[blindLaw] Discrimination

Tue Sep 24 19:14:46 UTC 2019

Laura and all,

Thank you for such an enlightening discussion surrounding employment
discrimination. I have planned conversations with a couple of
attorneys responsible for hiring associates and will ask them for more
information. Laura, I will send you an email off-list to learn more
from your perspective.

Warmth,
Sanho

On 9/24/19, Cody Davis via BlindLaw <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I was able to secure a temporary position at my law school following
> graduation and licensure. Now, that temporary position is ending next
> Monday. And, despite my wholehearted efforts over the last 6 months to find
> work, I have no employment lined up. (Somewhat jokingly) I’m far too bitter
> at this point to sell someone on a career in law. I think Meredith and James
> have done an excellent job of giving you all you should consider in looking
> to go to law school.
>
> I was initially reluctant to do any disability rights related work in law
> school because I did not want to be placed in that box either. But, I looked
> for work in that area assuming that employers in that area might be a bit
> more understanding and educated. I was wrong. Do not assume that those who
> practice disability rights law are any less susceptible to the biases,
> misperceptions, or lack of understanding that leads to employment
> discrimination.
>
> I think the best thing to do, James, is to continue educating folks on the
> reality that blind or visually impaired attorneys are as capable as their
> sighted counterparts in all but a very few ways. My local bar has created a
> Taskforce to address, among other issues, employment discrimination against
> persons with disabilities in the legal profession. We are trying to provide
> education to members of the bar on the capacity of lawyers with disabilities
> in the hopes that this will alleviate some of the underlying causes of
> employment discrimination. This is done by presenting at meetings of the
> local bench and bar, hosting CLE’s, and publishing writings like the blog
> post linked below.
>
> https://www.wakecountybar.org/blogpost/727449/Professionalism-Committee
>
>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 2:09 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Cody, James, Meredith, what might you all offer as good reasons for people
>> like myself and Sanho pursuing a legal degree? I took the LSAT this past
>> Saturday. I am proud of that for whatever it’s worth.
>>
>> That said, it can be hard to persevere when such anecdotes provide a
>> majority of what we used to fill our sales.
>>
>> Also, I have often been paranoid about the existence of a phenomenon such
>> as the one you indicate Cody. I have worried that someone will see my GPA
>> and somehow assume that all of my professors have independently decided to
>> be generous and grant grades which I do not deserve. This is of course
>> irrational but still what I’m hearing supports that fear.
>>
>> I am interested in a few different areas of the law. I am not particularly
>> drawn to disability rights. One of the reasons why is that I don’t want to
>> be silo into a field which others expect me to enter. I don’t want to be
>> limited to practice law in an area related to one of my most visible and
>> perceptibly limiting characteristics. All of that said, I can see how that
>> may be the most excepting field of practice.
>>
>> Damn darn heck! Anyway, please forgive some of the dictation errors. I am
>> following my one year-old around as I compose. I don’t have time to
>> perfect this dispatch.
>>
>> Thanks so much everyone for your insight.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Maura Kutnyak
>> 716-563-9882
>>
>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:52 PM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw
>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> James’ point is spot on.
>>>
>>> What I find even more disturbing than James’ observation is that the
>>> experience a blind candidate may possess by way of externships and
>>> internships does not seem to assuage employers’ concerns about the
>>> candidates’ ability to practice. Despite my four externships during law
>>> school in which I was able to perform the work assigned to the
>>> satisfaction of my supervisors, I think employers still doubt my
>>> abilities to deliver the work they expect. Shouldn’t my history of
>>> success in the workplace evidence my ability to thrive in practice?
>>>
>>> I have also found that fellow attorneys and people in general have no
>>> issue trusting that I am capable to do something, so long as I am not
>>> being paid to do it. I have absolutely no problem securing volunteer or
>>> community involvement opportunities. .
>>>
>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Meredith Ballard via BlindLaw
>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> James,
>>>>
>>>> I think you summed it up perfectly with performance in law school being
>>>> seen as a parlor trick. Despite the fact that I had a degree and a
>>>> license, I was asked in a job interview how I got those things if I
>>>> can’t read a physical book. They seemed to be under the impression that
>>>> someone must have helped me with all my schooling.
>>>>
>>>> I have noticed a big difference in how I am treated by other attorneys
>>>> when they find out I have my own firm versus how I was treated when I
>>>> was first out of school and looking for a job. When you work for
>>>> yourself other attorneys see you as someone they can potentially work
>>>> with and it is easier to make connections.
>>>>
>>>> Discrimination in the hiring process is more intense than I thought it
>>>> would be before entering the profession.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Meredith Ballard
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:44 PM, Maura Kutnyak via BlindLaw
>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> James, your candor is both refreshing and stimulus for heart break.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Maura Kutnyak
>>>>> 716-563-9882 <tel:716-563-9882>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:37 PM, James T. Fetter via BlindLaw
>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org <mailto:blindlaw at nfbnet.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I recently heard from a friend of mine--also blind, also an attorney,
>>>>>> practicing for quite some time now--that many employers pretty much
>>>>>> look at a blind person's success in law school as a "parlor trick" and
>>>>>> not an indication of your ability to thrive in practice. I think he's
>>>>>> right, and it makes a great deal of sense in light of my experience.
>>>>>> Too many employers do not equate doing well in law school, which is
>>>>>> still extremely important by the way, with all the things that law
>>>>>> school doesn't prepare you for: taking depositions, handling
>>>>>> contentious meetings with opposing counsel, reviewing documents, and,
>>>>>> of course, handling evidence with any kind of visual aspect to it. You
>>>>>> almost have to prove that you can do all of these things before
>>>>>> being?? seen as potentially able to do them in practice. I understand
>>>>>> that things are somewhat less grim for people who have clerkships. I
>>>>>> will soon find out if this is true in my own case. I also don't know
>>>>>> if the same fears cloud employers' judgments in a transactional or
>>>>>> compliance?? setting, given the nature of the work. So, be prepared
>>>>>> for a lot of rejection, but still be the best possible candidate, so
>>>>>> that you can be competitive for opportunities that can act as a bridge
>>>>>> to a long-term, full-time position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/24/2019 11:42 AM, Cody Davis via BlindLaw wrote:
>>>>>>> Remarkably discriminatory. Far more so than my naive self thought
>>>>>>> when I was first licensed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sep 24, 2019, at 10:43 AM, Sanho Steele-Louchart via BlindLaw
>>>>>>>> <blindlaw at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good morning. How discriminatory have you found hiring practices so
>>>>>>>> far? Messages are welcome on or off-list.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Warmth,
>>>>>>>> Sanho
>>>>>>>>
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