[Blindmath] {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} Re: Blindmath Digest, Vol 127, Issue 22

Louis Maher ljmaher at swbell.net
Wed Mar 1 19:45:09 UTC 2017 

Tolga,

JAWS is a general purpose screen reader.  It may not have any LaTeX specific
functions in it, but you can process LaTex with JAWS.  For instance, if you
had an MS word document, you could put equations in the document with
MathPlayer and JAWS.  You could make LaTeX files with editors such as
notepad.  

Just continue doing what you had planned to do with JAWS and LaTex.

Remember the e-mail that appeared a few days ago:
(
"From: John Heim <john at johnheim.com>
Subject: Re: [nfbcs] Latex and MathType

Where is a LaTeX tutorial?There is a clear answer to this question. 
Wikibooks.  
Google ""wikibook latex"" and you'll find it.


https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/LaTeX"
)

Regards
Louis Maher
Phone: 713-444-7838
E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net

-----Original Message-----
From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of tolga
karatas via Blindmath
Sent: Wednesday, March 1, 2017 12:47 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
<blindmath at nfbnet.org>; neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: Blindmath Digest, Vol 127, Issue 22

hello neil,

Many thanks for your email from earlier.

I have already spoken to FS, and both Tracey Jackson and Bryan Carver
from technical support said no in relation to lATEX working with Jaws,

They advised me to contact Sight And Sound, to see if a scripting
assessment can be done, however, I have contacted sight and sound
technology, they have said no,

What is my next step please?

Regards,

Tolga.

