[nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology

Thu Nov 20 01:00:54 UTC 2008

There was a blind guy who used to live in New Jersey, who I have it 
on good authority built his own house.  He also put himself through 
college being an auto mechanic.

Dave

At 08:21 PM 11/17/2008, you wrote:
>Well, I really want to believe it too, but I honestly don't think a 
>totally blind person can cut down a Christmas tree, or design and 
>build an elaborate house, or any other  task involving intense 
>manual labor with no assistance
>whatsoever.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Harry Hogue <harryhogue at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Monday, November 17, 2008 7:52 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
>
>As for me, I'm totally blind, so visually impaired wouldn't even 
>come up, and I wouldn't ever say i.
>
>You make a lot of sense.  What really gets me is that I really am 
>not sure, deep down, if someone hwo is totally blind can do the 
>things that someone hwo has some partial vision can, and that is the 
>crux of the matter.  They say, yes, but then I always am wodnering, 
>but can they really?  Cutting Christmas trees, for example.  I don't 
>know, but can a totally blind person really cut down a Christmas 
>tree with no sighteed help?
>
>Harry
>
>P.S.  I really want to believe, I really, really do.
>
>--- On Mon, 11/17/08, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>From: T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 3:46 PM
>
>That's your right, of course.  You're free to go on telling people
>you're
>impaired--I've got better things to do than to encourage that kind of
>thinking while simultaneously trying to change it.  If you ask the right
>person, I'm too blind to be a teacher.  How exactly does me saying,
>"But I
>am only visually impaired" change their minds?  It doesn't--their
>minds
>were made up the second they saw the white cane, if not before even then.
>
>All it does is give hem more ammunition to try and shoot me down.  And
>shoot they will, because blind people should receive special education,
>not provide it.  I'm not going to contribute to that.
>
>Joseph
>
>On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 10:11:22PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote:
> >I'm sorry, I odn't know that I was very clear.  I think
>politically correct language is riddiculous, but I understand about 
>why we call
>the techniques we use alternative... and that is the only term I 
>agree with out
>of the two - blind and alternative.
> >
> >Harry
> >
> >
> >--- On Sat, 11/15/08, T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>wrote:
> >
> >From: T. Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
> >To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 11:22 PM
> >
> >Harry,
> >
> >I object to the concept of political correctness outright.  It forces
> >people to say things they do not mean and mean things they do not say.
> >Morally, that seems wrong to me.
> >
> >I endeavor to say exactly what I think.  Not everyone likes that.  And you
> >know what?  That's fine.  In fact, sometimes I'm wrong.  Thing is,
> >you've
> >got to be willing to accept responsibility for being wrong now and then,
> >or you'd best not say anything.
> >
> >Too often, politically correct speech is used as an excuse to have
> >everything be so nebulous that anything you say can be interpreted any
> >number of ways, none of which you can be held responsible for.  Down that
> >road lies the girlie-men from Joe Orozco's history lesson.  *grin*
> >
> >Joseph
> >
> >On Sat, Nov 15, 2008 at 07:34:36PM -0800, Harry Hogue wrote:
> >>Here's an interesting thought.  We get all bent out of shape about
>the
> >word "visually impaired," or any other kind of "politically
> >correct "language, and insist that we call things the way they are,
>but yet
> >we also insist that the techniques we use be called
>"alternative."  I
> >understand and agree with that one, because "substitute
>techniques"
> >does sound inferior, but I just think it's interesting how strict we
>are on
> >our termonology.
> >>
> >>
> >>--- On Sat, 11/15/08, Chris Westbrook <westbchris at gmail.com>
>wrote:
> >>
> >>From: Chris Westbrook <westbchris at gmail.com>
> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> ><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>Date: Saturday, November 15, 2008, 8:10 PM
> >>
> >>Also, I don't think that just because you call yourself visually
> >impaired
> >>you are necessarily denying your blindness.  I will use an example with
> >another
> >>disability from my own life.  I am hearing impaired.  Notice I said
>hearing
> >>impaired, not deaf.  I choose not to call myself deaf, because deafness
> >>generally implies profound hearing loss, sign language, the inability
>to
> >speak,
> >>etc.  If any of you have been around me for a while, however, you no
>that I
> >do
> >>not deny my hearing loss.  I wear two hearing aids.  I also accept that
> >certain
> >>things are much harder if not impossible for me, such as street
>crossings
> >and
> >>socializing in crowded situations.  Why is it deemed OK for me to call
> >myself
> >>hearing impaired when it is not OK for a visually impaired individual
>to
> >call
> >>themselves visually impaired?  after all, even if you are totally blind
>you
> >are
> >>visually impaired.  The more I think about these things, the more I
>find
> >myself
> >>struggling with some of the stricter points of NFB philosophy.
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "T. Joseph Carter"
> >><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
> >>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2008 8:24 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
> >>
> >>
> >>> I think you are all getting too hung up on empty words.  The NFB
> >>philosophy is about actions and attitudes.
> >>>
> >>> If you call me blind and mean by it that I am helpless, I will
>take
> >>offense.  If you call me impaired and mean that I just can't see
>much
> >but am
> >>otherwise like anyone else, I'll accept your words as respectful.
> >>>
> >>> I can almost always tell the difference, and I bet you can too.
> >>>
> >>> Joseph
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2008 at 11:06:10PM +0000, Corbb O'Connor
