[nabs-l] freinds

Mon Nov 3 19:56:54 UTC 2008

You are right, Carey.  The people in question could be too busy.
However, may I point out that my younger brother, eighteen years old,
already has a girlfriend and runs around everywhere with her?  I am
envious of every sighted person who has a significant other, and you
know why he has her?  Because he can immitate appropriate social
skills.  I am a firm believer in having good social skills as a
prerequisite to scoring with the oppoite sex.  The key to winning a
successful date and keeping that significant other is having good
social skills.  I have a young man in college here at FSU who is a
friend, but he understands unlike the previous people I've dealt with,
the nature of blindness and its accessories because his mom had a
blind student.  I've spoken to him and his mom about this issue and it
just makes sense that he wouldn't simply give up on me as a friend.  I
admit I did a few things he didn't like, but then he admitted he
wouldn't give up.
Beth

On 11/3/08, Carrie Gilmer <carrie.gilmer at gmail.com> wrote:
> I would just like to add to Beth and Hope,
>
> Jordan has not had many social offers himself. And he is well liked and this
> is key-respected- in class and in the extra curricular groups. I have found
> that blind people maybe especially need to be very pro-active on this. I
> told him once that to eat lunch with others he needed to initiate, or to go
> out, he needed to call. I told him he was not like a Hollywood Star, people
> were not going to line up to go out with him. In my own life, as a sighted
> person, I can tell you that nearly every one of my friendships are because I
> my self kept in contact. I called, I made the lunch date, I invited them
> over, I remembered the birthday card. I have friends from grade school
> still, but most often I am the one to keep up the contact. It is often that
> way, some people are better at it. I never care or make anyone feel it
> mattered if they haven't called me for three years, I don't even listen to
> the "excuse" I just say forget it, how are you now, wanna do lunch on
> Thursday and catch up?
>
> I know that there are people who will avoid the blindness, most are though
> just unsure. But I think it can affect fro your end too, in the can you walk
> the walk you talk totally? Like that little girl I mentioned, IF your skill
> level and independence is not truly equal that can effect. But on the other
> hand kids know Jordan is equal to them in school, I think sometimes they
> don't realize he is equally independent out of school too. On the other
> hand, he is often too busy to have any free time to go out, and these days I
> know a lot of students (my husband is a high school teacher) who are high
> GPA, working jobs, volunteering and in extra curricular and they don't have
> time much either. So I think they aren't calling like he isn't, just too
> busy!
>
>
>
> Carrie Gilmer, President
> National Organization of Parents of Blind Children
> A Division of the National Federation of the Blind
> NFB National Center: 410-659-9314
> Home Phone: 763-784-8590
> carrie.gilmer at gmail.com
> www.nfb.org/nopbc
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Hope Paulos
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:57 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>
> I was in the same boat, Beth.  I totally understand what you
> mean.  I had one very good friend, so I thought, in high school.
> She would do things with me, but when it came time to be with me
> or her sighted friends, (she was also sighted), she chose them
> instead.  There were very few times when she would invite to go
> places with her other friends.  I guess she didn't accept the
> blindness.
>
> Hope and Beignet
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:11:39 -0500
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Social Etiquette
>
>>I think joining an extracurricular activity and going out with
> friends
>>is a great idea, but let's face it: people have to have the
> friends in
>>the first place.  I had practically no friends in high school
> that I
>>could go shopping with, and my oly connection to the rld wa
> marching
>>band and chorus.  That was it.
>>Beth
>
>>On 11/3/08, T.  Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Arielle,
>
>>> I don't think knowledge and motivation are enough.  What is
> needed along
>>> with those things is someone we trust who is willing to pull us
> aside and
>>> say, "Let me tell you what I just saw..."  Honest,
> non-judgmental feedback
>>> is necessary for improvement.  If you know what you just did and