On 28/02/2017, blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
<blindmath-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send Blindmath mailing list submissions to
> 	blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> 	http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> 	blindmath-request at nfbnet.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	blindmath-owner at nfbnet.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Blindmath digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws screen
>       reader,  (Louis Maher)
>    2. Re: math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>       (Doug and Molly Miron)
>    3. {Spam?} Re:  {Spam?}  math type accessibility with jaws
>       screen reader, (Rebecca Maria Carvalho)
>    4. {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen
>       reader,  (Neil Soiffer)
>    5. Re:  {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>       (Rebecca Maria Carvalho)
>    6. {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen
>       reader,  (Neil Soiffer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 09:16:32 -0600
> From: "Louis Maher" <ljmaher at swbell.net>
> To: "'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'"
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Neil Soiffer'" <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
> 	screen reader,
> Message-ID: <000401d2910c$7bc07050$734150f0$@swbell.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"
>
> Neil,
>
> I do not know if it helps, but JAWS 18 can show MathML on the web as
Nemeth
> code on Braille displays.
>
>
> Regards
> Louis Maher
> Phone: 713-444-7838
> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Neil
> Soiffer via Blindmath
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 11:02 PM
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>; Louis Maher <ljmaher at swbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
> screen reader,
>
> A few notes and clarifications about MathType:
>
> 1.  LaTeX is not the underlying language for MathType -- LaTeX along with
> MathML and a few other formats are alternative representations that
> MathType
> supports for import and export.
>
> 2. The translator from MathType to LaTeX is somewhat simple and puts in
far
> more braces than are needed. It's easier to generate that way and legal
> LaTeX. It does unfortunately make it harder to read and listen to.
>
> 3.  If you type LaTeX and convert it to MathType, MathType will remember
> the
> original LaTeX and preserve it unless you edit the equation in MathType.
So
> if you start with LaTeX without many braces, convert it to MathType and
> convert it back to LaTeX, it will look exactly the way you typed it.
>
> 4.  If you can't see normal math notation, a VERY big advantage of using
> Word+MathType+NVDA+MathPlayer when entering LaTeX is that once you
> Word+MathType+NVDA+convert
> the LaTeX to normal math notation, it can be read by NVDA+MathPlayer and
> displayed in Nemeth on a refreshible braille display. That's important
> because you have no way of knowing if you made a mistake in typing the
> LaTeX
> without getting that feedback. Making occasional mistakes in LaTeX happens
> to everyone, so getting feedback via sight, sound, or touch is really
> important if you want to make sure others understand what you wrote.
>
> 5.  AFAIK, JAWS does not support speaking/brailling math in Word
documents.
> If that has changed in the last year, please let me and others on the list
> know.
>
> I hope that clarifies a few things,
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Louis Maher via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Doug,
>>
>> I borrow the document I sent the list from another person.  I did not
>> write it, and I can't answer questions on its syntax.  I am just
>> starting to learn Latex and MathType.
>>
>> I do not know if it matters, but I am a JAWS user.
>>
>> I was able to turn the equation image into Latex and back to an image
>> by using alt+\.  When I was looking at the Latex version of the
>> equation, I moved the cursor onto the first $ and hit alt+\, and the
>> equation turned back into an image.  I am using Office 2016, JAWS 18, and
> MathType 6.9.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Louis Maher
>> Phone: 713-444-7838
>> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Doug and Molly Miron via Blindmath
>> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:16 PM
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
>> Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
>> screen reader,
>>
>> Good day Louis,
>>
>> I'm new to TeX and LaTeX and found your message very helpful.  I
>> didn't know that TeX is the underlying language for MathType.  Also,
>> it took me a while to discover that alt+\ is alt+[backslash] because
>> NVDA doesn't read the character unless I single-step through it.
>> After reading your example document, I opened, in current versions of
>> Word, MathType and MathPlayer, a document I'd written several years
>> ago inold versions of Word and MathType.
>> The alt+\ brought out the underlying TeX, but it wouldn't convert
>> back.  In your example and my old document, exponents are heavily
>> braced, even when there is only one character.  Why is this?  In your
>> e-mail integral example it seems you got away with minimal bracing.
>> The letter "n" seems to be used as a filler in multi-line equations.
>> Can yoou recommend a reference for math type-setting in TeX or LaTeX?
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Doug Miron
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>     From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:05 PM
>> To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> Cc: Louis Maher ; 'tolga karatas'
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
>> reader,
>>
>> Hello Tolga,
>>
>> If you are willing to learn LaTex, MathType is accessible for the
>> blind with JAWS.  Here is a message I received from Neil Soiffer (I do
>> not have a current e-mail address for Neil).  Note that while he talks
>> about NVDA, MathTypes works well in JAWS.
>>
>> I do not think you need MathPlayer in JAWS.
>> -----
>> "You can use Word+NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to author and read math if
>> you are willing to learn the math component of LaTeX. If you already
>> have a document with math in it, then the above combination will work
>> for *reading *and navigating the math by speech. If you want to author
>> math, then in Word you can type in some LaTeX between $ $ and use
>> MathType to convert that into MathType math (so it looks nice), which
>> can then be spoken and navigated.
>> Given that it is easy to make a mistake in LaTeX, hearing the math
>> gives you a way to know that you have typed it correctly. If you
>> didn't, then you convert it back into LaTeX and edit it and listen
>> again.
>>
>> FYI: changing between LaTeX and vice-versa is done with ""Toggle TeX""
>> which
>> has the keyboard shortcut alt+\. As the name ""Toggle"" implies, alt+\
>> will also change the MathType equation back to TeX.
>>
>> Here is a concrete example, if you want to write ""the integral from 0
>> to
>> 10
>> of x times e to the negative 2x power, d x"", you would type into Word:
>> $\int_0^{10} x e^{-2 x} dx$ alt+\
>>
>> Press left arrow to move before the math to make NVDA read the math to
> you.
>> If you made a mistake, type alt+\ and move right to edit the LaTeX.
>>
>> FYI: when I initially typed the example, I made a common TeX error of
>> not putting the ""10"" inside of {}s. Be careful to add braces to any
>> subscript or superscript that is more than one character.
>>
>> Neil Soiffer
>> Use insert equations to start entering an equation.
>>
>> -----
>>
>> If you are on the image of an equation, you type alt+backslash and the
>> equation will be converted to LaTex, and you can read and change it.
>>
>> I have attached an example file to try this.
>>
>>
>> I am just beginning to learn this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>> Louis Maher
>> Phone: 713-444-7838
>> E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> tolga karatas via Blindmath
>> Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:45 PM
>> To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>>
