[nabs-l] Geometry Re: Coping withGraphs andOther VisualRepresentations ofData

Nicole B. Torcolini at Home ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Sun Nov 21 20:29:38 UTC 2010 

I actually enjoy making tactile designs for fun. It is very interesting what 
designs you can make with a compass and then connecting the points where the 
circles cross. Also, drawing two different round robbins on the same circle 
with one point in common on the edge and then connecting the points to only 
the other points in each set can have interesting results. I once did this 
with a 3 and a 5. The result was a starr with a triangle behind it, the star 
and the triangle sharing the top point.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jorge Paez" <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Coping withGraphs andOther VisualRepresentations 
ofData


> Ah.
> Yes, that's exactly what I have.
> The only difference is that I only have the board, plastic paper, and the 
> pencil and wheel.
>
> Thanks Nicole.
>
> Jorge
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 21, 2010, at 2:57 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote:
>
>> I think that is what it might be called, but I am not sure. It is a 
>> wooden board that has a rubber mat on top of it. It has holes along each 
>> side so that you can put the ruler that comes with it in the holes and 
>> keep it from sliding around when you are trying to draw a straight line. 
>> My complete kit is actually a hoj poj of actual drawing kits and odds and 
>> ends that I have picked up over the years. The original kit consisted of 
>> the board, it's ruler, a right angle, one of those fabric wheels, and a 
>> kind of pencil looking thing for punching holes with one end bigger than 
>> the other. Usually, if I am trying to draw a line on a graph, I will use 
>> the small end of the pencil thing to punch holes through to the back of 
>> the paper. I will then flip the paper over and connect the dots (no pun 
>> intended) with the fabric wheel, using the ruler to make a straight line. 
>> The one thing about which one has to be careful is pressing too hard and 
>> cutting the paper. On the flip side of that, it does work well if you 
>> need to cut a straight line, and, like me, you are one of those people 
>> who could not cut a straight line with scissors to save your life. 
>> Anyway, the next part of the kit that I acquired was two separate parts. 
>> I received one of those tools that is supposed to pull up a dot when you 
>> press it into the paper and then pull up. It came with a rubber mat. 
>> However, it did not work very well, and I have since set it aside, but I 
>> still use the mat. I also received three more drawing tools, which were a 
>> double ended drawing wheel with a small end and an end that made two 
>> parallel lines, a double ended wheel that had a small end and an end with 
>> a wheel with larger spokes that were more spaced out, and another double 
>> ended pencil thing, which had a ball like point at one end and a more 
>> pointed part on the other end. Besides that, I have collected a number of 
>> other things. I have a rubber cord like thing that can be curved into 
>> different shapes; it is good for drawing parabolas. I have a piece of 
>> textured cardboard that I sometimes use instead of a drawing screen. I 
>> have a circle that I cut. Oh, and, I almost forgot, I also have a 
>> compass, but I don't like it much. You have to make the circle by 
>> punching individual holes. I would be interested to know if anyone has 
>> found one that works better. I also have two rulers that are attached 
>> together that you can separate or push together; they work well for 
>> drawing parallel lines. I also have fun tack for holding down the right 
>> angle or other things that I am trying to trace and sticky note tape. The 
>> board also came with some plastic paper that, when you drew on it with a 
>> pen or one of the pencil things, it raised up on the top instead of the 
>> other side, so you did not have to draw backwards. When I ran out of 
>> this, I found that the plastic from the printer paper packages worked 
>> fine as well. I might have more tools, but, as I am home for Thanksgiving 
>> and my drawing kit is back in my dorm room, I do not know what they are 
>> at the moment.
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jorge Paez" <jorgeapaez at mac.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 9:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Coping with Graphs andOther VisualRepresentations 
>> ofData
>>
>>
>>> Nicole:
>>> By tactile kit, do you mean the DRAFTSMAN DRAWING BOARD?
>>> If not, what do you use and how much does it cost?
>>> I might be interested in getting one for home, because I'm going to be 
>>> studying a lot of graphs this year.
>>>
>>> Jorge
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 21, 2010, at 12:34 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home wrote:
>>>
>>>> For me, as long as the graph does not have too much information on it, 
>>>> the DRC usually transcribes it into Braille. As far as drawing graphs, 
>>>> I use a few different methods. If it is not too complex, I use my 
>>>> tactile drawing kit, which can be purchased from several different 
>>>> places, including the Perkins Institute or APH. Sometimes, if there is 
>>>> a lot of data, I will use Excel. However, I only use Excel if I have a 
>>>> good understanding of what the graph looks like, as that is usually the 
>>>> point of drawing the graph. I used to have the AGC, but I don't have it 
>>>> anymore. With that, you can get a sound representation of your graph, 
>>>> which you cannot get with Excel.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Jacobson" 
