[Blindmath] Colllege calculus Questions

Sun Jun 27 21:38:19 UTC 2010

I think that if you are fairly comfortable with grade 2 braille, you
will do fine with Nemeth. The thing with nemeth is that it's very
fancy. While I am not a math major, and in fact am not fond of the
subject, I did do calc in high school. And I found it useful to create
my own short hand especially when trying to solve a problem with many
steps. Have a handy nemeth symbol book by and you should be ok. I have
never used any of the math software so I'll leave that to the experts.
And just a word of advise Peter, when you are seeking for resources
that others have to offer, don't bring personal issues into it. this
list serf  runs on the basis that we are willing to share what we know
to help each other. So cool off and grow up.
Sincerely,
Mary F

On 6/27/10, Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson <birkir.gunnarsson at gmail.com> wrote:
> I also find that Nemeth, or any other math code that uses 6-dot
> braille, is confusing for teachers because there is hardly ever a one
> to one correspondance between the printed math symbol on the screen or
> in the book and the braille representation. In my mind the solution to
> this is to expand Nemeth into 8-dot braille, or create a new 8-dot
> math braille system. I also have never seen a real time translation of
> math to refreshable Nemeth braille. I know with Duxbury you can
> translate a document to a braille file that you can read on display
> (not tried this, so this is my understanding, I am always happy to be
> corrected when necessary).
> I am learning Nemeth now so I certainly do not intend to flame it too
> much, as I hardly know it. But I do know that it is big and
> complicated with up to 6 braille cells required for a symbol, and that
> is just too complicated, in my uneducated opinion.
> 8-dot braille would go a long way, and more software possibilities of
> converting from math ml to braille and refreshable braille. Math ml
> seems to be taking over as the de facto standard in EBooks with math,
> so we are well positioned to go with that direction. LaTeX is good and
> I am working with a high school student on math using LaTeX, and I
> think it is the best way have right now, but I think we should be
> moving towards Math Ml usage.
> Cheers
> -B
>
> On 6/27/10, Christine Szostak <szostak.1 at osu.edu> wrote:
>> This is an excellent list. I have one additional item as someone who has
>> gone from low-vision during undergrad to no vision during late undergrad
>> and
>> grad school.
>>
>> Obtaining, in real-time, information that is being provided on the board
>> for
>> demonstration of the concept being discussed. Although you can get a lot
>> of
>> this directly from the text, at times, professors will provide a note of
>> clarification or correction.
>>
>>   I have found that the ability to visualize can compensate for this
>> limitation.
>> Many thanks,
>> Christine
>>
>> Christine M. Szostak
>> Graduate Student
>> Language Perception Laboratory
>> Department of Psychology, Cognitive Area
>> The Ohio State University
>> Columbus, Ohio
>> szostak.1 at osu.edu
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>; "Blind Math list for those
>> interested in mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 2:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Colllege calculus Questions
>>
>>
>>> The challenge of learning math with no sight versus partial sight are
>>> that
>>> (1) the difficulty in getting advanced textbooks in tactile format, and
>>> (2)
>>> the difficulty in learning in a different format from the instructor --
>>> most
>>> instructors don't know Nemeth notation and don't want to learn, and so
>>> even
>>> if a student has a transcribed textbook, he/she can may have no way of
>>> preparing homework assignments for the instructor.
>>> Tactile graphics are also hard and expensive to prepare.
>>> With recent advancements in computerized math instruction and braille
>>> devices like displays and embossers, the problem is correcting itself
>>> slowly
>>> as people work to unify mathematical representations and better and
>>> cheaper
>>> devices are being developed.
>>> If you know grade2 braille and have that much desire to learn, you will
>>> do
>>> well I'm sure.
>>> Too bad you're not a capitalist; your ambition would take you far in the
>>> business world*snicker*
>>> Yes I am on the faith-talk list, and I stand up for what I believe in
>>> whether it agrees with you or not; but I think we have much that we agree
>>> on
>>> if you wouldn't flame so indiscriminantly.
>>> Good luck in your math studies.
>>> --le
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "qubit" <lauraeaves at yahoo.com>; "Blind Math list for those interested
>>> in
>>> mathematics" <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 27, 2010 1:29 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Colllege calculus Questions
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know nemeth code at all if that is what you mean by braille