>> Dear Sir/madam,
>>
>> I am a visually impaired studying a  degree in BSC Business
>> Information
>> technology:
>>
>> I would like to use Math Type with a screen reader called Jaws, but
>> jaws isn't user friendly with math type due to LaTEX not being user
>> friendly either, how can I over come this challenge please? I really
>> want to use math type with Jaws Screen reader, however, the
>> accessibility is not their.
>>
>> Can someone advise me as to how I can solve this problem/challenge
>> please?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yours Faithfully,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tolga Karatas
>>
>> I am a blind student studying BSC Business Information Technology.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> ljmaher%40swbell.net
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci.c
>> om
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> ljmaher%40swbell.net
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/ljmaher%40swbell.net
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 11:56:40 -0600
> From: "Doug and Molly Miron" <mndmrn at hbci.com>
> To: "Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics"
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
> 	reader,
> Message-ID: <9FD7289AD6734D188CBE48D33D4207BE at DESKTOPBGKNB8Q>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Good day Neil,
>
> Is there another way to convert LaTeX to MathType/MathPlayer?  The
> alt+[backslash] shortcut seems to ignore \begin{equation} and
\begin{align}.
>
> If not, I can live with the $...$ method and add equation numbers myself.
> Can you give me a reference for math typesetting in LaTeX?  I have
> bookmarked the symbol tables  on the web, but I have  other questions and
> there are doubtless questions I'm too ignorant to ask.
>
> Regards,
> Doug Miron
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: 27 Feb 2017 19:58:50 -0000
> From: "Rebecca Maria Carvalho" <rebecca at xrcvc.org>
> To: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>, <ljmaher at swbell.net>
> Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re:  {Spam?}  math type accessibility
> 	with jaws screen reader,
> Message-ID:
>
<1488171812.S.15642.17209.pro-236-182.1488225530.16881 at webmail.rediffmail.co
m>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi,
> Regarding point 4 in your email, you mentioned that MathType's equations
in
> Word can be read in Nemeth on Refreshable Braille displays with NVDA +
Math
> Player.
> Which Refreshable Braille Display can be used for this?And how would one
go
> about it ?
> I have tried reading MathType Equations from Word on the Focus 40
> Refreshable Braille Display, but it did not display Nemeth.
> We have been looking for the solution to this for a while but have not
been
> able to find any Refreshable Braille Display that displays Nemeth Braille
> Code.Please do let us know.
> Rebecca
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>
> From: Neil Soiffer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:33:32 GMT+0530
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?}  math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> A few notes and clarifications about MathType:
>
>
>
> 1.  LaTeX is not the underlying language for MathType -- LaTeX along
> with
>
> MathML and a few other formats are alternative representations that
>
> MathType supports for import and export.
>
>
>
> 2. The translator from MathType to LaTeX is somewhat simple and puts in
far
>
> more braces than are needed. It's easier to generate that way and legal
>
> LaTeX. It does unfortunately make it harder to read and listen to.
>
>
>
> 3.  If you type LaTeX and convert it to MathType, MathType will
> remember
>
> the original LaTeX and preserve it unless you edit the equation in
>
> MathType. So if you start with LaTeX without many braces, convert it to
>
> MathType and convert it back to LaTeX, it will look exactly the way you
>
> typed it.
>
>
>
> 4.  If you can't see normal math notation, a VERY big advantage of
> using
>
> Word+MathType+NVDA+MathPlayer when entering LaTeX is that once you convert
>
> the LaTeX to normal math notation, it can be read by NVDA+MathPlayer and
>
> displayed in Nemeth on a refreshible braille display. That's important
>
> because you have no way of knowing if you made a mistake in typing the
>
> LaTeX without getting that feedback. Making occasional mistakes in LaTeX
>
> happens to everyone, so getting feedback via sight, sound, or touch is
>
> really important if you want to make sure others understand what you
wrote.
>
>
>
> 5.  AFAIK, JAWS does not support speaking/brailling math in Word
> documents.
>
> If that has changed in the last year, please let me and others on the list
>
> know.
>
>
>
> I hope that clarifies a few things,
>
>
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Louis Maher via Blindmath <
>
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Doug,
>
> >
>
> > I borrow the document I sent the list from another person.  I
did
> not write
>
> > it, and I can't answer questions on its syntax.  I am just
> starting to
>
> > learn
>
> > Latex and MathType.
>
> >
>
> > I do not know if it matters, but I am a JAWS user.
>
> >
>
> > I was able to turn the equation image into Latex and back to an image
> by
>
> > using alt+.  When I was looking at the Latex version of the
> equation, I
>
> > moved the cursor onto the first $ and hit alt+, and the equation
> turned
>
> > back into an image.  I am using Office 2016, JAWS 18, and
MathType
> 6.9.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Louis Maher
>
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Doug
>
> > and
>
> > Molly Miron via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:16 PM
>
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>
> > Cc: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
>
> > Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
> screen
>
> > reader,
>
> >
>
> > Good day Louis,
>
> >
>
> > I'm new to TeX and LaTeX and found your message very helpful.  I
> didn't
>
> > know
>
> > that TeX is the underlying language for MathType.  Also, it took
> me a while
>
> > to discover that alt+ is alt+[backslash] because NVDA doesn't read
the
>
> > character unless I single-step through it.  After reading your
> example
>
> > document, I opened, in current versions of Word, MathType and
> MathPlayer, a
>
> > document I'd written several years ago inold versions of Word and
> MathType.
>
> > The alt+ brought out the underlying TeX, but it wouldn't convert
back.
>  In
>
> > your example and my old document, exponents are heavily braced, even
> when
>
> > there is only one character.  Why is this?  In your e-mail
> integral example
>
> > it seems you got away with minimal bracing.  The letter "n"
seems
> to be
>
> > used
>
> > as a filler in multi-line equations.  Can yoou recommend a
> reference for
>
> > math type-setting in TeX or LaTeX?  Thanks.
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Doug Miron
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> >     From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:05 PM
>
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>
> > Cc: Louis Maher ; 'tolga karatas'
>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> >
>
> > Hello Tolga,
>
> >
>
> > If you are willing to learn LaTex, MathType is accessible for the
> blind
>
> > with
>
> > JAWS.  Here is a message I received from Neil Soiffer (I do not
> have a
>
> > current e-mail address for Neil).  Note that while he talks
about
> NVDA,
>
> > MathTypes works well in JAWS.
>
> >
>
> > I do not think you need MathPlayer in JAWS.
>
> > -----
>
> > "You can use Word+NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to author and read math if
> you
>
> > are willing to learn the math component of LaTeX. If you already have
> a
>
> > document with math in it, then the above combination will work for
> *reading
>
> > *and navigating the math by speech. If you want to author math, then
> in
>
> > Word
>
> > you can type in some LaTeX between $ $ and use MathType to convert
> that
>
> > into
>
> > MathType math (so it looks nice), which can then be spoken and
> navigated.
>
> > Given that it is easy to make a mistake in LaTeX, hearing the math
> gives
>
> > you
>
