[nabs-l] Blindness and Identity

[Jedi]

Arielle,

Any guesses as to why there seems to be an attitutde that mixed 
relationships are better than all blind relationships? I was wondering 
if it has to do with this idea that since the blind inherently have 
lesser social skills, then it would not be a good idea for a blind 
person to mingle with other blind people if they wanted to learn better 
social skills. I agree that that's not true at all, but I was just 
wondering if this couldn't be one explanation for the attitude you describe.

Respectfully,
Jedi


Original message:
> Hi all,

> With all due respect to the discussions thus far regarding the
> components of identity and culture, I'd like to steer the conversation
> a little closer to what we originally started with when we were
> talking about belonging, or lack thereof, in the sighted world,
> joining student clubs, etc. I am curious--Is there such a thing as
> "over-identifying" with blindness or spending too much time with blind
> people? Does spending time with blind people necessarily take away
> from how much time and energy you can put into relationships with the
> sighted? Or, is it possible to simultaneously feel a strong connection
> with other blind people and still engage in productive connections
> with sighted people at work, and have healthy social connections with
> sighted people as well?

> I tend to take the latter view, and am a little saddened when people
> make comments to the effect that we should spend less time with other
> blind people in order to achieve our goal of integration, as if the
> two objectives are mutually exclusive. Sometimes I think people (blind
> and sighted alike) have the implicit assumption that relationships
> with sighted people are somehow superior to relationships we have with
> the blind, and that it's to our advantage to, for example, avoid
> spending all our time at NFB meetings, or try not to work in the
> blindness field on principle, or to only date sighted people. Of
> course, people differ in the extremity of these views. But I do think
> it's entirely possible and healthy to juggle a strong "blind identity"
> with the other identities and connections we have in the world,
> without taking away from either one.

> I'm interested to hear your views about this, but I'd like to close
> with a concrete example. When I was in high school and college, most
> of my close friends were blind. I often felt, as many of you have
> described, that I could only sustain casual relationships with sighted
> people, but that I could only feel the deep, reciprocal connections I
> had with other blind people. When I started graduate school, after
> receiving blindness training at LCB and being a member and leader in
> NABS for five years, I finally began to perceive that my fellow
> students, who were all sighted, didn't care much about my blindness
> and were for the most part able to treat me like anyone else. I have
> been dating a sighted guy for the past year, which is something I
> never thought would happen, and with him I feel the same kind of
> reciprocal intimacy that I thought I could only have with other blind
> people. My point in disclosing all that is that I honestly don't think
> I would have reached this level of confidence and belonging in my
> sighted community if I hadn't had the strong, affirming relationships
> that I had for so many years with my blind friends. Around other blind
> people I felt normal and capable, and was able to become a
> reciprocating partner and a leader. I had to be able to do those
> things and practice them over time before I could go into the
> uncertainty of a new sighted community with the right social skills
> and confidence to integrate and build new connections, including
> finding my boyfriend. It's just something to think about.

> Arielle

> On 3/27/10, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This will be the fourth time that I've clarified what I said, but what I
>> said keeps getting distorted, so I'll try one more time.

>> Jedi said,
>> two men would insist that I perceive myself differently because I can give
>> birth.

>> I've read every message on this subject, and I didn't read one man, let
>> alone two, say anything like that.

>> How on earth could anyone know how you perceive yourself? I certainly don't,
>> and I have never said that I did.  For the record, I have no idea how Jedi
>> perceives herself.  I only know that she says that she doesn't give much
>> thought to her ability to give birth, and I don't question that at all.  But
>> that is just not the issue that is being discussed.  How you perceive
>> yourself has nothing to do with this.  Identity is much more than just how
>> you perceive yourself.  Your ability to perceive, how you perceive, what you
>> perceive, these are all already influenced by your identity.  So whether or
>> not you think about a particular feature of yourself does not alone
>> determine whether it is or is not a part of your identity.

>> I truly regret bringing up the ability to give birth.  There is way too much
>> bagage that comes with a discussion of that topic, and I clearly offended
>> some people, which I had no intention of doing.  The fact that I'm a man
>> makes my bringing it up all the more problematic for some.  I tried to
>> choose my words carefully, including the clarification that I was in no way
>> suggesting that women are defined by this ability, but even this wasn't
>> enough to avoid the bagage, which is fine, I get that.  It was a bad
>> example, but the disappointing thing is that so much energy has been focused
>> on this one example that it has over-shadowed what could have been a deeper
>> discussion of blindness and identity.  That is unfortunate and makes me
>> really wish I had never mentioned it.

