[Blindmath] Blindmath Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3
Lankford, Corinne
corinne.lankford at Vanderbilt.Edu
Thu Jun 3 18:49:59 UTC 2010
Thanks everyone! I was able to get the library to provide that assistance to the student when needed due to the fact that some older research materials are only available in books instead of online. The student is responsible for his personal needs like housing, getting familiar with campus, hygiene, etc. We only do classroom accommodations and anything that is non-academic is the student's responsibility. Have a great day everyone!
Corinne
Corinne Lankford
EAD Disability Services Specialist
New office title name: "Equal Opportunity, Affirmative Action, and Disability Services Department"
Vanderbilt University
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 12:00 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 47, Issue 3
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Questions about accommodations (Roopakshi Pathania)
2. Re: Questions about accommodations (Michael Whapples)
3. Re: Questions about accommodations (Steve Jacobson)
4. Re: Questions about accommodations
(Jennifer C. Allen-Barker, OTR/L)
5. Re: Questions about accommodations (Susan Mooney)
6. Re: Questions about accommodations (qubit)
7. Re: Questions about accommodations (Susan Mooney)
8. Re: Questions about accommodations (Birkir R?nar Gunnarsson)
9. Re: Questions about accommodations (Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC))
10. Re: Questions about accommodations (Susan Mooney)
11. Re: Questions about accommodations (Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC))
12. Re: Questions about accommodations (Jose Tamayo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 10:56:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Roopakshi Pathania <r_akshi_tgk at yahoo.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <51016.85219.qm at web38706.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi Rebecca,
I couldn't agree with you more
Here in India your are basically on your own as far as non-academic activities are concerned
I'm always surprised by the kind of issues related to spoonfeeding come up on this list.
Then again, perhaps what I view as spoonfeeding, others may look at it as essential facilities.
Regards
--- On Wed, 6/2/10, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
> From: Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, June 2, 2010, 6:51 PM
> Not sure assistance with cooking and
> batheing would fall into this discussion. The way I
> understand it, the question deals with support for math i.e.
> a reader/notetaker, not personal care which is what
> assistance with cooking and batheing would fall under.
> Also, I'd think that the blind student in question would be
> able to travel independently. I wouldn't use the "what if
> the building needs to be evacuated" as an excuse to not
> provide math support. After all, if the power goes out and a
> building needs to be vacated, those of you dependent on
> light will really wish you'd someone who is blind to help.
> Again, don't mix personal care and math support As I've
> stated before, readers and transcribers are not there to
> baby-sit.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
> On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:56 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
>
> Hello,
> Bernard has gone into much more detail than I would plan
> to.
>
> As far as it goes I think a request for support with study
> materials/lab
> work, etc is generally accepted as reasonable. I am totally
> blind and
> when I did my physics degree I received help with diagrams,
>
> notetaking/having lecture notes prepared in Braille, lab
> assistance
> (they seemed to feel letting me loose with certain things
> like liquid
> nitrogen, darts, etc was not a good idea, but there were
> other things
> they helped me with such as taking readings from displays
> on equipment,
> etc). I am now doing a more desk based post graduate course
> with the
> open university and I still have some assistance with
> diagrams and bits
> of course material which is inaccessible (eg. the underline
> notation
> they are using in PDF documents, which my screen reader
> software is
> unable to detect).
>
> As for the matter of pay, I think it can vary so much. The
> important
> thing is that whoever provides the help should at least be
> able to
> understand the material even if they aren't specialist in
> the particular
> topic of the course module. As an example when I was at
> university
> studying my physics degree we ask about in the post
> graduates within the
> department, sometimes asking in the maths department as
> well. I am not
> fully sure what the university decided on paying them, but
> I seem to
> have a memory from somewhere that it may have been around
> ?8 to ?9 per
> hour (This was back between 2003 and 2007, sorry for the UK
> currency but
> that's what we tend to work in over in the UK). As a
> comparison,
> typically the open university go to an agency for this type
> of support
> (I think the agency charge about ?24 per hour) but we were
> unsure
> whether the agency could provide someone with sufficient
> technical
> skills for supporting me on my course, so the result is
> that one of the
> tutors for another module within the same subject has
> agreed to take on
> the work. Their pay is higher than that for those
> supporting me when I
> did my degree, but considering the distributed nature of
> the open
> university they do have a significant amount of travel to
> provide face
> to face support (it still comes in cheaper than the agency,
> just).
>
> Just to fill in on the other parts I noticed Bernard raise,
> I am totally
> blind but within a known environment I am able to move
> around with no
> issue (I have good cane skills) so evacuating a building
> was never a
> concern once I knew the layout of the building.
>
> As far as things outside study (cooking/washing/etc) as I
> think Bernard
> said doesn't come into it here in the UK, that sort of
> support should
> come from other places (the local social services,
> generally). However
> things like knowing the way around campus, how to get from
> home to the
> department and back, etc, may be even a little of the local
> area are
> things which may be worth considering.
