[Blindmath] Question for Blind Mathematicians
Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Mon Mar 8 16:31:03 UTC 2010
Good call Tony.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Lachenbruch, Peter
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 5:21 PM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question for Blind Mathematicians
Nobody has mentioned the elephant in the room: This seems to be an ADA issue. (now I'll duck)
Tony
Peter A. Lachenbruch
Department of Public Health
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97330
Phone: 541-737-3832
FAX: 541-737-4001
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 8:16 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question for Blind Mathematicians
Transcribers don't "hold your hand". They perform a function.
Sounds like the professor wishes Jose would just go away, and is allowing that bias to inject the teaching process.
Jose, push back, the same as you would if this was not a blindness issue. Treat this the same as you would had the professor made a comment about any other protected class, and do not allow yourself to be bullied as this is what is going on.
-----Original Message-----
From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of cnsbaker at access.k12.wv.us
Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 8:51 AM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question for Blind Mathematicians
Ryan,
I agree with you that every effort should be taken to supply work in a format a professor can grade, and I never meant to sound that a person shouldn't do just that. But when faced with people telling someone to change their major because its difficult and knowing the fact that there are laws to protect that from happening is an option. Stating this and letting people know you are trying and already going above and beyond may be just what you need to get people supporting you rather then hindering you.
Connie
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Thomas <rlt56 at nau.edu>
Date: Friday, March 5, 2010 0:22 am
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Question for Blind Mathematicians
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> I would say that your method is fine. I produced many wikistick
> graphs throughout my math courses. I would have to say I disagree
> with some of the other statements made though. A disability resources
> type office should and can help you with books and other matterials
> and often it is too much for one student to handle on top of a full
> course load. I would, however, say that it is most definitely your
> responsibility as a student to make homework available in a readable
> format. If homework is done in braille it ought to be retyped for
> your professor. There aren't transcribers out there to hold your hand
> and do such tasks for you when you leave college and it will take
> longer, but it's what's right, responsible and independant.
>
> -Ryan
>
> On 3/4/10, Connie Baker <cnsbaker at access.k12.wv.us> wrote:
> > I am sorry to hear that this kind of thinking is still going on in
> this day
> > and age. What a dis-service to the VI community.
> > Here is a response that I saved from a couple years ago. I know
> getting the
> > material in your type of media can be slow but getting to back to professors
> > is also another issue as well as you are already concerned about.
> It is not
> > your responsibility to produce materials for the professor in a print
> > format, it is the institutions responsibility to provide a translator.
> >
> > Quote:
> >
> > blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org; on behalf of; Susan Jolly
> > [easjolly at ix.netcom.com]
> >
> > I'm very impressed with the ingenuity being used by list members.
> >
> > I know that this is an international list but still feel the need
> to repeat
> > for US students that it is illegal for your institution of higher learning
> > to force you to make these accommodations on your own.
> >
> > To quote an expert in the US law in this area: "A student does not
> have to
> > produce responses in a form the professor can read so long as the
> means the
> > student uses is considered standard and can be rendered into standard
> > written form by any person trained to use that method." In other
> words, it
> > is perfectly legal to make a graph by sticking WikiStix on a
> tactile graph
> > with braille labels and leave it to the college to get it
> interpreted by a
> > trained person. (If you choose to be that trained person, they
> should at
> > least pay you as much as they pay other student help.)
> >
> > I do understand that braille-using students want to be independent.
> > However, the main goal of college courses is to learn the subject matter.
> > If you are spending anything more that a small fraction of your valuable
> > time doing things that don't contribute to learning the course material,
> > something is wrong. This is especially important in a mathematics
> course as
> > there is a shortage of people who understand mathematics. Moreover,
> you may
> > well be making it harder for the next student.
> >
> > SusanJ
> > End Quote
> >
> > I like the point she makes "the main goal of college courses is to
> learn the
> > subject matter."
> >
> > Keep following your dreams no matter what others say you should or
> should
> > not do, even if it involves higher mathematics and it is trying and
> > difficult for everyone.
> >
> > Connie Baker
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf Of Jose Tamayo
> > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 10:39 AM
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
> > Subject: [Blindmath] Question for Blind Mathematicians
> >
> > Hello Folks,
> >
> >
> >
> > I am writing this e-mail to ask for assistance, perhaps offlist,
> in the
> > best way to address this issue I am working through with an
> instructor at my
> > University. I thought the problems I would have would be limited to
> > presentation and preparation of content but I have learned quite the
> > contrary. I have an instructor that has some question regarding
> > accommodations for me and all have agreed except her.
> Understandably, she
> > has some questions / concerns but what worries me is her statement
> about
> > suggesting other career paths for individuals with visual
> impairments. I am
> > pasting her response to some of our e-mails on accommodations and I
> would
> > like some direction as this issue directly applies to the success
> of blind
> > mathematicians in my area.
> >
> >
> >
> > Important note: The professor has questioned some very basic accommodation
> > requests and also has taken the request out of context by asking if
> I will
> > require all content available to me. Obviously, we are not asking
> for all
> > that she is concerned about but that we cannot control.
> >
> >
> >
> > Professor's e-mail content follows:
> >
> > Please excuse my delay in answering your e-mail from Tuesday,
> February 23,
> > regarding Jose Tamayo's request for Test 1. I was hoping to
> discuss some
> > of the issues with him yesterday but since that did not happen, I
> am writing
> > the following response:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > It is my understanding that the materials and necessary tools for
> Jose to
> > take this course are being currently developed. I have been
> willing to
> > extend the dates for administering tests, and have agreed to give an
> > incomplete grade if Jose takes two tests (Chapter 7 and Chapter 8)
> before
> > the end of the term. However, I am now concerned as to what will
> be
> > necessary and permissible to provide to Jose in a math exam. I believe
> > Jose's request raises questions that need to be addressed
> responsibly, not
> > lightly.
> >
> >
> >
> > If for test #1 the very basic right triangles 30º-60º-90º and 45º-45º-90º
> > need to be given, then what would be expected when he has to draw different
> > triangles and place them in the correct quadrants to answer other general
> > questions in test #2? In this course, there are many identities that
> > students must memorize. Because formula sheets are not allowed on
> tests,
> > most students usually write them down on the test papers as soon as
> they get
> > them so that they can refer to the formulas as they need them (they
> also do
> > this for the basic triangles). Is it going to be expected for Jose
> to have
> > these formulas? What would be expected for drawing triangles to represent
> > the application problems, how about polar graphs in test #3, etc.?
> >
> >
> >
> > As I sat in the very informative presentation of Professor McDermott-Wells,
> > Math in the Dark, on February 5, I wondered if I would have been
> one of
> > those who would urge visually impaired students "to avoid career
> goals that
> > involve any significant amount of Mathematics or technical content".
> > However, I have never been in the position of advising VI students
> and in
> > fact, Jose is the only VI student I have had in my over 30 years of
> teaching
> > mathematics, the last 10 years at FIU.
> >
> >
> >
> > A visually impaired student definitely requires a very individualized
> > treatment, particularly in mathematics courses. If Jose is going to
> > complete this course and continue with other mathematics courses at
> FIU,
> > shouldn't the Department of Mathematics and Statistics be asked for
> some
> > input as to what allowances can be provided?
> >
> >
> >
> > A grade on a student's transcript assumes certain uniformity in the
> > evaluation of a student's work. My concern is that for Jose not
> only the
> > course has to be presented differently but also evaluated
> differently. I
> > will be discussing this matter with my chairperson, Dr. Bao Qin Li,
> next
> > week.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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