>>> proficiency. I know the Grade One and Two fluently. What do you think
>>> are the unique challenges imposed on the sightless as opposed to the
>>> partially sighted? I want to know how visual the concepts as I didn't
>>> graduate high school and got my general education diploma. Actually
>>> the class struggle and division with about 50% in all major urban
>>> areas of drop outs and a third nationally this is fairly common place.
>>> Judge us middle to upper class cause you don't understand us anymore.
>>> There must be two America's from a structuralist prospective and
>>> capitalism has yet again failed us.
>>>     I'm trying to see about the geometry involved in calculus and
>>> linear algebra? Is it more like algebra or more like geometry? How
>>> long are the problems on the page or pages? I am willing to do almost
>>> anything to learn the material. Moreover, what do you think that blind
>>> programmers must reproduce at work from what they learned in calculus
>>> and linear algebra? This in my opinion is what should guide the
>>> discussion about calculus and advanced mathematics cause if not just
>>> make up a temporary system till you finish with passing grades and go
>>> about it. Lots of my college classes that I've had and surely I will
>>> have in this process of engineering revolve around eliminating
>>> candidates to inflate ranking rarity of degree and that is it. The
>>> whole notion that any of this even according to a NASA software
>>> engineer attest to this online. You aren't that guy from the Faith
>>> list are you? The little bugger that doesn't want to stand for morals?
>>>
>>> sincerely,
>>> Peter, AS
>>>
>>> On 6/26/10, qubit <lauraeaves at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>> No one is going to fault you with being proactive in getting the things
>>>> you
>>>> need for your classes.
>>>> Are you a proficient braille reader?  would you be interested in
>>>> learning
>>>> latex to produce the math that your instructor requires for homework?
>>>> There are many solutions but nothing universal has yet been produced as
>>>> a
>>>> standard for blind access to technical books. However there are people
>>>> on
>>>> this list who I'm sure will give you many avenues to look into.
>>>> I majored in math and computer science when I still had some vision and
>>>> could read magnified print.  It is a whole different world if you have
>>>> to
>>>> do
>>>> it only in speech and braaille.
>>>> I tutored all the way through college. It has been a while, but if you
>>>> run
>>>> into any calculus or linear algebra problems that you can't solve, feel
>>>> free
>>>> to email me privately and I'll see if I can help.
>>>> Happy reading.
>>>> --le
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Peter Wolfe" <sunspot005 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 3:19 PM
>>>> Subject: [Blindmath] Colllege calculus Questions
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter Q. Wolfe, AS
>>>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>>> To Blind NFB Math e-mail list members and others:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     My name is Peter, who is a sophomore at a major four year
>>>> university in the south eastern portion of the U.S.A. My major is
>>>> going to be computer science with no minor picked or needed at this
>>>> point in the game right now. I've only taken precalculus at my former
>>>> college and forgot all of it now. I've ordered nemeth code, algebra,
>>>> trig and a calculus book from NLS but with no luck after threee weeks
>>>> for nemeth code and my pen commandments book. I've heard from a
>>>> professor in Massachusetts and from a government institution that RFB
>>>> and D can help me out with math and science in audio. I've not been
>>>> blind for most of my life, so I want your take on my situation on what
>>>> is the most affective way to learn calculus I, II, and III with linear
>>>> algebra in a college level being blind? I don't read print and use
>>>> Window-Eyes version 7.2. I have a talking scientific calculator and
>>>> have about two more months till the fall semester and might have a
>>>> tutor for the fall if I need one. Thanks for any help you can suggest
>>>> or whatever.
>>>> note: any arrogant NFB people don't comment cause I won't listen to
>>>> anymore rude and arrogant NFB members claiming that others are either
>>>> lazy, inferior or whatever your egomanics think of yourselves cause at
>>>> one point we have had all help at one juncture in our lives in this
>>>> respect.
>>>>
>>>> gracias,
>>>> Peter Q. Wolfe, AS
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Peter Q. Wolfe, AS
>>> sunspot005 at gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
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-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory University 2012
P.O. Box 123056
Atlanta Ga.
30322
Phone: 732-857-7004
"Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the
most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of
teachers."
Charles W. Eliot