[Blindmath] Integrated Math Curriculum Accessible
Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)
REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com
Wed Jan 30 17:20:47 UTC 2013
Nothing wrong with using a human reader. Tell the school to stuff it. Better yet, if he needs a human reader, then put that in his IEP.
You may want to have him learn Braille, though if he doesn't have the sensitivity in his hands, that won't work. Still, it's worth a try.
He can also take math in summer school. I don't mean take the summer school the "bad" kids take but the optional one that kids use to get ahead in coursework. He'll be with teachers and students who want to be there, v. those that *have* to be there, and he'll have each day every day spent on the math of choice.
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Woodyard
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 2:09 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindmath] Integrated Math Curriculum Accessible
Sorry for the confusion - I really do have several questions. To begin with, my son is taking an Integrated Math Curriculum so he will do Statistics for 2-3 weeks, then switch to Geometry, then to Algebra, and then Graphing and keep rotating them. Visually, he does fairly well with large print for the Algebra and Statistics. His main accessibility problem with these types of problems is differentiating between characters - like "3" and "B" and "8". Or "7" and "Z" and "2". With the algebra in particular, it is hard for him to read the difference in the letters and numbers so he needs some of it read back.
The Geometry - particularly the Angle Segments and Arcs and when Triangles inscribe into Circles is where he really struggled this year. His vision teacher did come in and introduce tactile graphics toward the end of the unit - and hopefully that will help him with Math 3 this next year. He is stuck completing high school with an integrated Math Curriculum. He needed quite a bit of information read back to him during the Geometry Unit and also needs information read back for the Graphing Unit they are doing now.
Although he has classwork and testing accommodation for both human and screen readers, the fact that he is using a human reader has raised alarm with someone within the school and they are not pleased he is using a human reader. That is why I was wondering how complicated it would be to try and convert the PDFs that they teach from and his classwork is in to be read by a screen reader. His school writes their own curriculum from PDFs - they do not use a book.
The screen reader that he has installed on his notebook is Zoom Text, although he is not using it much right now. He uses an electronic text program called Kurzweil which is supposed to have added Math accessibility with its last release. However, Kurzweil does not read the Geometry or symbols with much accuracy. If I need him to move to JAWS, to make the Math Type work, will it read the type of problems that I have attached here? I think Kiran has told me it will not.
So I guess I am asking several questions, Will Math Type work with Zoom Text, as well as JAWS? Will Math Type read back Algebra like in your example? Will Math Type read back Geometry like illustrated above? Thanks for your help!
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 1:01 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 8
Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: How to have a screen reader read back geometry and
graphs? (Bente J. Casile)
2. Re: How to have a screen reader read back geometry and
graphs? (Kiran)
3. Re: How to have a screen reader read back geometry and
graphs? (Neil Soiffer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:40:20 +0000
From: "Bente J. Casile" <bjcasile at waketech.edu>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back
geometry and graphs?
Message-ID:
<EE04707A541692419FC4BB4CAD6EC1AAEF737B at MBX-05.waketech.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mary,
Math Type or Scientific Notebook would work for you. If you use Math Type it will read with JAWS and if you are putting his work in Braille Scientific Notebook works well. You are correct that screen readers do not read graphics and the reason Math Type and Scientific Notebook are used is so the math is read correctly. For example 3x+2 is very different from 3(x+2).
These programs make sure the math is read and put into braille correctly.
Worksheets are tough. If there is any way the school could get Math Type then the teacher could use them to create the work and it would be accessible for your 10th grader. As far as reading graphs goes, if your son is not provided a tactile graphic then he would require an alternative text description of the graphic. There is also something called sensational blackboard. It allows the teacher to draw a quick graph on the spot for your son. It can be used with paper and pencil. If you google it I think you will find that it is $29.95 so not bad considering what VI products go for these days. I hope this helps.
Bente J. Casile
Math Learning Specialist
Wake Tech Community College
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Mary Woodyard
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:35 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back geometry and graphs?
I am the parent of a Visually impaired 10th grader and I am curious as to how I could enable a screen reader to read the typed of information in this Math Worksheet that my son used in class.
I have been reading this website all summer and from what I understand - screen readers in general don't read graphics so just using a screen reader like Zoom Text or JAWS would not work here.
I think I would need to use LaTex or MathType to convert these graphics into a format that the screen reader could then read. Is this correct? Then would I need to use Infinity Reader or could Zoom Text or JAWS read it?
I am asking these questions because some teachers in my son's school are questioning why he needs a human reader to clarify some of the Math problems for him. He has ROP, Glaucoma and is aphakik - he has partial vision in one eye only - but can use Large Print quite well for a lot of things. Algebra and Geometry he needs someone reading some things back to him so he does not confuse the letters and symbols.
What is the best way to accomplish having a screen reader read back the geometry and graphs to him instead of a human reader?