>>>> <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 8:14 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Coping with Graphs and Other 
>>>> VisualRepresentations ofData
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Tina,
>>>>>
>>>>> There are simply no absolute answers to this question, and the road 
>>>>> you choose will very much depend upon your own strengths and skills. 
>>>>> I don't know
>>>>> what sort of background you already have and therefore apologize if I 
>>>>> assume too much or too little.  My comments are from the perspective 
>>>>> of a math
>>>>> major sometime ago and as a computer programmer/analyst so not all 
>>>>> will apply.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, the idea of getting your hands on a way to draw graphs is a 
>>>>> good one.  Whatever you end up doing, you will be more successful if 
>>>>> you truly
>>>>> understand what the various types of graphs show.  This is true even 
>>>>> if you don't end up creating tactile versions.  It will help you know 
>>>>> what questions to
>>>>> ask, and even to understand how else you might get the information 
>>>>> conveyed.
>>>>>
>>>>> For the purposes of a course, I would tend to concentrate on learning 
>>>>> to understand graphs and work with a reader who is good at 
>>>>> interpreting them. The
>>>>> purpose of a course is to learn about a specific skill, the 
>>>>> development of an efficient way to alternatively perform that skill 
>>>>> doesn't have to be a part of
>>>>> learning.  When you are on the job, things will be more stable.  You 
>>>>> would be dealing with statistics in a more or less stable way and you 
>>>>> will most likely
>>>>> know in advance what it is you will be looking for.  In other words, 
>>>>> you will have a chance to prepart alternatives for analyzing the data.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are various tools that can reproduct graphs in a tactile format 
>>>>> such as the Tiger braille printer.  There is also a company called 
>>>>> Reprotronics which I
>>>>> think still has a system that will take a printed piece of paper and 
>>>>> raise darker areas on swell paper.  The paper is expensive but it can 
>>>>> work.
>>>>> Unfortunately, any system that simply creates a tactile version of 
>>>>> something in print generally suffers from trying to show too much 
>>>>> information making the
>>>>> results not real useful.  Generally, some sort of filtering or 
>>>>> formatting has to be done by someone to make sense out of such a 
>>>>> process, and this just may
>>>>> not be practical for a class.  It is something that could be useful if 
>>>>> one were on a job where graphs were very important.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some work has been done to produce graphs in an audio fashion.  This 
>>>>> can also have some value but I don't know how successfully it has been 
>>>>> used to
>>>>> interpret data from another source.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know if anything here will help, but I hope it is somewhat 
>>>>> useful. I am sure I am omitting possibilities as well and I hope 
>>>>> others will chime in.  My
>>>>> point here is really that there are options out there if you need to 
>>>>> deal with graphs a lot, but trying to get a handle on such options 
>>>>> during a relatively short
>>>>> course may not work.  The important thing is to try to understand 
>>>>> graphs and what they are showing within the context of your course.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve Jacobson
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 20 Nov 2010 09:21:24 -0600, Greg Aikens wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Tina,
>>>>>> I'm sorry if I misunderstood your original question.  I was thinking 
>>>>>> that being able to draw the graphs would give you access to a lot of 
>>>>>> the visual
>>>>> information and what the data represents.  With a well made tactile 
>>>>> diagram made by a professional transcriber and some training on how to 
>>>>> read them you
>>>>> would be able to feel a bar graph and know that one column represents 
>>>>> 50 and another represents 35.  With the methods I suggested you 
>>>>> definitely still
>>>>> need someone to tell you exactly what values the diagrams represent.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My only suggestion for this is to get your reader to read this 
>>>>>> information to you and then you could put it in your notes.  For bar 
>>>>>> graphs you could write
>>>>> something like:
>>>>>> Bar 1: Dogs 35
>>>>>> Bar 2: cats 40
>>>>>> Bar 3: birds 15
>>>>>
>>>>>> The same would work for pie charts and scattergrams.  For 
>>>>>> scattergrams I still recommend having someone draw you the diagram to 
>>>>>> accompany this list
>>>>> of info because it is a very visual way to analyze data.  It can be 
>>>>> difficult to get an idea of the trend with just a list of points.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope this was more helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>> On Nov 19, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Tina Hansen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> These are all good for drawing graphs. Now, how about the question 
>>>>>>> of understanding data that graphs and other visual material is meant 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>> represent? Does anyone have ideas for how to convey the data that is 
>>>>> represented in either a table, bar chart, pie chart, scattergram, or 
>>>>> whatever? What
>>>>> tools, tips, tricks or techniques have you used to gain access to this 
>>>>> kind of information? Thanks.
>>>>>>>
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