>
> Michael Whapples
> On 06/01/2010 08:50 PM, Bernard M Diaz wrote:
> > Hi Corinne,
> >
> > In the UK this is a vexed issue because of cost, and
> who
> > pays - compounded, if the student is not a national.
> >
> > At my Higher Education institution (University), for
> my subject
> > (Computer Science), I've suggested that a "helper" (in
> UK parlance)
> > is vital, preferably with a science and also
> mathematics background.
> > This has been fully accepted in our two cases ...
> >
> > Payment is hourly, and we've established that between
> 20-30 hours
> > a week during term is required - the rate is
> marginally above what
> > we pay module student demonstrators.? The duties
> include coming with
> > the student to lectures and some seminars and
> tutorials, taking
> > notes and providing transcriptions of these in digital
> form that
> > can be voiced easily (i.e. copes with symbols in
> mathematical
> > expressions, and generates tactile and/or verbal
> digital descriptions
> > of diagrams/figures).? Also this person helps
> with problems encountered
> > using library and other facilities. [This is in
> addition to the
> > facilities that the student is expected to have:
> recording devices
> > etc, full copy of lecture notes in a variety of
> digital formats,
> > voicing soft/hardware, page to digital/voice scanning,
> etc].
> >
> > We've determined that a team doing this is just
> possible, but not
> > desirable, and for the students on the module - the
> time required
> > too onerous (however we encourage group and team
> working).? We also
> > have departmental back-up(2 hrs a week) available if
> necessary to
> > help with difficult areas (essential the diagrams
> associated with
> > "design", and with complex mathematical/logic areas).
> >
> > Our modules (4 each semester) consist approximately 12
> hours of
> > lecture contact time/week, approx. 4-8 contact
> tutorial and practical
> > time, and an assumption that the remaining time (up to
> a notional
> > 40 hrs) a week, is for preparation and private extra
> study. Our
> > semesters are 12 weeks.
> >
> > I'm working on the basis here of a completely blind
> student
> > that has excellent white cane/guide dog skills, who is
> completely
> > able independently, to look after themselves (e.g.
> cooking,
> > washing, etc). We have no remit to help there at all
> ...
> > (The white cane/guide dog skills arise because of a
> safety
> > requirement that a student is able to exit any
> building they
> > are in, in emergencies, unaided).
> >
> > All this is in addition to all staff (we include
> > clerical/management/technical and all academic staff)
> being alert
> > to the student's requirements and being aware of
> their, and the
> > Institutions legal obligations ...
> >
> > I suspect this does not help, as it is subject
> specific, but it
> > may provide a discussion ballpark ...
> >
> > Kind regards - Bernard Diaz.
> >
> > Lankford, Corinne wrote:
> >> Hi everyone!
> >>
> >> We currently have an incoming Graduate student for
> the fall semester
> >> which he has requested a research assistant.?
> Is this a common
> >> accommodation provided?? If so, how many
> hours and what is the usual
> >> rate?? I plan to check with the library to
> see if they have someone
> >> on staff that can provide this assistance.?
> Any opinions, advices,
> >> tip, etc. is greatly appreciated!
> >>
> >> Bests, Corinne
> >>
> >> Corinne Lankford EAD Disability Services
> Specialist New office title
> >> name:? "Equal Opportunity, Affirmative
> Action, and Disability
> >> Services Department" Vanderbilt University
> >>
> >> GPS Address:? ? ? ? 110 21st
> Ave. S., Nashville, TN 37203 Office
> >> Location:???Baker Building, Ste.
> 108 Internal Mail:? ? ???PMB
> 401809
> >>? Office Number:? ? 615-322-4705 Fax
> Number:? ? ? ? 615-343-0671 EAD
> >> Website:? ?
> ???www.vanderbilt.edu/ead
> >>
> >> * This message may contain confidential or
> privileged information. If
> >> you are not the intended recipient, please reply
> to the sender and
> >> completely delete this message from your computer
> system.
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing
> >> list Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To
> >> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> >> Blindmath:
> >> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/b.m.diaz%40liverpool.ac.uk
>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> > Blindmath:
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim.com
>
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for Blindmath:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
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>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 20:55:15 +0100
From: Michael Whapples <mwhapples at aim.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <4C06B723.50704 at aim.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I was trying to stress that personal care is totally a separate issue
and should not be considered by the college/university.
As for getting about, while it should not affect the maths support, it
is an issue which should be considered. If the student's mobility skills
are lacking then may be extra support on that should be provided as well
as that given for the maths. IE. If the student is unable to get to
lectures, how do you intend them to learn the material in the lecture?
Michael Whapples
On 06/02/2010 02:21 PM, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
> Not sure assistance with cooking and batheing would fall into this discussion. The way I understand it, the question deals with support for math i.e. a reader/notetaker, not personal care which is what assistance with cooking and batheing would fall under.