> > a way to know that you have typed it correctly. If you didn't, then
> you
>
> > convert it back into LaTeX and edit it and listen again.
>
> >
>
> > FYI: changing between LaTeX and vice-versa is done with ""Toggle
TeX""
>
> > which
>
> > has the keyboard shortcut alt+. As the name ""Toggle"" implies, alt+
> will
>
> > also change the MathType equation back to TeX.
>
> >
>
> > Here is a concrete example, if you want to write ""the integral from
0
> to
>
> > 10
>
> > of x times e to the negative 2x power, d x"", you would type into
> Word:
>
> > $int_0^{10} x e^{-2 x} dx$ alt+
>
> >
>
> > Press left arrow to move before the math to make NVDA read the math
to
> you.
>
> > If you made a mistake, type alt+ and move right to edit the LaTeX.
>
> >
>
> > FYI: when I initially typed the example, I made a common TeX error of
> not
>
> > putting the ""10"" inside of {}s. Be careful to add braces to any
> subscript
>
> > or superscript that is more than one character.
>
> >
>
> > Neil Soiffer
>
> > Use insert equations to start entering an equation.
>
> >
>
> > -----
>
> >
>
> > If you are on the image of an equation, you type alt+backslash and
the
>
> > equation will be converted to LaTex, and you can read and change it.
>
> >
>
> > I have attached an example file to try this.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am just beginning to learn this.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Louis Maher
>
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> tolga
>
> > karatas via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:45 PM
>
> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
>
> > Subject: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>
> >
>
> > Dear Sir/madam,
>
> >
>
> > I am a visually impaired studying a  degree in BSC Business
> Information
>
> > technology:
>
> >
>
> > I would like to use Math Type with a screen reader called Jaws, but
> jaws
>
> > isn't user friendly with math type due to LaTEX not being user
> friendly
>
> > either, how can I over come this challenge please? I really want to
> use
>
> > math
>
> > type with Jaws Screen reader, however, the accessibility is not
their.
>
> >
>
> > Can someone advise me as to how I can solve this problem/challenge
> please?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yours Faithfully,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tolga Karatas
>
> >
>
> > I am a blind student studying BSC Business Information Technology.
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>
> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci.com
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>
> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>
> > soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>
> > blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Blindmath mailing list
>
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/rebecca%40xrcvc.org
>
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 12:12:03 -0800
> From: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
> To: Rebecca Maria Carvalho <rebecca at xrcvc.org>
> Cc: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>,	Louis Maher <ljmaher at swbell.net>
> Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} math type accessibility with
> 	jaws screen reader,
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAESRWkDobd-yCiXL7xXKsn-yFDu1ihj-OSDX701BAmcPqUebdA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> NVDA asks MathPlayer for the braille and then sends it to the braille
> display. If NVDA supports the Focus 4, then it should work. According to
> their
> documentation,
>
<https://www.nvaccess.org/files/nvda/documentation/userGuide.html#SupportedB
railleDisplays>
> all Focus displays are supported. If you aren't getting braille for text
in
> a Word document, then their is some problem with your NVDA/braille display
> setup.
>
> If you do get braille for regular text and can hear the math speech when
> moving to math, then you should be getting braille for the math. One thing
> to check is to make sure Braille is set to Nemeth -- see the MathPlayer
> manual
>
<https://www.dessci.com/en/products/mathplayer/manual.htm#mathplayer_setting
s_dialog>on
> how to check/set the value (it defaults to Nemeth).
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Rebecca Maria Carvalho
> <rebecca at xrcvc.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Regarding point 4 in your email, you mentioned that MathType's equations
>> in Word can be read in Nemeth on Refreshable Braille displays with NVDA +
>> Math Player.
>>
>> Which Refreshable Braille Display can be used for this?
>> And how would one go about it ?
>>
>> I have tried reading MathType Equations from Word on the Focus 40
>> Refreshable Braille Display, but it did not display Nemeth.
>>
>> We have been looking for the solution to this for a while but have not
>> been able to find any Refreshable Braille Display that displays Nemeth
>> Braille Code.
>> Please do let us know.
>>
>> Rebecca
>>
>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>
>> From: Neil Soiffer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:33:32 GMT+0530
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen
>> reader,
>>
>> A few notes and clarifications about MathType:
>>
>> 1.  LaTeX is not the underlying language for MathType -- LaTeX along with
>> MathML and a few other formats are alternative representations that
>> MathType supports for import and export.
>>
>> 2. The translator from MathType to LaTeX is somewhat simple and puts in
>> far
>> more braces than are needed. It's easier to generate that way and legal
>> LaTeX. It does unfortunately make it harder to read and listen to.
>>
>> 3.  If you type LaTeX and convert it to MathType, MathType will remember
>> the original LaTeX and preserve it unless you edit the equation in
>> MathType. So if you start with LaTeX without many braces, convert it to
>> MathType and convert it back to LaTeX, it will look exactly the way you
>> typed it.
>>
>> 4.  If you can't see normal math notation, a VERY big advantage of using
>> Word+MathType+NVDA+MathPlayer when entering LaTeX is that once you
>> convert
>> the LaTeX to normal math notation, it can be read by NVDA+MathPlayer and
>> displayed in Nemeth on a refreshible braille display. That's important
>> because you have no way of knowing if you made a mistake in typing the
>> LaTeX without getting that feedback. Making occasional mistakes in LaTeX
>> happens to everyone, so getting feedback via sight, sound, or touch is
>> really important if you want to make sure others understand what you
>> wrote.
>>
>> 5.  AFAIK, JAWS does not support speaking/brailling math in Word
>> documents.
>> If that has changed in the last year, please let me and others on the
>> list
>> know.
>>
>> I hope that clarifies a few things,
>>
>> Neil Soiffer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Louis Maher via Blindmath <
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Doug,
>> >
>> > I borrow the document I sent the list from another person.  I did not
>> write
>> > it, and I can't answer questions on its syntax.  I am just starting to
>> > learn
>> > Latex and MathType.
>> >
>> > I do not know if it matters, but I am a JAWS user.
>> >
>> > I was able to turn the equation image into Latex and back to an image
>> > by
>> > using alt+.  When I was looking at the Latex version of the equation, I
>> > moved the cursor onto the first $ and hit alt+, and the equation turned
>> > back into an image.  I am using Office 2016, JAWS 18, and MathType 6.9.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Louis Maher
>> > Phone: 713-444-7838 <%28713%29%20444-7838>
>> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Doug
>> > and
>> > Molly Miron via Blindmath
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:16 PM
>> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> > Cc: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
>> > Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
>> > screen
>> > reader,
>> >
>> > Good day Louis,
>> >
>> > I'm new to TeX and LaTeX and found your message very helpful.  I didn't
>> > know
>> > that TeX is the underlying language for MathType.  Also, it took me a
>> while
>> > to discover that alt+ is alt+[backslash] because NVDA doesn't read the
