nothing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was wrong, then I pressed and said "this is very
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> important to me. Whatever you tell me, I will be able
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to figure out a way to address it." And then they did
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give me some feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> friend and former co-clerk works with a blind guy and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> noticed that his emails were formatted whackily. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> junior partner told my friend not to say anything but,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being friends with me, he knew it was the right thing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, the blind attorney was very grateful and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit embarrassed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the stuff I'm talking about. We need to be real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about
>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soft skills help we need, and we need to create
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> awareness that is indeed OK to tell a blind person
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, Just an FYI, you are occasionally doing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something that makes your documents look strange."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Laura and all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for such an enlightening discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> surrounding employment discrimination. I have planned
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conversations with a couple of attorneys responsible
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for hiring associates
>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will ask them for more information. Laura, I will
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> send you an email off-list to learn more from your
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perspective.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law
>> school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> following graduation and licensure. Now, that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> temporary position is ending next Monday. And,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> months to find work, I have no employment lined up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter at this point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and James have done an excellent job of giving you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all you should consider in looking to go to law school.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was initially reluctant to do any disability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rights related work in law school because I did not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> want to be placed in that box either.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But, I looked for work in that area assuming that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> employers in that area might be a bit more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding and educated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was wrong. Do not assume that those who practice
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disability rights law are any less susceptible to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the biases, misperceptions, or lack of understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that leads to employment discrimination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> educating folks on the reality that blind or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local bar has created a Taskforce to address, among
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other issues, employment discrimination against
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> persons with disabilities in the legal profession.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We are trying to provide education to members of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hopes that this will alleviate some
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the underlying causes of employment discrimination.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is done by presenting at meetings of the local
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bench and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writings like the blog post linked below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalis%3cBR%3e%3
>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> m-Co
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mmitt
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali
>>>>>>> <https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionali%3cB
>>>>>>> R%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> sm-C
>>>>>>>>>> <
>> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-C%0b>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ommitt%3cBR%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ee
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good reasons for people like myself and Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pursuing a
>> legal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> degree? I took the LSAT this past Saturday. I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proud
>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that for whatever it’s worth.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anecdotes provide a majority of what we used to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fill our sales.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> existence of
>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> phenomenon such as the one you indicate Cody. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have worried that someone will see my GPA and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> somehow assume that all of my professors have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> independently decided to be generous and grant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grades which I do not deserve. This
>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course irrational but still what I’m hearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> supports that fear.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am interested in a few different areas of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law. I
>> am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not particularly drawn to disability rights. One of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the reasons why is that I don’t want to be silo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a field which others expect me to enter. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don’t want to be limited to practice law in an area
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> related to one of my most visible and perceptibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> limiting characteristics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of that said, I can see how that may be the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> most excepting field of practice.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dictation errors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am following my one year-old around as I compose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don’t have time to perfect this dispatch.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James’ point is spot on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’
>> observation
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is that the experience a blind candidate may
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possess by way of externships and internships does
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seem to assuage employers’ concerns about the candidates’
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to practice. Despite my four externships during
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school in which I was able to perform the work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assigned to the satisfaction of my supervisors, I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> think employers still doubt my abilities to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver the work they expect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shouldn’t my history of success in the workplace
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence my ability to thrive in practice?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in general have no issue trusting that I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> capable to do something, so long as I am not being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> securing volunteer or community involvement
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> opportunities. .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> performance in law school being seen as a parlor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> license, I was asked in a
>> job
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interview how I got those things if I can’t read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a physical book. They seemed to be under the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impression that someone must have helped me with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all my
>> schooling.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> treated by other attorneys when they find out I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have my own firm versus how I was treated when I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was first out of
>> school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and looking for a job.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you work for yourself other attorneys see you as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> someone they can potentially work with and it is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to
>> make
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intense than I thought it would be before
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entering the profession.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Meredith Ballard
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:
>> blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%
>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stimulus
>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart break.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 716-563-9882 <tel:716-563-9882>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%20%
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %20%25%0b>>>>
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %20%25%0b>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blind, also an attorney, practicing for quite
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some time now--that many employers pretty much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice. I think he's right, and it makes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great deal of sense in light of my experience.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> law school, which is still extremely important
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> by the way, with all the things that law school
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't prepare you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for: taking depositions, handling contentious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documents, and, of course, handling evidence
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with any kind of visual aspect to it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> these things before being?? seen as potentially
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> able to do them in practice. I understand that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things are somewhat less grim for people who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have clerkships. I will
>> soon
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> find out if this is true in my own case. I also
>> don't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know if the same fears cloud employers'
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> judgments in a transactional or compliance??
>> setting,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given the nature of the work. So, be prepared
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possible candidate, so that you can be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> competitive for opportunities
>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can act as a bridge to a long-term, full-time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my
>> naive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self thought when I was first licensed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho
>> Steele-Louchart
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg
>> <mailt
>>>>>>> <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org
>> %3cmailt%0b>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> o:blindlaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> found hiring practices so far? Messages are
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> welcome on
>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> off-list.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Warmth,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> __ BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
>> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmail
>> to>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> .org
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e
>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> g
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o%3cBR%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> rg%3 cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.o%3cBR%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> rg%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3chtt
>>>>>>> p:/
>> nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%253%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3
>> e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3ecBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>> %3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> BlindLaw:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e
>> %3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> /cjd
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> avis9
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or
>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.or%3cBR%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> %3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>> g/cj
>>>>>>>>>> <http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindlaw_nfbnet.org/cj%0b
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>> <%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> davis9%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 193%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _ BlindLaw mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org
>> <mailto<mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto>:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.o
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rg
>> <mailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org%3cmailto:BlindLaw at nfbnet.org>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> g%3cBR%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e%3e
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> --
> Will Burley
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