> Also, I'd think that the blind student in question would be able to travel independently. I wouldn't use the "what if the building needs to be evacuated" as an excuse to not provide math support. After all, if the power goes out and a building needs to be vacated, those of you dependent on light will really wish you'd someone who is blind to help.
> Again, don't mix personal care and math support As I've stated before, readers and transcribers are not there to baby-sit.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
> Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:56 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
>
> Hello,
> Bernard has gone into much more detail than I would plan to.
>
> As far as it goes I think a request for support with study materials/lab
> work, etc is generally accepted as reasonable. I am totally blind and
> when I did my physics degree I received help with diagrams,
> notetaking/having lecture notes prepared in Braille, lab assistance
> (they seemed to feel letting me loose with certain things like liquid
> nitrogen, darts, etc was not a good idea, but there were other things
> they helped me with such as taking readings from displays on equipment,
> etc). I am now doing a more desk based post graduate course with the
> open university and I still have some assistance with diagrams and bits
> of course material which is inaccessible (eg. the underline notation
> they are using in PDF documents, which my screen reader software is
> unable to detect).
>
> As for the matter of pay, I think it can vary so much. The important
> thing is that whoever provides the help should at least be able to
> understand the material even if they aren't specialist in the particular
> topic of the course module. As an example when I was at university
> studying my physics degree we ask about in the post graduates within the
> department, sometimes asking in the maths department as well. I am not
> fully sure what the university decided on paying them, but I seem to
> have a memory from somewhere that it may have been around ?8 to ?9 per
> hour (This was back between 2003 and 2007, sorry for the UK currency but
> that's what we tend to work in over in the UK). As a comparison,
> typically the open university go to an agency for this type of support
> (I think the agency charge about ?24 per hour) but we were unsure
> whether the agency could provide someone with sufficient technical
> skills for supporting me on my course, so the result is that one of the
> tutors for another module within the same subject has agreed to take on
> the work. Their pay is higher than that for those supporting me when I
> did my degree, but considering the distributed nature of the open
> university they do have a significant amount of travel to provide face
> to face support (it still comes in cheaper than the agency, just).
>
> Just to fill in on the other parts I noticed Bernard raise, I am totally
> blind but within a known environment I am able to move around with no
> issue (I have good cane skills) so evacuating a building was never a
> concern once I knew the layout of the building.
>
> As far as things outside study (cooking/washing/etc) as I think Bernard
> said doesn't come into it here in the UK, that sort of support should
> come from other places (the local social services, generally). However
> things like knowing the way around campus, how to get from home to the
> department and back, etc, may be even a little of the local area are
> things which may be worth considering.
>
> Michael Whapples
> On 06/01/2010 08:50 PM, Bernard M Diaz wrote:
>
>> Hi Corinne,
>>
>> In the UK this is a vexed issue because of cost, and who
>> pays - compounded, if the student is not a national.
>>
>> At my Higher Education institution (University), for my subject
>> (Computer Science), I've suggested that a "helper" (in UK parlance)
>> is vital, preferably with a science and also mathematics background.
>> This has been fully accepted in our two cases ...
>>
>> Payment is hourly, and we've established that between 20-30 hours
>> a week during term is required - the rate is marginally above what
>> we pay module student demonstrators. The duties include coming with
>> the student to lectures and some seminars and tutorials, taking
>> notes and providing transcriptions of these in digital form that
>> can be voiced easily (i.e. copes with symbols in mathematical
>> expressions, and generates tactile and/or verbal digital descriptions
>> of diagrams/figures). Also this person helps with problems encountered
>> using library and other facilities. [This is in addition to the
>> facilities that the student is expected to have: recording devices
>> etc, full copy of lecture notes in a variety of digital formats,
>> voicing soft/hardware, page to digital/voice scanning, etc].
>>
>> We've determined that a team doing this is just possible, but not
>> desirable, and for the students on the module - the time required
>> too onerous (however we encourage group and team working). We also
>> have departmental back-up(2 hrs a week) available if necessary to
>> help with difficult areas (essential the diagrams associated with
>> "design", and with complex mathematical/logic areas).
>>
>> Our modules (4 each semester) consist approximately 12 hours of
>> lecture contact time/week, approx. 4-8 contact tutorial and practical
>> time, and an assumption that the remaining time (up to a notional
>> 40 hrs) a week, is for preparation and private extra study. Our
>> semesters are 12 weeks.
>>
>> I'm working on the basis here of a completely blind student
>> that has excellent white cane/guide dog skills, who is completely
>> able independently, to look after themselves (e.g. cooking,
>> washing, etc). We have no remit to help there at all ...
>> (The white cane/guide dog skills arise because of a safety
>> requirement that a student is able to exit any building they
>> are in, in emergencies, unaided).