>> > character unless I single-step through it.  After reading your example
>> > document, I opened, in current versions of Word, MathType and
>> MathPlayer, a
>> > document I'd written several years ago inold versions of Word and
>> MathType.
>> > The alt+ brought out the underlying TeX, but it wouldn't convert back.
>> In
>> > your example and my old document, exponents are heavily braced, even
>> > when
>> > there is only one character.  Why is this?  In your e-mail integral
>> example
>> > it seems you got away with minimal bracing.  The letter "n" seems to be
>> > used
>> > as a filler in multi-line equations.  Can yoou recommend a reference
>> > for
>> > math type-setting in TeX or LaTeX?  Thanks.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > Doug Miron
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> >     From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
>> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:05 PM
>> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>> > Cc: Louis Maher ; 'tolga karatas'
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
>> > reader,
>> >
>> > Hello Tolga,
>> >
>> > If you are willing to learn LaTex, MathType is accessible for the blind
>> > with
>> > JAWS.  Here is a message I received from Neil Soiffer (I do not have a
>> > current e-mail address for Neil).  Note that while he talks about NVDA,
>> > MathTypes works well in JAWS.
>> >
>> > I do not think you need MathPlayer in JAWS.
>> > -----
>> > "You can use Word+NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to author and read math if
>> > you
>> > are willing to learn the math component of LaTeX. If you already have a
>> > document with math in it, then the above combination will work for
>> *reading
>> > *and navigating the math by speech. If you want to author math, then in
>> > Word
>> > you can type in some LaTeX between $ $ and use MathType to convert that
>> > into
>> > MathType math (so it looks nice), which can then be spoken and
>> > navigated.
>> > Given that it is easy to make a mistake in LaTeX, hearing the math
>> > gives
>> > you
>> > a way to know that you have typed it correctly. If you didn't, then you
>> > convert it back into LaTeX and edit it and listen again.
>> >
>> > FYI: changing between LaTeX and vice-versa is done with ""Toggle TeX""
>> > which
>> > has the keyboard shortcut alt+. As the name ""Toggle"" implies, alt+
>> > will
>> > also change the MathType equation back to TeX.
>> >
>> > Here is a concrete example, if you want to write ""the integral from 0
>> > to
>> > 10
>> > of x times e to the negative 2x power, d x"", you would type into Word:
>> > $int_0^{10} x e^{-2 x} dx$ alt+
>> >
>> > Press left arrow to move before the math to make NVDA read the math to
>> you.
>> > If you made a mistake, type alt+ and move right to edit the LaTeX.
>> >
>> > FYI: when I initially typed the example, I made a common TeX error of
>> > not
>> > putting the ""10"" inside of {}s. Be careful to add braces to any
>> subscript
>> > or superscript that is more than one character.
>> >
>> > Neil Soiffer
>> > Use insert equations to start entering an equation.
>> >
>> > -----
>> >
>> > If you are on the image of an equation, you type alt+backslash and the
>> > equation will be converted to LaTex, and you can read and change it.
>> >
>> > I have attached an example file to try this.
>> >
>> >
>> > I am just beginning to learn this.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > Louis Maher
>> > Phone: 713-444-7838 <%28713%29%20444-7838>
>> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> > tolga
>> > karatas via Blindmath
>> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:45 PM
>> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
>> > Subject: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>> >
>> > Dear Sir/madam,
>> >
>> > I am a visually impaired studying a  degree in BSC Business Information
>> > technology:
>> >
>> > I would like to use Math Type with a screen reader called Jaws, but
>> > jaws
>> > isn't user friendly with math type due to LaTEX not being user friendly
>> > either, how can I over come this challenge please? I really want to use
>> > math
>> > type with Jaws Screen reader, however, the accessibility is not their.
>> >
>> > Can someone advise me as to how I can solve this problem/challenge
>> please?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yours Faithfully,
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Tolga Karatas
>> >
>> > I am a blind student studying BSC Business Information Technology.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg&rediffng=0>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Blindmath:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg%2F&rediffng=0>
>> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eblin
dscience%2Eorg%2Fblindmath%2Dgems%2Dhome&rediffng=0>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg&rediffng=0>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Blindmath:
>> >
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci.com
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg%2Fmndmrn%2540hbci%2Ecom&re
diffng=0>
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eblin
dscience%2Eorg%2Fblindmath%2Dgems%2Dhome&rediffng=0>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg&rediffng=0>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Blindmath:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg%2F&rediffng=0>
>> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eblin
dscience%2Eorg%2Fblindmath%2Dgems%2Dhome&rediffng=0>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg&rediffng=0>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > Blindmath:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg%2F&rediffng=0>
>> > soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eblin
dscience%2Eorg%2F&rediffng=0>
>> > blindmath-gems-home>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blindmath mailing list
>> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg&rediffng=0>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> Blindmath:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/rebecca%40xrcvc.org
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fnfbnet%2Eo
rg%2Fmailman%2Foptions%2Fblindmath%5Fnfbnet%2Eorg%2Frebecca%2540xrcvc%2Eorg&
rediffng=0>
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>> blindmath-gems-home
>>
<//prolinks.rediffmailpro.com/cgi-bin/prored.cgi?red=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eblin
dscience%2Eorg%2Fblindmath%2Dgems%2Dhome&rediffng=0>
>> >
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: 27 Feb 2017 21:42:15 -0000
> From: "Rebecca Maria Carvalho" <rebecca at xrcvc.org>
> To: <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
> Cc: <blindmath at nfbnet.org>, <ljmaher at swbell.net>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath]  {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws
> 	screen reader,
> Message-ID:
>
<1488226328.S.35231.28732.pro-237-55.1488231735.1639 at webmail.rediffmail.com>
> 	
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Thank you for your reply!
> So, we do hear Math speech for the Math with NVDA + MathPlayer.
> But so far we have been using the Focus 40 with JAWS. (I thought it only
> worked with JAWS). With JAWS we do get the Braille for the regular text in
> the Word file, but when it reaches the Math it displays its spelling in
> Braille rather than the Nemeth symbols.For example it would display "five
> plus five" and so on.
> Will try the Focus 40 with NVDA and try what you suggested.
> But could you also tell me which Refreshable Braillers work best and are
> used to display Nemeth with MathPlayer + NVDA to read MathType Equations
> directly from your Word file ?
> Rebecca
>
>
>
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>
>
>
>
> From: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
> Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 01:42:08 GMT+0530
> To: Rebecca Maria Carvalho <rebecca at xrcvc.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> NVDA asks MathPlayer for the braille and then sends it to the braille
> display. If NVDA supports the Focus 4, then it should work. According to
> their documentation, all Focus displays are supported. If you aren't
getting