>> No hard feelings I hope.

>> Marc



>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]On
>> Behalf Of Jedi
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 4:46 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blindness and Identity


>> Briley,

>> I'm glad you said something because it took me a while to understand
>> why I replied so snarkily last time. I realized that I felt incensed
>> that two men would insist that I perceive myself differently because I
>> can give birth. To me, it was as bad as if some sighted person got on
>> list and told us all that our lack of eyesight shapes how we see
>> ourselves. Some would say yes, and others would say no. For those who
>> would say no, I think we'd feel pretty frustrated because it would be
>> almost like that sighted person was telling us that because they saw us
>> differently because we're blind, so should we regardless if we do or
>> not. What frustrated me most is that I twice said that, in my
>> experience of not being a mother, I didn't think much about my ability
>> to have children and yet I felt argued with as though someone who saw
>> themselves as having more authority on the topic, a man, had the final
>> authority on how I felt about myself as a woman. It was so frustrating.
>> And you're quite right that men probably don't think about their
>> ability to be part of the procreation process any more or less than we
>> do. Same goes for sighted people. I've heard sighted people say that
>> they don't realize how much they take for granted, and that's quite
>> true. They mean to say that they feel sorry for us, but the fact is
>> that they really have no idea how much privilege they have in society
>> just as many in a given "superior" (in quotes) class don't. Thanks
>> again for your comments.

>> Respectfully,
>> Jedi


>> Original message:
>>> Jedi,

>>> I thought you handled the issue of giving birth quite capably. I am not
>>> a mother yet, so no, I don't think about my ability to pop out kids as
>>> a big part of who I am... or really ponder it as a part of identity at
>>> all. Do you men see your ability to participate in making children as a
>>> part of your identity? Probably not. So, it is semi chauvinist of you
>>> to assume we are attached to our uterus as a part of us that gives us
>>> self worth.

>>> Briley



>>> On Mar 27, 2010, at 3:55 AM, Jedi wrote:

>>>> Well, if we want to get down to brass tacks, we can all say that we
>>>> will never know just how our being is affects our perceptions, but the
>>>> bottom line still lies at the fact that our perception of our beingness
>>>> is largely determine by what our culture teaches us about it, and
>>>> identity is the presentation of how we respond to those teachings in
>>>> our interactions with ourselves and others.

>>>> I think it's interesting that two men have been interested in whether
>>>> or not I see myself differently because I can give birth yet no women
>>>> have weighed in on the subject. I also think they're more interesting
>>>> in my birthing abilities than I am. Well gentlemen, you're welcome to
>>>> those abilities so long as you're willing to take the identity that
>>>> comes with them. *tongue in cheek*

>>>> Respectfully,
>>>> Jedi



>>>> Original message:
>>>>> The point is that without ever having had the experience of being a man,
>> you
>>>>> cannot say for sure that your being a woman does or does not have an
>> impact
>>>>> on how you see yourself or experience the world. I suspect it does, but
>>>>> without any basis for comparison, you can't say. Just as my being blind
>> from
>>>>> birth prohibits me from determining whether or not or to what degree my
>>>>> blindness affects how I view myself and experience the world. My gut
>> feeling
>>>>> is that my blindness has a fairly profound affect on at least a
>> significant
>>>>> subset of the things I experience and the way in which I experience
>> them.

>>>>> Blindness is absolutely part of my identity, as is my height, skin color
>> and
>>>>> love of the Chicago Cubs. Your identity is just an exhaustive list of
>> all of
>>>>> the characteristics and attributes which make a particular person the
>>>>> particular person that they are.

>>>>> To what degree I identify myself as blind or identify with the greater
>>>>> community of blind people is a completely separate question from that of
>>>>> whether or not blindness is part of my identity.

>>>>> I don't think blindness, strictly defined, is a social construct, while
>> I
>>>>> think the concept of disability is. I'm sure that to articulate my
>> reasons
>>>>> for feeling this way would require more time than I am willing to put
>> into
>>>>> it now, but that is my gut feeling.

>>>>> Thought I'd throw my two cents into this interesting discussion.

>>>>> All the best,

>>>>> Sean


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> --
> Arielle Silverman
> President, National Association of Blind Students
> Phone:  602-502-2255
> Email:
> nabs.president at gmail.com
> Website:
> www.nabslink.org

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