>>
>> All this is in addition to all staff (we include
>> clerical/management/technical and all academic staff) being alert
>> to the student's requirements and being aware of their, and the
>> Institutions legal obligations ...
>>
>> I suspect this does not help, as it is subject specific, but it
>> may provide a discussion ballpark ...
>>
>> Kind regards - Bernard Diaz.
>>
>> Lankford, Corinne wrote:
>>
>>> Hi everyone!
>>>
>>> We currently have an incoming Graduate student for the fall semester
>>> which he has requested a research assistant. Is this a common
>>> accommodation provided? If so, how many hours and what is the usual
>>> rate? I plan to check with the library to see if they have someone
>>> on staff that can provide this assistance. Any opinions, advices,
>>> tip, etc. is greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>> Bests, Corinne
>>>
>>> Corinne Lankford EAD Disability Services Specialist New office title
>>> name: "Equal Opportunity, Affirmative Action, and Disability
>>> Services Department" Vanderbilt University
>>>
>>> GPS Address: 110 21st Ave. S., Nashville, TN 37203 Office
>>> Location: Baker Building, Ste. 108 Internal Mail: PMB 401809
>>> Office Number: 615-322-4705 Fax Number: 615-343-0671 EAD
>>> Website: www.vanderbilt.edu/ead
>>>
>>> * This message may contain confidential or privileged information. If
>>> you are not the intended recipient, please reply to the sender and
>>> completely delete this message from your computer system.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Blindmath mailing
>>> list Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/b.m.diaz%40liverpool.ac.uk
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim.com
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/rebecca.pickrell%40ngc.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mwhapples%40aim.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:35:51 -0500
From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <auto-000022881944 at mailback1.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
This strikes me as an unusual way for the request to have been phrased. If Research Assistants are not generally provided to graduate students, this would seem to
not be the approach to be used here. I think there would need to be some clarification as to why there is a request specifically for a research assistant rather than
for help with locating and hiring readers who are familiar with the material.
Best regards,
Steve Jacobson
On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 09:21:27 -0400, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) wrote:
>Not sure assistance with cooking and batheing would fall into this discussion. The way I understand it, the question deals with support for math i.e. a
reader/notetaker, not personal care which is what assistance with cooking and batheing would fall under.
>Also, I'd think that the blind student in question would be able to travel independently. I wouldn't use the "what if the building needs to be evacuated" as an
excuse to not provide math support. After all, if the power goes out and a building needs to be vacated, those of you dependent on light will really wish you'd
someone who is blind to help.
>Again, don't mix personal care and math support As I've stated before, readers and transcribers are not there to baby-sit.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
>Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:56 PM
>To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
>Hello,
>Bernard has gone into much more detail than I would plan to.
>As far as it goes I think a request for support with study materials/lab
>work, etc is generally accepted as reasonable. I am totally blind and
>when I did my physics degree I received help with diagrams,
>notetaking/having lecture notes prepared in Braille, lab assistance
>(they seemed to feel letting me loose with certain things like liquid
>nitrogen, darts, etc was not a good idea, but there were other things
>they helped me with such as taking readings from displays on equipment,
>etc). I am now doing a more desk based post graduate course with the
>open university and I still have some assistance with diagrams and bits
>of course material which is inaccessible (eg. the underline notation
>they are using in PDF documents, which my screen reader software is
>unable to detect).
>As for the matter of pay, I think it can vary so much. The important
>thing is that whoever provides the help should at least be able to
>understand the material even if they aren't specialist in the particular
>topic of the course module. As an example when I was at university
>studying my physics degree we ask about in the post graduates within the
>department, sometimes asking in the maths department as well. I am not
>fully sure what the university decided on paying them, but I seem to
>have a memory from somewhere that it may have been around ?8 to ?9 per
>hour (This was back between 2003 and 2007, sorry for the UK currency but
>that's what we tend to work in over in the UK). As a comparison,
>typically the open university go to an agency for this type of support
>(I think the agency charge about ?24 per hour) but we were unsure
>whether the agency could provide someone with sufficient technical
>skills for supporting me on my course, so the result is that one of the
>tutors for another module within the same subject has agreed to take on
>the work. Their pay is higher than that for those supporting me when I
>did my degree, but considering the distributed nature of the open
>university they do have a significant amount of travel to provide face
>to face support (it still comes in cheaper than the agency, just).
>Just to fill in on the other parts I noticed Bernard raise, I am totally
>blind but within a known environment I am able to move around with no
>issue (I have good cane skills) so evacuating a building was never a
>concern once I knew the layout of the building.
>As far as things outside study (cooking/washing/etc) as I think Bernard
>said doesn't come into it here in the UK, that sort of support should
>come from other places (the local social services, generally). However
>things like knowing the way around campus, how to get from home to the
>department and back, etc, may be even a little of the local area are
>things which may be worth considering.