-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:01 PM
To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
blindmath at nfbnet.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Pranav Lal)
2. Re: Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Kiran)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:09:25 +0530
From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
Message-ID: <005901cdf25c$9433ace0$bc9b06a0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi all,
Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
Note:
If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
Pranav
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:20:00 +0530
From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
Message-ID:
<5D497E56-6C30-4888-8E38-CBCE249EA903 at persiontechnologies.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi pranav,
I guess there is not any direct way to do so, but there certainly is a workaround, we can not import an accessible svg file in to a word processor that may help us in converting it to daisy but we may put a link to the svg file and launch the svg file in a browser that shall be then accessed via description.
Shall have a word with you on a call shortly.
Kiran S Deshpande
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On 14-Jan-2013, at 7:09 PM, "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible
> SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>
> Note:
> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
>
> Pranav
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kiran%40persion
> technologies.com
------------------------------
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------------------------------
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****************************************
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2013 01:42:56 +0530
From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back
geometry and graphs?
Message-ID:
<E97441F5-40D4-494A-AE91-5E77C4A980D6 at persiontechnologies.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hey,
Mary has attached a PDF file along with the mail. It is impossible to comprehend those images. The attachment shows various geometries that are a print and one has to find angles in different geometries etc, hence alt text won't work in this context.
Also she has asked for two different questions, but the subject line makes it little confusing. She has sought answers for geometries and algebra she has referred latex usage here. Sensational keyboard may not be useful in comprehending the shape of geometries asked in an examination like she has attached for our reference but as suggested shall surely help in understanding shapes.
Regards,
Kiran S Deshpande
Director Innovatin & Research
Innovation Unit,
Persion technologies pvt ltd.
Pune
DISCLAIMER:-
This e-mail message (including any attachment) is intended only for the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message.
Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the author only. Furthermore, this message (including any attachment) does not create any legally binding rights or obligations whatsoever, which may only be created by the exchange of hard copy documents signed by a duly authorized representative of the company If Official or other wise signed by the Author on Valid Documents.
On 15-Jan-2013, at 1:10 AM, "Bente J. Casile" <bjcasile at waketech.edu> wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Math Type or Scientific Notebook would work for you. If you use Math
> Type it will read with JAWS and if you are putting his work in Braille
> Scientific Notebook works well. You are correct that screen readers
> do not read graphics and the reason Math Type and Scientific Notebook
> are used is so the math is read correctly. For example 3x+2 is very
> different from 3(x+2). These programs make sure the math is read and
> put into braille correctly. Worksheets are tough. If there is any
> way the school could get Math Type then the teacher could use them to
> create the work and it would be accessible for your 10th grader. As
> far as reading graphs goes, if your son is not provided a tactile
> graphic then he would require an alternative text description of the
> graphic. There is also something called sensational blackboard. It
> allows the teacher to draw a quick graph on the spot for your son. It
> can be used with paper and pencil. If you google it I think you will
> find that it is $2
> 9.95 so not bad considering what VI products go for these days. I hope
this helps.
>
> Bente J. Casile
> Math Learning Specialist
> Wake Tech Community College
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Mary Woodyard
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:35 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back geometry
> and
graphs?
>
>
> I am the parent of a Visually impaired 10th grader and I am curious as
> to
how I could enable a screen reader to read the typed of information in this Math Worksheet that my son used in class.
>
> I have been reading this website all summer and from what I understand
> -
screen readers in general don't read graphics so just using a screen reader like Zoom Text or JAWS would not work here.
>
> I think I would need to use LaTex or MathType to convert these
> graphics
into a format that the screen reader could then read. Is this correct?
Then would I need to use Infinity Reader or could Zoom Text or JAWS read it?
>
> I am asking these questions because some teachers in my son's school
> are
questioning why he needs a human reader to clarify some of the Math problems for him. He has ROP, Glaucoma and is aphakik - he has partial vision in one eye only - but can use Large Print quite well for a lot of things. Algebra and Geometry he needs someone reading some things back to him so he does not confuse the letters and symbols.
>
> What is the best way to accomplish having a screen reader read back
> the
geometry and graphs to him instead of a human reader?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
>
> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
> blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than
> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Pranav Lal)
> 2. Re: Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Kiran)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:09:25 +0530
> From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
> Message-ID: <005901cdf25c$9433ace0$bc9b06a0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all,
>
> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible
> SVG
with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>
> Note:
> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
>
> Pranav
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:20:00 +0530
> From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
> Message-ID:
> <5D497E56-6C30-4888-8E38-CBCE249EA903 at persiontechnologies.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi pranav,
>
> I guess there is not any direct way to do so, but there certainly is a
workaround, we can not import an accessible svg file in to a word processor that may help us in converting it to daisy but we may put a link to the svg file and launch the svg file in a browser that shall be then accessed via description.
>
> Shall have a word with you on a call shortly.
>
>
>
> Kiran S Deshpande
>
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:-
>
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachment) is intended only for
> the
personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message.
>
> Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the
> author
only. Furthermore, this message (including any attachment) does not create any legally binding rights or obligations whatsoever, which may only be created by the exchange of hard copy documents signed by a duly authorized representative of the company If Official or other wise signed by the Author on Valid Documents.
>
> On 14-Jan-2013, at 7:09 PM, "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible
>> SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>>
>> Note:
>> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me
know.