> braille for text in a Word document, then their is some problem with your
> NVDA/braille display setup.
>
> If you do get braille for regular text and can hear the math speech when
> moving to math, then you should be getting braille for the math. One thing
> to check is to make sure Braille is set to Nemeth -- see the MathPlayer
> manual on how to check/set the value (it defaults to Nemeth).
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Rebecca Maria Carvalho
> <rebecca at xrcvc.org> wrote:
> Hi,
> Regarding point 4 in your email, you mentioned that MathType's equations
in
> Word can be read in Nemeth on Refreshable Braille displays with NVDA +
Math
> Player.
> Which Refreshable Braille Display can be used for this?And how would one
go
> about it ?
> I have tried reading MathType Equations from Word on the Focus 40
> Refreshable Braille Display, but it did not display Nemeth.
> We have been looking for the solution to this for a while but have not
been
> able to find any Refreshable Braille Display that displays Nemeth Braille
> Code.Please do let us know.
> Rebecca
> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>
> From: Neil Soiffer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:33:32 GMT+0530
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?}  math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> A few notes and clarifications about MathType:
>
>
>
> 1.  LaTeX is not the underlying language for MathType -- LaTeX along
> with
>
> MathML and a few other formats are alternative representations that
>
> MathType supports for import and export.
>
>
>
> 2. The translator from MathType to LaTeX is somewhat simple and puts in
far
>
> more braces than are needed. It's easier to generate that way and legal
>
> LaTeX. It does unfortunately make it harder to read and listen to.
>
>
>
> 3.  If you type LaTeX and convert it to MathType, MathType will
> remember
>
> the original LaTeX and preserve it unless you edit the equation in
>
> MathType. So if you start with LaTeX without many braces, convert it to
>
> MathType and convert it back to LaTeX, it will look exactly the way you
>
> typed it.
>
>
>
> 4.  If you can't see normal math notation, a VERY big advantage of
> using
>
> Word+MathType+NVDA+MathPlayer when entering LaTeX is that once you convert
>
> the LaTeX to normal math notation, it can be read by NVDA+MathPlayer and
>
> displayed in Nemeth on a refreshible braille display. That's important
>
> because you have no way of knowing if you made a mistake in typing the
>
> LaTeX without getting that feedback. Making occasional mistakes in LaTeX
>
> happens to everyone, so getting feedback via sight, sound, or touch is
>
> really important if you want to make sure others understand what you
wrote.
>
>
>
> 5.  AFAIK, JAWS does not support speaking/brailling math in Word
> documents.
>
> If that has changed in the last year, please let me and others on the list
>
> know.
>
>
>
> I hope that clarifies a few things,
>
>
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Louis Maher via Blindmath <
>
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi Doug,
>
> >
>
> > I borrow the document I sent the list from another person.  I
did
> not write
>
> > it, and I can't answer questions on its syntax.  I am just
> starting to
>
> > learn
>
> > Latex and MathType.
>
> >
>
> > I do not know if it matters, but I am a JAWS user.
>
> >
>
> > I was able to turn the equation image into Latex and back to an image
> by
>
> > using alt+.  When I was looking at the Latex version of the
> equation, I
>
> > moved the cursor onto the first $ and hit alt+, and the equation
> turned
>
> > back into an image.  I am using Office 2016, JAWS 18, and
MathType
> 6.9.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Louis Maher
>
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Doug
>
> > and
>
> > Molly Miron via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:16 PM
>
> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>
> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>
> > Cc: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
>
> > Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
> screen
>
> > reader,
>
> >
>
> > Good day Louis,
>
> >
>
> > I'm new to TeX and LaTeX and found your message very helpful.  I
> didn't
>
> > know
>
> > that TeX is the underlying language for MathType.  Also, it took
> me a while
>
> > to discover that alt+ is alt+[backslash] because NVDA doesn't read
the
>
> > character unless I single-step through it.  After reading your
> example
>
> > document, I opened, in current versions of Word, MathType and
> MathPlayer, a
>
> > document I'd written several years ago inold versions of Word and
> MathType.
>
> > The alt+ brought out the underlying TeX, but it wouldn't convert
> back.  In
>
> > your example and my old document, exponents are heavily braced, even
> when
>
> > there is only one character.  Why is this?  In your e-mail
> integral example
>
> > it seems you got away with minimal bracing.  The letter "n"
seems
> to be
>
> > used
>
> > as a filler in multi-line equations.  Can yoou recommend a
> reference for
>
> > math type-setting in TeX or LaTeX?  Thanks.
>
> >
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Doug Miron
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> >     From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:05 PM
>
> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>
> > Cc: Louis Maher ; 'tolga karatas'
>
> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
> reader,
>
> >
>
> > Hello Tolga,
>
> >
>
> > If you are willing to learn LaTex, MathType is accessible for the
> blind
>
> > with
>
> > JAWS.  Here is a message I received from Neil Soiffer (I do not
> have a
>
> > current e-mail address for Neil).  Note that while he talks
about
> NVDA,
>
> > MathTypes works well in JAWS.
>
> >
>
> > I do not think you need MathPlayer in JAWS.
>
> > -----
>
> > "You can use Word+NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to author and read math if
> you
>
> > are willing to learn the math component of LaTeX. If you already have
> a
>
> > document with math in it, then the above combination will work for
> *reading
>
> > *and navigating the math by speech. If you want to author math, then
> in
>
> > Word
>
> > you can type in some LaTeX between $ $ and use MathType to convert
> that
>
> > into
>
> > MathType math (so it looks nice), which can then be spoken and
> navigated.
>
> > Given that it is easy to make a mistake in LaTeX, hearing the math
> gives
>
> > you
>
> > a way to know that you have typed it correctly. If you didn't, then
> you
>
> > convert it back into LaTeX and edit it and listen again.
>
> >
>
> > FYI: changing between LaTeX and vice-versa is done with ""Toggle
TeX""
>
> > which
>
> > has the keyboard shortcut alt+. As the name ""Toggle"" implies, alt+
> will
>
> > also change the MathType equation back to TeX.
>
> >
>
> > Here is a concrete example, if you want to write ""the integral from
0
> to
>
> > 10
>
> > of x times e to the negative 2x power, d x"", you would type into
> Word:
>
> > $int_0^{10} x e^{-2 x} dx$ alt+
>
> >
>
> > Press left arrow to move before the math to make NVDA read the math
to
> you.
>
> > If you made a mistake, type alt+ and move right to edit the LaTeX.
>
> >
>
> > FYI: when I initially typed the example, I made a common TeX error of
> not
>
> > putting the ""10"" inside of {}s. Be careful to add braces to any
> subscript
>
> > or superscript that is more than one character.
>
> >
>
> > Neil Soiffer
>
> > Use insert equations to start entering an equation.
>
> >
>
> > -----
>
> >
>
> > If you are on the image of an equation, you type alt+backslash and
the
>
> > equation will be converted to LaTex, and you can read and change it.
>
> >
>
> > I have attached an example file to try this.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I am just beginning to learn this.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Regards
>
> > Louis Maher
>
> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>
> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>
> >
>
> > -----Original Message-----
>
> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> tolga
>
> > karatas via Blindmath
>
> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:45 PM
>
> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