>Michael Whapples
>On 06/01/2010 08:50 PM, Bernard M Diaz wrote:
>> Hi Corinne,
>>
>> In the UK this is a vexed issue because of cost, and who
>> pays - compounded, if the student is not a national.
>>
>> At my Higher Education institution (University), for my subject
>> (Computer Science), I've suggested that a "helper" (in UK parlance)
>> is vital, preferably with a science and also mathematics background.
>> This has been fully accepted in our two cases ...
>>
>> Payment is hourly, and we've established that between 20-30 hours
>> a week during term is required - the rate is marginally above what
>> we pay module student demonstrators. The duties include coming with
>> the student to lectures and some seminars and tutorials, taking
>> notes and providing transcriptions of these in digital form that
>> can be voiced easily (i.e. copes with symbols in mathematical
>> expressions, and generates tactile and/or verbal digital descriptions
>> of diagrams/figures). Also this person helps with problems encountered
>> using library and other facilities. [This is in addition to the
>> facilities that the student is expected to have: recording devices
>> etc, full copy of lecture notes in a variety of digital formats,
>> voicing soft/hardware, page to digital/voice scanning, etc].
>>
>> We've determined that a team doing this is just possible, but not
>> desirable, and for the students on the module - the time required
>> too onerous (however we encourage group and team working). We also
>> have departmental back-up(2 hrs a week) available if necessary to
>> help with difficult areas (essential the diagrams associated with
>> "design", and with complex mathematical/logic areas).
>>
>> Our modules (4 each semester) consist approximately 12 hours of
>> lecture contact time/week, approx. 4-8 contact tutorial and practical
>> time, and an assumption that the remaining time (up to a notional
>> 40 hrs) a week, is for preparation and private extra study. Our
>> semesters are 12 weeks.
>>
>> I'm working on the basis here of a completely blind student
>> that has excellent white cane/guide dog skills, who is completely
>> able independently, to look after themselves (e.g. cooking,
>> washing, etc). We have no remit to help there at all ...
>> (The white cane/guide dog skills arise because of a safety
>> requirement that a student is able to exit any building they
>> are in, in emergencies, unaided).
>>
>> All this is in addition to all staff (we include
>> clerical/management/technical and all academic staff) being alert
>> to the student's requirements and being aware of their, and the
>> Institutions legal obligations ...
>>
>> I suspect this does not help, as it is subject specific, but it
>> may provide a discussion ballpark ...
>>
>> Kind regards - Bernard Diaz.
>>
>> Lankford, Corinne wrote:
>>> Hi everyone!
>>>
>>> We currently have an incoming Graduate student for the fall semester
>>> which he has requested a research assistant. Is this a common
>>> accommodation provided? If so, how many hours and what is the usual
>>> rate? I plan to check with the library to see if they have someone
>>> on staff that can provide this assistance. Any opinions, advices,
>>> tip, etc. is greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>> Bests, Corinne
>>>
>>> Corinne Lankford EAD Disability Services Specialist New office title
>>> name: "Equal Opportunity, Affirmative Action, and Disability
>>> Services Department" Vanderbilt University
>>>
>>> GPS Address: 110 21st Ave. S., Nashville, TN 37203 Office
>>> Location: Baker Building, Ste. 108 Internal Mail: PMB 401809
>>> Office Number: 615-322-4705 Fax Number: 615-343-0671 EAD
>>> Website: www.vanderbilt.edu/ead
>>>
>>> * This message may contain confidential or privileged information. If
>>> you are not the intended recipient, please reply to the sender and
>>> completely delete this message from your computer system.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Blindmath mailing
>>> list Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> Blindmath:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/b.m.diaz%40liverpool.ac.uk
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 13:23:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jennifer C. Allen-Barker, OTR/L" <jcbarker at calpoly.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID:
<2004696726.1783811275510218028.JavaMail.root at przmms03.its.calpoly.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
In the USA, lab/library/research assistants would be considered appropriate during class times, however assistants for time outside of class to study or prepare for class would fall under "personal assistant" I understand.? In the former, the university would be responsible for finding and paying for such assistants; whereas the personal assistant would not be paid for by the university, but by the student.? Many students come to higher education with some financial funding from the nation-wide department of rehabilitation system, which would likely pay for personal assitants time, or share the cost with the student.? Most university libraries offer research assistance through their skilled librarian staff, so this would also be available to this student.? The university I work at is partially supported by state (tax-payer) funds and partially by student fees.? Private universities may choose to offer tutors at no cost to the student who might also be used for personal study!
time assistance.? The university would provide note-taking assistance as needed, and could provide campus orietation training, however the department of rehabilitation could also take a role in the campus orientation and would be responsible for community orientation.? Any disability related accommodations and services provided by the university are provided at no charge to the student with disability.
Jennifer C. Allen-Barker, OTR/L
Access Specialist
Disability Resource Center
CA Polytechnic State Uni.