>wrote:
> >>>> I didn't write the subject line, but I am assuming that
>was a
> >>blanket marketing e-mail. That is, it was meant to be forwarded around.
> >Just as
> >>we want to attract new members (as has been said by me and others), we
> >>wouldn't want to push people toward the delete button after only
> >reading the
> >>subject line. Marketing, my friends, it's marketing. I agree with
>all
> >of you
> >>-- we in the Federation are blind, even those of us with some residual
> >vision.
> >>Let's not push people away from our great organization before they
>even
> >know
> >>who we are and why we use the words we do. I don't think we're
> >>undermining ourselves or our philosophy -- we're trying to find
>others
> >out
> >>there who don't see as well as their peers (seniors, students,
> >>and...well...everybody else) to show them our positive philosophy on
> >blindness.
> >>>>
> >>>> -----
> >>>> Corbb O'Connor
> >>>> studying at the National University of Ireland, Galway
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Nov 5, 2008, at 10:33 PM, Janice wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello Karen, Terri and Listers,
> >>>>
> >>>> Wow, Karen!! I must say, thanks for calling us, as the nabs
>board
> >and
> >>as
> >>>> nabs members,  out on this very interesting point. I have
>recently
> >>noticed
> >>>> something like this also. I think that Terri's point can
>be a
> >good
> >>one. It
> >>>> might be important for the Federation to use terminology such
>as
> >>visually
> >>>> impaired or low vision, to try to attract a larger facet of
> >people.
> >>These
> >>>> people might be uncomfortable with their blindness, they might
>not
> >>want to
> >>>> identify as blind... so, we say- Hey you visually impaired
> >person...
> >>this
> >>>> group is for you too!
> >>>> Once we have their foot in the door so to speak, then
> >>>> we can teach them about our philosophy and educate them in the
> >fact
> >>that we
> >>>> are all blind individuals> We can then wow them into
>believing
> >that
> >> the visual hierarchy does not matter. Even if you
> >>>> are legally blind,    the key word is blind. One is not going
>to
> >be
> >>>> recognized as a legally visually impaired person, are they?
> >>>>
> >>>> However, I do wonder in certain instances where the lines get
> >blurred
> >>and if
> >>>> we are sacrificing what we are as an organization to try to
>get
> >these
> >>new
> >>>> individuals into our door. For example, not  to pick on one
> >specific
> >>>> facebook group, but I will use the 411 group, since it seems
>to be
> >the
> >>most
> >>>> recent one and has sparked some debate. The salutation line-
> >>"Attention
> >>>> blind and visually impaired high school students!" This
>makes
> >>some sense
> >>>> according to Terri's argument. We want those who self
>identify
> >as
> >>visually
> >>>> impaired to come to our group. Yet, why would we need to use
>the
> >>terminology
> >>>> visually impaired among ourselves and within our Federation
> >family?
> >>>>
> >>>> Why would we use the words low vision, visually impaired, to
>refer
> >to
> >>other
> >>>> Federationist? One such example I an talking about is the
>email
> >>subject line
> >>>> :"for the sake of ne, in which the group was actually
> >announced
> >>to the NABS
> >>>> list. the official heading was something like- Blind and
>Visually
> >>Impaired
> >>>> Teen Group on Facebook. why not just use something like,
>"new
> >>blindness
> >>>> group of facebook!
> >>>> ? I am definitely not trying to point fingers at any specific
> >group or
> >>person... I am really curious, because I have seen terms such as
>visually
> >>impaired, low vision, and high partial , in our literature recently,
>also.
> >I
> >>>> am merely using the facebook post as the most recent and
>relevant
> >>example.
> >>>> Is this a new trend in Federation philosophy? or do we believe
> >that
> >>perhaps
> >>>> trying to be all inclusive has caused us to become a little
>lax
> >and
> >>blur
> >>>> the lines of philosophy? Are the philosophical boundaries of
>all
> >blind
> >>>> members being equal, thus united we stand and divided we fall,
>not
> >as
> >>solid
> >>>> , and binding, now, as when I first joined the
>Federation...?>
> >>>>
> >>>> I really am confused and would love to hear the philosophers
>among
> >us
> >>debate
> >>>> this observation. What are the effects of these happenings, to
>our
> >>>> philosophy? Do we need to tighten our concepts about blindness
>and
> >>what it
> >>>> stands for within the Federation, or is inclusion the matter
>of
> >>importance?
> >>>>
> >>>> Thoughtfully yours,
> >>>>
> >>>> Janice
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terri Rupp"
> >><terri.rupp at gmail.com>
> >>>> To: "NABS list serve" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:25 PM
> >>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Philosophical Terminology
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Karen and all,
> >>>>> The NFB is using different outlets to try to reach out to
> >>nonmembers.
> >>>>> Facebook is just one of them.  Although as you said, the
> >>philosophy of the
> >>>>> federation is based on the word "Blind", that
>word
> >>"Blind" is  sometimes a
> >>>>> negative things to those people struggling to deal or
>accept
> >their
> >>>>> blindness.  It was only until a few years ago that I was
>one
> >of
> >>them.  I
> >>>>> didn't want to associate with anything that labeled me
>as
> >>blind.  I felt
> >>>>> ashamed to be blind and called myself "visually
> >>impaired".  The acceptance
> >>>>> of one's blindness is a grieving process that each
>person
> >goes
> >>through
> >>>>> differently.  What we have to do is serve as positive
>blind
> >role
> >>models,
> >>>>> and show that being blind is no different than being
>short.
> >It is
> >>simply
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> characteristic.  Once we attract them to these groups, we
>can
> >>promote NFB
> >>>>> activities, scholarships, etc and reel them in with our
> >>philosophy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yours,
> >>>>> Terri Rupp, President
> >>>>> National Association of Blind Students
> >>>>>
> >>_______________________________________________
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