[nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

Sat Apr 30 15:27:29 UTC 2011

Kirt:

You hit the nail on the head.  We don't have to devalue sight in order to
think ourselves OK or to believe that blindness can in most cases be reduced
to the level of an inconvenience or nuisance.  If for no other reason than
that the majority is sighted, it would be easier for us were we somehow to
magically regain our sight without complications or inconvenience.  I submit
that since this is unlikely to occur for most of us for quite some time, if
ever, the discussion is academic and, as I've said, is in the nature of
trying to figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.  I
think it's quite possible to believe that sight would be of assistance while
at the same time believing as we do that blindness isn't a show-stopper.
The key is to realize that blindness doesn't hinder us from doing the things
that most believe matter in life nor does it hinder us from competing on
equal terms with the sighted on average given training and opportunity.  One
doesn't need to poo-poo the beauty of a sunset to realize that one can get
along without sunsets.  For an analogous situation, consider the person
(blind or sighted) who is tone-deaf or, like U.S. Grant was reputed to have
said, thinks there are only two songs in the world:  "One is Yankee Doodle;
the other isn't!".  No one would say Gen. Grant didn't succeed at his chosen
profession.  Yet few would deny that music is a joy.

As to the eye-contact thing, it's foolish to say it doesn't matter.
Everyone from President Maurer on down has complained about people speaking
to our sighted companions rather than to us.  To us it is stupid and smacks
of considering us objects or, at best, little children.  While there's
certainly a good deal to be said for the proposition that people think
blindness equals witlessness, I also think that a good part of our problem
is that we don't make eye contact and people can't figure out how to make
eye contact with us or how to socially interact with us without eye contact.
In essence, it's the problem of the sighted not being inventive, not of our
lack of the ability to make eye contact.  But in the real world, how and why
it happens doesn't matter.  We have to learn to do without it and the fact
is that it can be done.  That doesn't make us inferior; it just means that
we don't have a commonly-available tool in our social arsenal.  Everyone has
certain gaps in skills.  Yet when very few have one lack -- eyesight -- and
the rest of the world presumes everyone has it, we who have the lack must
make adjustments.  That doesn't make us not OK nor is this saying that
blindness isn't a characteristic like any other.

I'll close this tome by observing that if we had sight, we wouldn't have to
worry about the cost of braille displays or inaccessible websites.

Now, since we're all blind, I submit that we've about typed this topic to
death!

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kirt Manwaring
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 9:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..

Chris,
  Eye contact really *is* that important.  I think a good case can be
made that people communicate more by body language than by speaking-
although it's certainly debatable.
  Nicole...I think sighted people go by muscle memory as much as we do
after they know where things are.  Most really efficint typists (or is
it keyboarders?) don't look at the keys.  Most talented athletes
depend on muscle memory.  Think free throw shots, golf swings, hitting
a baseball where you want it to go, throwing someone in judo or pining
in wrestling...that's all muscle memory.  And sighted people use it
all the time in daily life...I really don't think we have the edge
there but does it really matter?
  Mike...I agree with you.  Blindness to me is a disease- not a
debilitating disease, a disease that can become a minor inconvenience
once I get the right training, but a disease nonetheless.  Byut that
doesn't mean it hasn't contributed to a lot of good in the world and
increased diversity.  I don't think anyone here would seriously argue
that severe depression isn't a disease.  But, were it not for
depression, many great people would never have achieved their
greatness-Abraham Lincoln comes to mind here.  I think most of us here
would call obsessive-compulsive disorder a disease, yet it's pushed a
lot of people to do incredible things.  I think we'd all agree that
autism is a disease...but it's contributed to the development of many
brilliant minds.  (I cringe to use the rain man example...but here we
go, it's been used)  I can think of a few situations where ADHD could
be pretty advantageous.  (I like to do improv comedy sometimes, and
man having ADHD would help a lot)  But most people agree ADHD is a
disease.
  See what I'm driving at?  Just because something is a disease
doesn't mean it's all bad.  Personally, if I could take a magic pill
to gain sight, and if the re-training process wouldn't be too
complicated (scientific evidence is conflicted here so I don't know if
that's practical), I totally would take it!  Having sight would be a
great advantage- at least an advantage worth having if the
cost/benifit ratio was reasonable.  Blindness is the lack of sight.  I
don't know about you, but I'd prefer to have an ability instead of
lack it.  I think sometimes we downplay the fact that blindness is a
disability and try and undermine the usefulness of sight...but I tell
you what, sight would be dang useful.  If I could get it, and learn to
use it without too much cost in time or money...why the heck not?
  Warmest regards,
Kirt

On 4/29/11, Mike Freeman <k7uij at panix.com> wrote:
> Are these two views really mutually exclusive?
>
> Mike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Briley Pollard
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 7:14 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] If the World Went Sighted..
>
> Hello all,
>
> This is an interesting discussion, so I thought I'd pop in for a minute.
>
> This question goes, at the root of it, to how you view disability. If you
> view it as an aspect that creates diversity, then erasing it would be like
> erasing races or different languages. If you view disability as a disease,
> then logically the first response would be to want to cure it.
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> Briley
> On Apr 27, 2011, at 7:55 AM, Jorge Paez wrote:
>
>> Arielle:
>> I think blindness does play a roll--in that it is just one of many things
> that make up an individual,
>> and in a world where genetics would be preprogramed,
>> it just be too perfect.
>> It'd just bee too flawless--too artificial.
>> I'm sure some people would want it--but a world in which blindness and
> other disabilities are completely eradicated would just be too artificial,
>> almost like we literally managed to create our own world in a way.
>>
>> Worse, it would make it a whole lot worse for any blind who were born
> cause then everyone would consider them a scientific failure so to speak.
>> Of course,
>> I'm hypothetically talking about a very cold  world in which science
would
> create people which I hope would never happen but its a good talking
point
> anyway.
>>
>> Jorge
>>
>>
>> On Apr 27, 2011, at 12:08 AM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We recently had a discussion about how we would react if some of our
>>> blind friends could become sighted, and we asked whether it would be
>>> reasonable for a sighted person to want to go blind. This made me
>>> think of an interesting, although a bit painful, question:
>>> Would the world be better off, worse off, or about the same if
>>> blindness were completely eradicated, through genetic engineering
>>> and/or mandatory treatment of all causes of blindness?
>>> The question may sound silly, but for many vision researchers,
>>> eradication of blindness is a real goal. But does the presence of
>>> blind people in our society have any benefit to the society or the
>>> world as a whole?
>>>
>>> Certainly there are costs of having a small group of people in society
>>> who read and travel using different techniques than the rest. These
>>> specialized techniques have to be taught, technology has to be adapted
>>> to their use and negative public attitudes prevent this minority of
>>> people who do things differently from having full access to societal
>>> goods and opportunities. So would it be cheaper and less
>>> resource-demanding if everybody could use the same visual techniques
>>> to accomplish life tasks?
>>> On the other hand, you could perhaps argue that having people who use
>>> different senses to do things in society is advantageous. Technology
>>> is forced to innovate to become usable by those who don't have vision
>>> as well as those who do. And conceivably, if a darkness plague struck
>>> the planet, it would be better for the species if some of its members
>>> could fully function without light.
>>>
>>> What do you think? Should we as a society make an effort to get rid of
>>> blindness? Or does blindness serve any kind of social function?
>>> There obviously isn't a right answer here, but it's something that,
>>> for better or for worse, could become relevant to us someday.
>>>
>>> Arielle
>>>
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