805-756-0134
jcbarker at calpoly.edu ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rebecca M Pickrell (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 2, 2010 6:21:27 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Not sure assistance with cooking and batheing would fall into this discussion. The way I understand it, the question deals with support for math i.e. a reader/notetaker, not personal care which is what assistance with cooking and batheing would fall under.
Also, I'd think that the blind student in question would be able to travel independently. I wouldn't use the "what if the building needs to be evacuated" as an excuse to not provide math support. After all, if the power goes out and a building needs to be vacated, those of you dependent on light will really wish you'd someone who is blind to help.
Again, don't mix personal care and math support As I've stated before, readers and transcribers are not there to baby-sit.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Michael Whapples
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2010 5:56 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Hello,
Bernard has gone into much more detail than I would plan to.
As far as it goes I think a request for support with study materials/lab
work, etc is generally accepted as reasonable. I am totally blind and
when I did my physics degree I received help with diagrams,
notetaking/having lecture notes prepared in Braille, lab assistance
(they seemed to feel letting me loose with certain things like liquid
nitrogen, darts, etc was not a good idea, but there were other things
they helped me with such as taking readings from displays on equipment,
etc). I am now doing a more desk based post graduate course with the
open university and I still have some assistance with diagrams and bits
of course material which is inaccessible (eg. the underline notation
they are using in PDF documents, which my screen reader software is
unable to detect).
As for the matter of pay, I think it can vary so much. The important
thing is that whoever provides the help should at least be able to
understand the material even if they aren't specialist in the particular
topic of the course module. As an example when I was at university
studying my physics degree we ask about in the post graduates within the
department, sometimes asking in the maths department as well. I am not
fully sure what the university decided on paying them, but I seem to
have a memory from somewhere that it may have been around ?8 to ?9 per
hour (This was back between 2003 and 2007, sorry for the UK currency but
that's what we tend to work in over in the UK). As a comparison,
typically the open university go to an agency for this type of support
(I think the agency charge about ?24 per hour) but we were unsure
whether the agency could provide someone with sufficient technical
skills for supporting me on my course, so the result is that one of the
tutors for another module within the same subject has agreed to take on
the work. Their pay is higher than that for those supporting me when I
did my degree, but considering the distributed nature of the open
university they do have a significant amount of travel to provide face
to face support (it still comes in cheaper than the agency, just).
Just to fill in on the other parts I noticed Bernard raise, I am totally
blind but within a known environment I am able to move around with no
issue (I have good cane skills) so evacuating a building was never a
concern once I knew the layout of the building.
As far as things outside study (cooking/washing/etc) as I think Bernard
said doesn't come into it here in the UK, that sort of support should
come from other places (the local social services, generally). However
things like knowing the way around campus, how to get from home to the
department and back, etc, may be even a little of the local area are
things which may be worth considering.
Michael Whapples
On 06/01/2010 08:50 PM, Bernard M Diaz wrote:
> Hi Corinne,
>
> In the UK this is a vexed issue because of cost, and who
> pays - compounded, if the student is not a national.
>
> At my Higher Education institution (University), for my subject
> (Computer Science), I've suggested that a "helper" (in UK parlance)
> is vital, preferably with a science and also mathematics background.
> This has been fully accepted in our two cases ...
>
> Payment is hourly, and we've established that between 20-30 hours
> a week during term is required - the rate is marginally above what
> we pay module student demonstrators. ?The duties include coming with
> the student to lectures and some seminars and tutorials, taking
> notes and providing transcriptions of these in digital form that
> can be voiced easily (i.e. copes with symbols in mathematical
> expressions, and generates tactile and/or verbal digital descriptions
> of diagrams/figures). ?Also this person helps with problems encountered
> using library and other facilities. [This is in addition to the
> facilities that the student is expected to have: recording devices
> etc, full copy of lecture notes in a variety of digital formats,
> voicing soft/hardware, page to digital/voice scanning, etc].
>
> We've determined that a team doing this is just possible, but not
> desirable, and for the students on the module - the time required
> too onerous (however we encourage group and team working). ?We also
> have departmental back-up(2 hrs a week) available if necessary to
> help with difficult areas (essential the diagrams associated with
> "design", and with complex mathematical/logic areas).
>
> Our modules (4 each semester) consist approximately 12 hours of
> lecture contact time/week, approx. 4-8 contact tutorial and practical
> time, and an assumption that the remaining time (up to a notional
> 40 hrs) a week, is for preparation and private extra study. Our
> semesters are 12 weeks.
>
> I'm working on the basis here of a completely blind student
> that has excellent white cane/guide dog skills, who is completely
> able independently, to look after themselves (e.g. cooking,
> washing, etc). We have no remit to help there at all ...
> (The white cane/guide dog skills arise because of a safety
> requirement that a student is able to exit any building they
> are in, in emergencies, unaided).