> what cue
>>> you just missed, you can adapt.  If you don't, you can't.
>
>>> Joseph
>
>>> On Mon, Nov 03, 2008 at 05:43:21AM +1100, Arielle Silverman
> wrote:
>>>>Hi all,
>
>>>>I certainly think that social skills/etiquette is important for
> high
>>>>school students to understand when transitioning to college and
>>>>beyond.  One of the difficulties with detailing it on the fact
> sheet is
>>>>that many rules of etiquette and social grace vary depending on
> the
>>>>situation and the expectations of the people around.  Just as
> there is
>>>>more than one way to look fashionable, there is more than one way
> to
>>>>be "well-mannered" and what is considered appropriate for one
> setting
>>>>may be considered wildly inappropriate in a different one.
> Really what
>>>>I think we want to capture is the ability to adapt to situations
> and
>>>>"blend in" by following the social/etiquette norms called for in
> those
>>>>situations.
>
>>>>I would also point out that I think most adolescents (blind and
>>>>sighted) who didn't grow up under a rock have a pretty good
>>>>intellectual knowledge of what is and isn't appropriate public
>>>>behavior.  However, there is a big difference between simply
> knowing
>>>>what's appropriate and actually complying with social norms.  In
> order
>>>>to comply with social norms one must know what they are, and also
> be
>>>>motivated to comply with them, and be in full  control of their
>>>>behavior.  Returning to the hypothetical ten-year-old kid who
> picks
>>>>his nose in public, it's possible that he honestly doesn't know
> that
>>>>it's inappropriate.  More likely, though, is that he's  been told
> it's
>>>>inappropriate before (or laughed at for doing it), but he simply
>>>>doesn't care-either because his parents didn't scold or punish
> him for
>>>>doing it, or because they did but they're simply not around in
> the
>>>>situation and the kid doesn't think he's likely to get in trouble
> for
>>>>picking his nose.  A third possibility is that he is motivated to
> not
>>>>pick his nose, but he's just spaced out and doesn't realize he's
> doing
>>>>it, or he has a bad nasal itch and feels compelled to scratch
> inside
>>>>his nose to relieve it, etc.  The point is that mere knowledge of
>>>>etiquette isn't enough-people have to be motivated (ideally,
>>>>self-motivated) to do what's appropriate.  There are some
> behaviors
>>>>commonly seen in blind people-known as "blindisms"-that can
> become so
>>>>habitually ingrained that even when people become motivated to
> stop
>>>>they still  have difficulty doing it.  Eye-poking is an example
> of a
>>>>behavior that most people engaging in it know full well that it's
>>>>unattractive (and bad for their eyes), and often people are
> motivated
>>>>to stop, but some have a very hard time completely eliminating
> it.
>>>>(Speaking from  personal experience here, but also from
> conversations
>>>>with teenagers and adults who have genuinely struggled to stop
> and
>>>>still find themselves occasionally poking their eyes).  To give a
>>>>different example, I think the vast majority of adults know about
> the
>>>>negative consequences of being chronically late for things, but
> there
>>>>are just some people who are always late-maybe they just don't
> care,
>>>>or maybe they do but just haven't figured out how to organize
> their
>>>>time so they're not late, etc.
>
>>>>That said, I do think parents and teachers can help kids improve
> their
>>>>social etiquette-not only by teaching what's appropriate
> (knowledge),
>>>>but by instilling motivation.  Blind kids may be less motivated
> than
>>>>sighted kids to comply with social expectations either because
> they've
>>>>been held to lower standards by adults or because they don't see
> other
>>>>people's negative reactions to their behavior.  So I think the
> emphasis
>>>>should be on teaching blind kids and teens to truly care about
>>>>conducting themselves well in public, adapting to different
> social
>>>>situations and building connections with others-rather than just
>>>>telling them to do or not do certain things.  Giving rewards for
> good
>>>>behavior and punishments for bad is motivating to an extent, but
>>>>eventually kids need to be motivated regardless of who's around
> to
>>>>observe their actions.  Ideally they will learn through
> experience that
>>>>following social norms and initiating connections with others
> makes
>>>>them happier and helps them to reach their goals.
>
>>>>So how do we do this? Any ideas?
>
>>>>Arielle
>
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>
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