>
> > Subject: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen reader,
>
> >
>
> > Dear Sir/madam,
>
> >
>
> > I am a visually impaired studying a  degree in BSC Business
> Information
>
> > technology:
>
> >
>
> > I would like to use Math Type with a screen reader called Jaws, but
> jaws
>
> > isn't user friendly with math type due to LaTEX not being user
> friendly
>
> > either, how can I over come this challenge please? I really want to
> use
>
> > math
>
> > type with Jaws Screen reader, however, the accessibility is not
their.
>
> >
>
> > Can someone advise me as to how I can solve this problem/challenge
> please?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Yours Faithfully,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Tolga Karatas
>
> >
>
> > I am a blind student studying BSC Business Information Technology.
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>
> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/mndmrn%40hbci.com
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>
> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>
> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Blindmath mailing list
>
> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>
> > Blindmath:
>
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>
> > soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
>
> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>
> > blindmath-gems-home>
>
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Blindmath mailing list
>
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> Blindmath:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/rebecca%40xrcvc.org
>
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 15:07:06 -0800
> From: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
> 	<blindmath at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Rebecca Maria Carvalho <rebecca at xrcvc.org>,	Louis Maher
> 	<ljmaher at swbell.net>
> Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: {Spam?} math type accessibility with
> 	jaws screen reader,
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAESRWkCvXvJ_oNBPvw20xi6UHs8O3_Tp0GkpwtEt1tBrZ63GhA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> I can't say which display works best other than the obvious "the more
> cells, the better" -- although Nemeth Code is more compact that UEB,
> medium-sized equations will often take more than 40 cells.
>
> Neil Soiffer
>
> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Rebecca Maria Carvalho via Blindmath <
> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your reply!
>> So, we do hear Math speech for the Math with NVDA + MathPlayer.
>> But so far we have been using the Focus 40 with JAWS. (I thought it only
>> worked with JAWS). With JAWS we do get the Braille for the regular text
>> in
>> the Word file, but when it reaches the Math it displays its spelling in
>> Braille rather than the Nemeth symbols.For example it would display "five
>> plus five" and so on.
>> Will try the Focus 40 with NVDA and try what you suggested.
>> But could you also tell me which Refreshable Braillers work best and are
>> used to display Nemeth with MathPlayer + NVDA to read MathType Equations
>> directly from your Word file ?
>> Rebecca
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Neil Soiffer <soiffer at alum.mit.edu>
>> Sent: Tue, 28 Feb 2017 01:42:08 GMT+0530
>> To: Rebecca Maria Carvalho <rebecca at xrcvc.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?} math type accessibility with jaws screen
>> reader,
>>
>> NVDA asks MathPlayer for the braille and then sends it to the braille
>> display. If NVDA supports the Focus 4, then it should work. According to
>> their documentation, all Focus displays are supported. If you aren't
>> getting braille for text in a Word document, then their is some problem
>> with your NVDA/braille display setup.
>>
>> If you do get braille for regular text and can hear the math speech when
>> moving to math, then you should be getting braille for the math. One
>> thing
>> to check is to make sure Braille is set to Nemeth -- see the MathPlayer
>> manual on how to check/set the value (it defaults to Nemeth).
>>
>> Neil Soiffer
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:58 AM, Rebecca Maria Carvalho &
>> lt;rebecca at xrcvc.org> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Regarding point 4 in your email, you mentioned that MathType's equations
>> in Word can be read in Nemeth on Refreshable Braille displays with NVDA +
>> Math Player.
>> Which Refreshable Braille Display can be used for this?And how would one
>> go about it ?
>> I have tried reading MathType Equations from Word on the Focus 40
>> Refreshable Braille Display, but it did not display Nemeth.
>> We have been looking for the solution to this for a while but have not
>> been able to find any Refreshable Braille Display that displays Nemeth
>> Braille Code.Please do let us know.
>> Rebecca
>> Sent from RediffmailNG on Android
>>
>> From: Neil Soiffer via Blindmath <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:33:32 GMT+0530
>> To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics &
>> lt;blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Blindmath] {Spam?}  math type accessibility with jaws
>> screen
>> reader,
>>
>> A few notes and clarifications about MathType:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1.  LaTeX is not the underlying language for MathType -- LaTeX along
>> with
>>
>> MathML and a few other formats are alternative representations that
>>
>> MathType supports for import and export.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. The translator from MathType to LaTeX is somewhat simple and puts in
>> far
>>
>> more braces than are needed. It's easier to generate that way and legal
>>
>> LaTeX. It does unfortunately make it harder to read and listen to.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.  If you type LaTeX and convert it to MathType, MathType will
>> remember
>>
>> the original LaTeX and preserve it unless you edit the equation in
>>
>> MathType. So if you start with LaTeX without many braces, convert it to
>>
>> MathType and convert it back to LaTeX, it will look exactly the way you
>>
>> typed it.
>>
>>
>>
>> 4.  If you can't see normal math notation, a VERY big advantage of
>> using
>>
>> Word+MathType+NVDA+MathPlayer when entering LaTeX is that once you
>> convert
>>
>> the LaTeX to normal math notation, it can be read by NVDA+MathPlayer and
>>
>> displayed in Nemeth on a refreshible braille display. That's important
>>
>> because you have no way of knowing if you made a mistake in typing the
>>
>> LaTeX without getting that feedback. Making occasional mistakes in LaTeX
>>
>> happens to everyone, so getting feedback via sight, sound, or touch is
>>
>> really important if you want to make sure others understand what you
>> wrote.
>>
>>
>>
>> 5.  AFAIK, JAWS does not support speaking/brailling math in Word
>> documents.
>>
>> If that has changed in the last year, please let me and others on the
>> list
>>
>> know.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hope that clarifies a few things,
>>
>>
>>
>> Neil Soiffer
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:04 PM, Louis Maher via Blindmath <
>>
>> blindmath at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > Hi Doug,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I borrow the document I sent the list from another person.  I
>> did not write
>>
>> > it, and I can't answer questions on its syntax.  I am just
>> starting to
>>
>> > learn
>>
>> > Latex and MathType.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I do not know if it matters, but I am a JAWS user.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I was able to turn the equation image into Latex and back to an
>> image
>> by
>>
>> > using alt+.  When I was looking at the Latex version of the
>> equation, I
>>
>> > moved the cursor onto the first $ and hit alt+, and the equation
>> turned
>>
>> > back into an image.  I am using Office 2016, JAWS 18, and
>> MathType 6.9.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Regards
>>
>> > Louis Maher
>>
>> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>>
>> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> Doug
>>
>> > and
>>