>
> All this is in addition to all staff (we include
> clerical/management/technical and all academic staff) being alert
> to the student's requirements and being aware of their, and the
> Institutions legal obligations ...
>
> I suspect this does not help, as it is subject specific, but it
> may provide a discussion ballpark ...
>
> Kind regards - Bernard Diaz.
>
> Lankford, Corinne wrote:
>> Hi everyone!
>>
>> We currently have an incoming Graduate student for the fall semester
>> which he has requested a research assistant. ?Is this a common
>> accommodation provided? ?If so, how many hours and what is the usual
>> rate? ?I plan to check with the library to see if they have someone
>> on staff that can provide this assistance. ?Any opinions, advices,
>> tip, etc. is greatly appreciated!
>>
>> Bests, Corinne
>>
>> Corinne Lankford EAD Disability Services Specialist New office title
>> name: ?"Equal Opportunity, Affirmative Action, and Disability
>> Services Department" Vanderbilt University
>>
>> GPS Address: ? ? ? ?110 21st Ave. S., Nashville, TN 37203 Office
>> Location: ? Baker Building, Ste. 108 Internal Mail: ? ? ? PMB 401809
>> ?Office Number: ? ?615-322-4705 Fax Number: ? ? ? ?615-343-0671 EAD
>> Website: ? ? ? www.vanderbilt.edu/ead
>>
>> * This message may contain confidential or privileged information. If
>> you are not the intended recipient, please reply to the sender and
>> completely delete this message from your computer system.
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Blindmath mailing
>> list Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/b.m.diaz%40liverpool.ac.uk
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Blindmath:
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>
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:44:49 -0400
From: "Susan Mooney" <slemooney at msn.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <BAY121-DS16EC789BB554B051EFA54AA0D00 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I may be daft, but if you're a graduate student, I sincerely hope you can find your way around campus, take a bath, dress yourself and figure out how to get a meal into your stomach. Yikes! I would think readers would be in order but an "assistant" sounds like a big order. Perhaps the school misunderstood the original request?
SM
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 16:32:21 -0500
From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <563F36B73BF6411BBFC749BB38A0B8AE at bassclef>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Well, that is true in general, but at UA where I did my graduate work, there
were a half dozen or so quadroplegic students who indeed had personal
attendants. Always there is someone who needs what you normally take for
granted no one needs.
One such student was a man who had broken his neck in a diving accident at
age 17. He married at age 23, and indeed he hired a personal attendant.
(He and his wife also had children later on. I didn't ask for details....)
And also, in between total incapacity and total health, I myself use a
wheelchair and have paid people to shop and clean for me and help out on
occasion.
As for the school picking up the bill, they did not -- the students were
responsible for making those types of arrangements themselves, and most
often it worked out well.
Now back to blindness, I think a blind person should also take care of
learning personal skills and not leave that up to the school.
Off soap box.
--le
----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Mooney" <slemooney at msn.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 3:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
I may be daft, but if you're a graduate student, I sincerely hope you can
find your way around campus, take a bath, dress yourself and figure out how
to get a meal into your stomach. Yikes! I would think readers would be in
order but an "assistant" sounds like a big order. Perhaps the school
misunderstood the original request?
SM
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 06:29:26 -0400
From: "Susan Mooney" <slemooney at msn.com>
To: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>, "Blind Math list for those
interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <BAY121-DS11AFD5C7BE5472B81C30AAA0D10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Totally understood in the case of a student who's a quad, le, but not for a regular ol' blind student who managed to get into a top notch university's graduate program. That student should be expected to be able to take care of him/herself.
SM
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 11:38:04 +0000
From: Birkir R?nar Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinZhqLjViD2HT0coXm1i9CvkyfkUjfy2CwV4ab1 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I disagree somewhat.
Take care of him/herself, yes, but things like
cooking/cleaning/laundry/getting around may take up an exceptional
amount of time from the actual studying, which presumably is the
reason the student is there, so some assistance to the student in that
area is not entirely unwarranted.
I had quite a crunch time when I got my math material a month late
with midterms coming up and I was very glad to have someone I could
pay to help me with errands and laundry when I was trying to catch up.
With regards to O&M, I belive the university disability office should
be familiar wit the local agencies and assist a student in getting
sufficient O&M training for classes and most frequent routes.
One could argue that such personal assistance is unreasonable but,
based on my experience, I think it can make a huge difference to get 2
ro 3 hours of personal assistance time a week and that can also lead
to better academic performance.
On 6/3/10, Susan Mooney <slemooney at msn.com> wrote:
> Totally understood in the case of a student who's a quad, le, but not for a
> regular ol' blind student who managed to get into a top notch university's
> graduate program. That student should be expected to be able to take care
> of him/herself.
>
> SM
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson%40gmail.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 08:06:11 -0400
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID:
<6A56D82ACD5A414390131171CDC0E28202D20E62 at xmbv3802.northgrum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Even if that person cannot that type of assistance should be considered
separately from any math type assistance.
