[BlindMath] SPSS

Fri Sep 13 14:10:56 UTC 2019

Jonathan, I'm just catching up on this thread.  I'm the alternate format production program manager for students with disabilities at University of Colorado.  I joined this list several years ago at the suggestion of one of my blind students (who has since graduated and is working at google in an area not related to accessibility). Reading all the emails on this list really does help me create roadmaps for how to create content properly for students, and how to help them access it.

First, I agree that sometimes there needs to be better training/support available when it comes to some software that students are using. A student who doesn't have a good grasp of technology and how to use it is really going to struggle.

Secondly, you make an excellent point about inaccessible content, portals, and etc. on campus.  There is such a huge disconnect between faculty and staff, in that faculty can pretty much do what they want and pick whatever portal or content they want, and staff then have to try to make it work for students.  Students complain to me, of course, but I can't change it, and administration is not interested in enforcing our digital accessibility policies on campus.  Students need to complain, and loudly, to administration, and to the Office of Civil Rights, the NFB, whoever.  I am a lowly staff member and have no power to enforce policy on faculty.  The voices that work are the students (and their parents, if applicable).  Most of the time, faculty and administration think that this is just a small problem, because it only affects a handful of students.  Yet we're this major university, graduating chemists and engineers and researchers, and we should not be behaving this way. Every student matters, every student is paying tuition and every student got accepted here because they are qualified to be here.  Then we just dig a big pit in front of students with disabilities and let them fall into it.  It makes me angry.  I do what I can to advocate, but I'm one voice, in one tiny little department, pitted against 5000 faculty members who have been taught for years that they can do what they want.

If I could offer any advice at all to students who are finding these roadblocks on their campuses, it would be to let your voice be heard!  You don't have to print out a big sign and march around campus.  You just need to send a few emails to the right people.  Start at the top, not at the bottom.  The provost, the academic deans and chancellors and vice chancellors.  The office of discrimination and harassment or whoever handles all the federal title violations, the ADA office, anyone that is not the disability services office.  Sitting and complaining changes nothing.  And while I wish things would just get fixed without someone making a stink about it, the fact is, the squeaky wheel gets the grease! 

Susan Kelmer
Alternate Format Production Program Manager
Disability Services
University of Colorado Boulder
303-735-4836

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Godfrey, Jonathan via BlindMath
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2019 5:34 PM
To: Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Godfrey, Jonathan <A.J.Godfrey at massey.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS

Hello Lynn and all,

I really struggle to work out what to say to people who try to work with inaccessible software without expressing quite a lot of personal frustration. I've read Sina's message on using a Mac just now for inspiration on how to say something nicely. I'm not sure I can manage to match it, but there are things that need to be discussed.

Yes, there is plenty of software that is not working for blind people.

In addition though, I suggest that we have quite a few problems with software that are our fault, not the fault of the software itself.

- We do not learn from the experiences of others. All too often, I see people run the same experiments that lead to a failure and report it is if it was something unknown to the experts. I regularly check to see what comes up when I search for "statistics software blind" and rearrangements; the list is pretty good on Google today although this might be seen as blatant self-promotion. <smiles>
- We have resources that present information that was accurate at the time of writing but has gone stale. This is unfortunate as what worked for someone ten years ago is often assumed to still work.
- We have blind people claiming that software is accessible when it is not. Often this is because we have a power user making a claim that is not appropriate for a novice.
- We have blind people who do not know how to use the tools they do have. I see this most often as a consequence of not knowing how to use their chosen screen reader properly. All too often, this is then blamed on the mainstream software.
- We have blind people using the wrong blindness tools for a job. I've seen students using new equipment that they shouldn't have purchased in the first place. As an aside, I see this happen for many sighted students too, but that doesn't make it OK.
- I've seen far too many people with low-vision struggle because they haven't yet worked out that working sighted is harder than working blind. Thankfully, the contrary is also true because I have met low-vision students who use braille and print interchangeably.
- We have let ourselves be supported so much that our first port of call is a disability support service. This is good in a student's first year of university, but employers don't offer such services. Perhaps the biggest problem here is that the onus of support gets shifted from the teaching department onto the disability support staff. With respect to STEM subjects that is often a recipe for sub-optimal results. I have to say though that I receive about as many requests for assistance from the three groups of people - students themselves (best in my opinion), their teaching staff (good, but even better if this has followed a conversation with the student), and disability support staff (OK, but I see this as a backstop measure and while helpful, I still think it is far from ideal).
- We have not complained about inaccessible software enough. Vendors continue to sell their inaccessible products to universities, sometimes with false information about the accessibility of their software. No one complains so nothing changes. Universities continue to purchase substandard software because they don't know any better.
- we do not have reliable systems for sharing the knowledge we do have. If we did, the above list would be considerably shorter.
- there is very limited resource to assist every blind student in need by way of comprehensive support. It is over five years since anyone fully funded me to assist blind students. The only way I've managed to do so is to seek research funding and claim that my interactions with the students benefit my work or to piggy back workshops around conference travel.

On the bright side:

- there are numerous people who are looking out for blind people's needs in STEM subjects. This is the season for people making contact with me. I can report that I've handled a dozen requests in the last month alone.
- there are software solutions that do work for blind people doing statistics courses. R and  SAS are the only two that get any real support for blind people. A student using anything else does so at their own peril; a student who does so without the support of their teaching staff does themselves no good at all.
- Publicly available accessible resources to support students and teaching staff do exist.

Please note: this is not a get at Lynn message. I've seen too many people just like Lynn and unless something changes, there will be another one soon.  I actually think it is well past the time when blind people ourselves stood up and said that the current way things are working is not working for us. We need to do so knowing what we're doing well, and what we're not doing so well though.

Jonathan

-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Lynn Wilson via BlindMath
Sent: Friday, 13 September 2019 4:06 AM
To: 'Blind Math list for those interested in mathematics' <blindmath at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Lynn Wilson <admin at nadp-uk.org>
Subject: Re: [BlindMath] SPSS

Hi

I spent a lot of time trying to assist a blind student use Jaws and SPSS. We eventually got in a specialist VI trainer who set the systems so most were workable with copying and pasting to a document so she could read the data.
Even then she required sighted assistance for some tasks. I was later advised that it would be better to use R Statistics from the R project.
https://www.r-project.org/ 

Hope this helps

Lynn

Lynn Wilson AMNADP
Operations Manager
National Association of Disability Practitioners Ltd Lansdowne Building, 2 Lansdowne Rd. East Croydon, CR9 2ER Tel. 02082636220; Mobile: 07984405456
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-----Original Message-----
From: BlindMath <blindmath-bounces at nfbnet.org> On Behalf Of Jeannie Massay via BlindMath
Sent: 30 August 2019 03:59
To: BlindMath at nfbnet.org
Cc: Jeannie Massay <jmassay1 at cox.net>
Subject: [BlindMath] SPSS

Hello all- 

Does anyone have experience using SPSS and JAWS? When installing the program asks if you are using JAWS. However the menus and thus, the program seems to be inaccessible. Any thoughts or suggestions? 

Thanks, 

Jeannie 

Jeannie Massay, President
National Federation of the Blind of Oklahoma
405-600-0695
president at nfbok.org
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