>>
>> Pranav
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kiran%40persio
>> n
>> technologies.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
> ****************************************
> Email correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the
> North
Carolina Public Records law and may be disclosed to third parties by an authorized state official (NCGS. ch. 132). Student educational records are subject to FERPA.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kiran%40persion
> technologies.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:10:21 -0800
From: Neil Soiffer <NeilS at dessci.com>
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back
geometry and graphs?
Message-ID:
<CAESRWkB81jp=JNqm84nAKAaSbTokNKr_DHZEFYG2FFpNmC6Zaw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Just a small clarification: you can use MathType+Word and export that to a web page. Then JAWS+IE+MathPlayer will read that. However, at the moment, you need to export the word doc to a web page. That will change this year.
Stay tuned...
Neil Soiffer
Senior Scientist
Design Science, Inc.
www.dessci.com
~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 11:40 AM, Bente J. Casile
<bjcasile at waketech.edu>wrote:
> Mary,
>
> Math Type or Scientific Notebook would work for you. If you use Math
> Type it will read with JAWS and if you are putting his work in Braille
> Scientific Notebook works well. You are correct that screen readers
> do not read graphics and the reason Math Type and Scientific Notebook
> are used is so the math is read correctly. For example 3x+2 is very
> different from 3(x+2). These programs make sure the math is read and
> put into braille correctly. Worksheets are tough. If there is any
> way the school could get Math Type then the teacher could use them to
> create the work and it would be accessible for your 10th grader. As
> far as reading graphs goes, if your son is not provided a tactile
> graphic then he would require an alternative text description of the
> graphic. There is also something called sensational blackboard. It
> allows the teacher to draw a quick graph on the spot for your son. It
> can be used with paper and pencil. If you google it I think you will
> find that it is $29.95 so not bad considering what VI products go for
these days. I hope this helps.
>
> Bente J. Casile
> Math Learning Specialist
> Wake Tech Community College
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Mary Woodyard
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:35 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [Blindmath] How to have a screen reader read back geometry
> and graphs?
>
>
> I am the parent of a Visually impaired 10th grader and I am curious as
> to how I could enable a screen reader to read the typed of information
> in this Math Worksheet that my son used in class.
>
> I have been reading this website all summer and from what I understand
> - screen readers in general don't read graphics so just using a screen
> reader like Zoom Text or JAWS would not work here.
>
> I think I would need to use LaTex or MathType to convert these
> graphics into a format that the screen reader could then read. Is
> this
correct?
> Then would I need to use Infinity Reader or could Zoom Text or JAWS
> read it?
>
> I am asking these questions because some teachers in my son's school
> are questioning why he needs a human reader to clarify some of the
> Math problems for him. He has ROP, Glaucoma and is aphakik - he has
> partial vision in one eye only - but can use Large Print quite well
> for a lot of things. Algebra and Geometry he needs someone reading
> some things back to him so he does not confuse the letters and symbols.
>
> What is the best way to accomplish having a screen reader read back
> the geometry and graphs to him instead of a human reader?
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:01 PM
> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 6
>
> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
> blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than
> "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Pranav Lal)
> 2. Re: Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML (Kiran)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 19:09:25 +0530
> From: "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com>
> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
> Message-ID: <005901cdf25c$9433ace0$bc9b06a0$@gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi all,
>
> Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible
> SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
>
> Note:
> If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me know.
>
> Pranav
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 20:20:00 +0530
> From: Kiran <Kiran at persiontechnologies.com>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Integrating SVG with DAISY and MathML
> Message-ID:
> <5D497E56-6C30-4888-8E38-CBCE249EA903 at persiontechnologies.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi pranav,
>
> I guess there is not any direct way to do so, but there certainly is a
> workaround, we can not import an accessible svg file in to a word
> processor that may help us in converting it to daisy but we may put a
> link to the svg file and launch the svg file in a browser that shall
> be then accessed via description.
>
> Shall have a word with you on a call shortly.
>
>
>
> Kiran S Deshpande
>
>
>
>
> DISCLAIMER:-
>
>
> This e-mail message (including any attachment) is intended only for
> the personal use of the recipient(s) named above. This message is
> confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not an
> intended recipient, you may not review, copy or distribute this
> message. If you have received this communication in error, please
> notify us immediately by e-mail and delete the original message.
>
> Any views or opinions expressed in this message are those of the
> author only. Furthermore, this message (including any attachment) does
> not create any legally binding rights or obligations whatsoever, which
> may only be created by the exchange of hard copy documents signed by a
> duly authorized representative of the company If Official or other
> wise signed by the Author on Valid Documents.
>
> On 14-Jan-2013, at 7:09 PM, "Pranav Lal" <pranav.lal at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Is there a tool or technique that allows me to integrate accessible
> > SVG with a DAISY book that consists of MathML and regular DAISY text?
> >
> > Note:
> > If there is a better list for me asking this question, please let me
> know.
> >
> > Pranav
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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Subject: Digest Footer
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End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 78, Issue 8
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