Also, I am uncomfortable with "the university" deciding how well I get
around, remember if you can see, you've got signs and other things you
can just look at to help so you know that "the exit" is over here, the
ladies' room is over here, the snack bar is someplace else. Take away
those signs and people who can see are not nearly as independent as
anybody likes to think.
I also am very uncomfortable with the question of "what type of
assistance will this person need" being tied to whether or not that
person gets admitted to the university.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Susan Mooney
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:29 AM
To: qubit; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Totally understood in the case of a student who's a quad, le, but not
for a regular ol' blind student who managed to get into a top notch
university's graduate program. That student should be expected to be
able to take care of him/herself.
SM
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ell%40ngc.com
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 08:56:19 -0400
From: "Susan Mooney" <slemooney at msn.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <BAY121-DS1432A87E1EC581AA46AD59A0D10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I still disagree. My daughter is in graduate school and is sighted and chooses not to drive. There are times when she cannot get her laundry done, run errands, and get her apartment clean, and even eat decent meals because she has so much studying to do. The university doesn't pay for her to get an assistant to do those things! If she wants to hire a cleaning lady or errand-runner on her own, that's entirely different. The same after graduation. There will be times when your work life and/or family life is so stressed and demanding that you don't have time to clean, run errands and cook. You deal. Don't have time to cook? There's take-out or frozen meals! That's life. And besides, the post I was referring to included bathing. If you've got a blind student who is able-bodied and in graduate school (or beyond kindergarten for that matter) and s/he can't bathe independently, there's going to be a small problem when that student tries to find a job. As a (retired) teac!
her of the visually impaired, I shudder to think that there's a blind university student who cannot take a bath on his/her own.
And I also agree that admitting a student based upon whether the school is going to make accommodations smacks of non-compliance. I hope that's not what the original post is implying.
SM
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 10:59:05 -0400
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID:
<6A56D82ACD5A414390131171CDC0E28202D20FD7 at xmbv3802.northgrum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Not the university's problem though. We all have stuff we have to do. I'd argue that in your case, the university should have had your math materials to you on time and had that happened you wouldn't have needed to scramble at the end of term.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Birkir R?nar Gunnarsson
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 7:38 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
I disagree somewhat.
Take care of him/herself, yes, but things like
cooking/cleaning/laundry/getting around may take up an exceptional
amount of time from the actual studying, which presumably is the
reason the student is there, so some assistance to the student in that
area is not entirely unwarranted.
I had quite a crunch time when I got my math material a month late
with midterms coming up and I was very glad to have someone I could
pay to help me with errands and laundry when I was trying to catch up.
With regards to O&M, I belive the university disability office should
be familiar wit the local agencies and assist a student in getting
sufficient O&M training for classes and most frequent routes.
One could argue that such personal assistance is unreasonable but,
based on my experience, I think it can make a huge difference to get 2
ro 3 hours of personal assistance time a week and that can also lead
to better academic performance.
On 6/3/10, Susan Mooney <slemooney at msn.com> wrote:
> Totally understood in the case of a student who's a quad, le, but not for a
> regular ol' blind student who managed to get into a top notch university's
> graduate program. That student should be expected to be able to take care
> of him/herself.
>
> SM
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/birkir.gunnarsson%40gmail.com
>
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------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 2010 12:14:25 -0400
From: "Jose Tamayo" <jtblas at hotmail.com>
To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP228251531A7029590A2A4BCDD10 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I often wonder what the word "take care of him/herself" means and what right
we think we have to categorize anyone particular person because of our
specific experience. If you are going into a top notch university, it does
not mean you are able to take care of yourself; it means you have a
particular set of skills that placed you there. I know individuals who have
been to "top notch" universities and I vcan bring up a long list of things
that they can't take care of, including coursework.
Pardon my wording but : It is unfair and narrow minded to classify people
based on anything other than that person's experience. The accommodations
cannot be based on a general set of rules founded on assumptions. Each
person must be evaluated and unique set of services provided for the
individual.
Regards,
Jose Tamayo
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 8:06 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Even if that person cannot that type of assistance should be considered
separately from any math type assistance.
Also, I am uncomfortable with "the university" deciding how well I get
around, remember if you can see, you've got signs and other things you
can just look at to help so you know that "the exit" is over here, the
ladies' room is over here, the snack bar is someplace else. Take away
those signs and people who can see are not nearly as independent as
anybody likes to think.
I also am very uncomfortable with the question of "what type of
assistance will this person need" being tied to whether or not that
person gets admitted to the university.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org]
On Behalf Of Susan Mooney
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 6:29 AM
To: qubit; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Questions about accommodations
Totally understood in the case of a student who's a quad, le, but not
for a regular ol' blind student who managed to get into a top notch
university's graduate program. That student should be expected to be
able to take care of him/herself.
SM
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