[Blindmath] [Blind math] Spatial Abilities

Thu Jun 5 18:39:00 UTC 2014

I find your comment very interesting ... that some blind people (and perhaps some not) can pack a pack a paper bag without having vision.  I ought to show this email to my daughter in-law to see what she has to say ... who once told me when I told her I was interested in developing a computer pgoram that would allow blind people to interactively work with math equations in Braille ... 
"how could a blind person do math when they can't see?".    I don't need to say that when she made that comment, I got just slightly irritated.  I've seen this bias many times in my lifetime.  They need to be shown that we just have difficult seeing ... we're not stupid.

> To: arielle71 at gmail.com; blindmath at nfbnet.org
> Date: Fri, 30 May 2014 08:03:29 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] [Blind math] Spatial Abilities
> From: blindmath at nfbnet.org
> 
> I am not sure this is a blind thing.  When I was sighted back in the day we
> used paper bags at the grocery.  I used to train baggers.  I would say it
> was almost a 50 50 shot that the people I trained could look at what was on
> the counter and be able to quickly and easily pack groceries in the least
> amount of bags, taking into account shape, and type of groceries.  TI have
> found over the years that the same people that couldn't pack a paper bag
> correctly also couldn't look at a pile of luggage and figure out how to fit
> it in the trunk without trying 15 times.  Now that I am blind and have been
> for the last 20 years I haven't found it any harder.  I do have my previous
> sighted experience and training but I have met as many blind people that
> understand special areas as well as me.  As I have met that are totally
> unable to walk through a building that they have worked in for over 2
> years.  So in my experience and just in my humble opinion I think it has
> more to do with how your experiences growing up allowed you to learn and
> maybe how your brain is genetically wired than anything to do with site. 
> 
> It would be interesting to do a study with the old square paper bags and a
> table full of stuff.  To see how different blind people could look over a
> table of objects and be able to pack them verses a  group of sighted folks.
> 
> 
> Ken 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle
> Silverman via Blindmath
> Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 7:48 PM
> To: sabra1023; Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] Spatial Abilities
> 
> This is a really interesting question. I have been blind since birth
> and have always had excellent verbal and quantitative skills, and
> reasonable grasp of cardinal directions, but my spatial sense is very
> poor. For example, when moving furniture or packing a moving truck, I
> have no idea how things should be arranged. I feel I am at a
> disadvantage because I can only touch or explore a large space a
> little at a time, whereas a sighted person can see the whole thing at
> once. This is a bit of a different problem from the 2 vs.
> 3-dimensional issue (although I also have trouble decoding raised
> diagrams especially those with complex shapes). I can mental-map a
> space easily if it's a standard square or rectangular block, but have
> a lot of trouble mental-mapping a room or building that's irregularly
> shaped in any way. I have met several blind people who don't have the
> same degree of difficulty as I do, however, so I am hesitant to blame
> it wholly on blindness. That's why I am curious to hear what other
> congenitally blind people experience. I do think growing up I was
> never expected to engage spatially with the world and I wasn't as
> tactually inquisitive as some blind kids, so my spatial development
> might have been hampered. For me there's little connection between
> mathematical relationships between numbers and their graphical
> analogs, which is why my math ability doesn't suffer from my spatial
> impairment.
> 
> Arielle
> 
> On 5/28/14, sabra1023 via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Just because someone uses three-dimensional objects doesn't mean that
> they
> > have a low spatial intelligence necessarily. I believe that for spatial
> IQ
> > tests for the blind, it is best practice to use three-dimensional
> objects.
> >
> >> On May 28, 2014, at 1:13 PM, Amanda Lacy <lacy925 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I think it has to do with the fact that those of us who are blind from
> >> birth don't experience the world as being flat. Sight involves the
> >> projection of light onto a flat retina, so for sighted people it seems
> >> natural to go from there to representing real things on flat surfaces.
> >> Flat pictures are everywhere for them since birth, but I can't think of
> >> one single example of anything in the real world that's flat. Our hands
> >> are designed to grasp and rotate and examine real objects, and then we
> >> come to school and have to learn what seems like a new language. So when
> >> people say that my hands are like their eyes, I have to disagree. I'm
> >> speculating as someone who has never been sighted, so any of you can
> feel
> >> free to correct me with more accurate information.
> >>
> >> Amanda
> >>> On 5/28/2014 12:46 PM, sabra1023 via Blindmath wrote:
> >>> I wonder if being blind from birth has to do with it. If I'm
> remembering
> >>> how to get somewhere, I just imagine myself walking there. A map
> doesn't
> >>> help. I can imagine three-dimensional things very well and make them
> out
> >>> of clay. Also, I can remember a two dimensional shape like a circle or
> >>> square. However, it's difficult for me to imagine and manipulate graphs
> >>> in my head.
> >>>
> >>>> On May 28, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Susan Jolly via Blindmath
> >>>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> There have been a large number of conferences about and studies of the
> >>>> use of tactile maps and diagrams by blind persons.  This has been
> going
> >>>> on for more than 40 years.  What I got out of reading many of the
> >>>> studies is that different people are different.
> >>>>
> >>>> There is, however, a lot of evidence that men have better spatial
> >>>> abilities than women.  I know this is controversial but I think there
> is
> >>>> some truth to it.  I can see the sun come up east of my house and go
> >>>> down west of my house.  Nonetheless, no matter how hard I try, I
> cannot
> >>>> imagine that my son who lives 1000 miles west of me lives in the
> >>>> direction where the sun goes down.  I know that it is true logically
> but
> >>>> when I think about him, he's always somewhere off to the east in my
> >>>> mind.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for graphs, it took me years to understand why it is not necessary
> >>>> when laying out a two-dimensional graph to use the same spacing for
> both
> >>>> axes.  I mention this here for two reasons.  First, it is an example
> of
> >>>> different people being different.  Second, it points out that the
> shape
> >>>> of a graph is to some extent arbitrary.  Of course, the general shape
> is
> >>>> independent of the exact choice of layout. (I'm talking about linear
> >>>> axes; you can dramatically change the shape if you use non-linear axes
> >>>> such as logarithmic ones.)
> >>>>
> >>>> SusanJ
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> Blindmath:
> >>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/sabra1023%40gmail.co
> m
> >>>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Blindmath mailing list
> >>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> Blindmath:
> >>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/lacy925%40gmail.com
> >>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> >>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Blindmath mailing list
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > Blindmath:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.co
> m
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/kperry%40blinksoft.c
> om
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Blindmath:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mrspock56%40hotmail.com
> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>