>> > Molly Miron via Blindmath
>>
>> > Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2017 2:16 PM
>>
>> > To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics
>>
>> > <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
>>
>> > Cc: Doug and Molly Miron <mndmrn at hbci.com>
>>
>> > Subject: [Blindmath] {Spam?} Re: math type accessibility with jaws
>> screen
>>
>> > reader,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Good day Louis,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I'm new to TeX and LaTeX and found your message very helpful. 
>> I
>> didn't
>>
>> > know
>>
>> > that TeX is the underlying language for MathType.  Also, it
>> took
>> me a while
>>
>> > to discover that alt+ is alt+[backslash] because NVDA doesn't read
>> the
>>
>> > character unless I single-step through it.  After reading your
>> example
>>
>> > document, I opened, in current versions of Word, MathType and
>> MathPlayer, a
>>
>> > document I'd written several years ago inold versions of Word and
>> MathType.
>>
>> > The alt+ brought out the underlying TeX, but it wouldn't convert
>> back.  In
>>
>> > your example and my old document, exponents are heavily braced, even
>> when
>>
>> > there is only one character.  Why is this?  In your e-mail
>> integral example
>>
>> > it seems you got away with minimal bracing.  The letter "n"
>> seems to be
>>
>> > used
>>
>> > as a filler in multi-line equations.  Can yoou recommend a
>> reference for
>>
>> > math type-setting in TeX or LaTeX?  Thanks.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Regards,
>>
>> > Doug Miron
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>>
>> >     From: Louis Maher via Blindmath
>>
>> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 7:05 PM
>>
>> > To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics'
>>
>> > Cc: Louis Maher ; 'tolga karatas'
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
>> reader,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Hello Tolga,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > If you are willing to learn LaTex, MathType is accessible for the
>> blind
>>
>> > with
>>
>> > JAWS.  Here is a message I received from Neil Soiffer (I do not
>> have a
>>
>> > current e-mail address for Neil).  Note that while he talks
>> about NVDA,
>>
>> > MathTypes works well in JAWS.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I do not think you need MathPlayer in JAWS.
>>
>> > -----
>>
>> > "You can use Word+NVDA+MathPlayer+MathType to author and read math
>> if
>> you
>>
>> > are willing to learn the math component of LaTeX. If you already
>> have
>> a
>>
>> > document with math in it, then the above combination will work for
>> *reading
>>
>> > *and navigating the math by speech. If you want to author math, then
>> in
>>
>> > Word
>>
>> > you can type in some LaTeX between $ $ and use MathType to convert
>> that
>>
>> > into
>>
>> > MathType math (so it looks nice), which can then be spoken and
>> navigated.
>>
>> > Given that it is easy to make a mistake in LaTeX, hearing the math
>> gives
>>
>> > you
>>
>> > a way to know that you have typed it correctly. If you didn't, then
>> you
>>
>> > convert it back into LaTeX and edit it and listen again.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > FYI: changing between LaTeX and vice-versa is done with ""Toggle
>> TeX""
>>
>> > which
>>
>> > has the keyboard shortcut alt+. As the name ""Toggle"" implies, alt+
>> will
>>
>> > also change the MathType equation back to TeX.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Here is a concrete example, if you want to write ""the integral from
>> 0 to
>>
>> > 10
>>
>> > of x times e to the negative 2x power, d x"", you would type into
>> Word:
>>
>> > $int_0^{10} x e^{-2 x} dx$ alt+
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Press left arrow to move before the math to make NVDA read the math
>> to you.
>>
>> > If you made a mistake, type alt+ and move right to edit the LaTeX.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > FYI: when I initially typed the example, I made a common TeX error
>> of
>> not
>>
>> > putting the ""10"" inside of {}s. Be careful to add braces to any
>> subscript
>>
>> > or superscript that is more than one character.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Neil Soiffer
>>
>> > Use insert equations to start entering an equation.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----
>>
>> >
>>
>> > If you are on the image of an equation, you type alt+backslash and
>> the
>>
>> > equation will be converted to LaTex, and you can read and change it.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I have attached an example file to try this.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I am just beginning to learn this.
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Regards
>>
>> > Louis Maher
>>
>> > Phone: 713-444-7838
>>
>> > E-mail: ljmaher at swbell.net
>>
>> >
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>>
>> > From: Blindmath [mailto:blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
>> tolga
>>
>> > karatas via Blindmath
>>
>> > Sent: Friday, February 24, 2017 4:45 PM
>>
>> > To: blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>
>> > Cc: tolga karatas <tolga.karatas2014 at gmail.com>
>>
>> > Subject: [Blindmath] math type accessibility with jaws screen
>> reader,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Dear Sir/madam,
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I am a visually impaired studying a  degree in BSC Business
>> Information
>>
>> > technology:
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I would like to use Math Type with a screen reader called Jaws, but
>> jaws
>>
>> > isn't user friendly with math type due to LaTEX not being user
>> friendly
>>
>> > either, how can I over come this challenge please? I really want to
>> use
>>
>> > math
>>
>> > type with Jaws Screen reader, however, the accessibility is not
>> their.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Can someone advise me as to how I can solve this problem/challenge
>> please?
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Yours Faithfully,
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > Tolga Karatas
>>
>> >
>>
>> > I am a blind student studying BSC Business Information Technology.
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>>
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>>
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>>
>> > Blindmath:
>>
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>
>> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>>
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>>
>> > Blindmath mailing list
>>
>> > Blindmath at nfbnet.org
>>
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
>>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>>
>> > Blindmath:
>>
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>> mndmrn%40hbci.com
>>
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> for
>>
>> > Blindmath:
>>
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/
>>
>> > ljmaher%40swbell.net
>>
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at
>>
>> > <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> >
>>
>> >
>>
>> > _______________________________________________
>>
>> > Blindmath mailing list
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>>
>> > soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
>>
>> > BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.org/
>>
>> > blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindmath_nfbnet.org/rebecca%40xrcvc.org
>>
>> BlindMath Gems can be found at <http://www.blindscience.
>> org/blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>>
>>
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>> soiffer%40alum.mit.edu
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>> blindmath-gems-home>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Blindmath mailing list
> Blindmath at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindmath_nfbnet.org
> BlindMath Gems can be found at
> <http://www.blindscience.org/blindmath-gems-home>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Blindmath Digest, Vol 127, Issue 22
> ******************************************
>

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