[nabs-l] [Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview, Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed. June 22, 8:00 pm EDT

Tue Jun 28 03:29:37 UTC 2011

Joseph,
  Even while reading braille at 300 words per minute (which is kind of
rare but not un heard of), sighted people can still glance at the page
and find what they want faster than we can.  And even for those of us
who have the time to train our palms to be as sensitive as our
fingertips (I'd wager not many of us do-there's a life to live, even
as a college student), I'd give the edge in efficiency to a sighted
person who can quickly glance at the information as opposed to feeling
for it with our fingers.  Don't get me wrong; I love braille.  One of
the reasons I'm really considering going to a center is so I can
become one of those lightning-fast braille readers.  But even then,
being able to glance at the page without having to feel it is faster,
I would think.
  There is, I think, a pertanent point to be made here.  When you have
to read through something without skimming, I actually think those of
us who speed jaws up to a billion words per minute and can comprehend
what we listen to have an advantage over our sighted peers.  I know
there have been plenty of times I've whipped out my headphones and
gone through in a half an hour to 45 minutes reading the same material
that takes most people an hour to an hour and a half.  But, that said,
lots of things do take longer for us.  I *needed* those time
extentions on my AP tests and ACT tests because those dang graphs and
maps were hard enough to feel with my fingertips, let alone my palms!
And, since I'm not one of those blazing fast braille readers, I had to
make due with my 145 to 150 words per minute-plus I had to go back and
look at my essay for any braille translation errors/extra braille keys
pushed in the speed of the moment.  That's something sighted people,
writing their essays by hand, don't have to worry about...and it takes
longer!  It just does.
  And yeah, lots of the students I know who are taking classes don't
work.  Take my roommates for example-a pretty much random sample of
boys attending Brigham Young University who all kind of got thrown
together.  Me and two of my roommates had jobs, three did not.  I had
to quit my job because I wanted a life outside of class, one of my
roommates told me many times he would probably have quit, or not even
taken the job in the first place, were it not a family friend that
hired him.  So out of the six of us, I was one of the 50 percent that
tried my hand at working a job my freshman year.  I'm pretty sure I
won't try again-making friends and living life is as important to me
as devoting myself to my education.  If I were to get a job, it's no
exhageration to say I'd have only a little bit of a chance to get
involved on campus and make friends-I'm not willing to give that up
unless I absolutely have to.
  Anyways, we've talked circles around each other for too long, I
think.  I respect your points and best of luck, my friend.
  Best,
Kirt

On 6/27/11, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> Hi, Kurt,
>
> 'Thought I had missed where Joseph edified the
> list, as to which jobs he himself has had, while
> going to school. At 03:04 PM 6/27/2011, bookwormahb at earthlink.net wrote:
>>Joeseph, Ah, sighted people have so called
>>handouts too like food stamps and if you are
>>poor enough, Medicaid. This philosophy doesn't
>>match reality. The reality is it takes longer to
>>study college material, particularly visual
>>subjects since we got to have descriptions or a
>>reader make tactile diagrams. The reality is
>>that many colleges such as the community college
>>do not have updated screen reading software
>>making it an unlevel playing field. The reality
>>is that if you are not writing that short essay
>>yourself, it takes longer, I mean longer, to
>>dictate it to a scribe. Oh then that scribe has
>>to read it back to you with punctuation to
>>ensure you have it as you want it, where as a
>>sighted person can read it silently. Maybe you
>>took all your tests electronically, and used
>>jaws fast, but not all of us have that resource.
>>Bottom line it takes longer to study and as Kirt
>>said working while in school is Not practical
>>for many reasons. You never said what part time
>>jobs we could do anyway. You yourself haven't
>>had many interviews even with a college diploma.
>>Remember most college students are servers or
>>are selling something like tickets.  When I took
>>interpersonal communication we did introductions
>>and like a fourth of the class was waiting
>>tables part time at restaurants; a few were
>>pizza delivery drivers. Now a blind person can't
>>perform the duties of those jobs.  I said before
>>you can work part time if you find the right
>>employer; you could work as a tutor, babysitter,
>>dog walker, or maybe even as a
>>receptionist.  But its hard to find an open
>>minded employer without that college education
>>and I contend that its harder to find little odd
>>jobs to work through school. So seems to me you
>>really are not practicing what your preaching.
>>Show me some blind students who work part time
>>and how they do it.  Come on, is an employer
>>really going to say, buy jaws when the employee
>>is only working 20 hours a week and won't be
>>there for the long term?  Do you really think
>>that employer will invest $1000 for that part
>>time receptionist or customer service
>>representative?  That money goes toward a screen
>>reader. I do hope you find work soon though so
>>you won't have to deal with the government.
>>Ashley -----Original Message----- From: T.
>>Joseph Carter Sent: Monday, June 27, 2011 4:26
>>AM To: National Association of Blind Students
>>mailing list Subject: Re: [nabs-l]
>>[Nfbnet-members-list] Threw Our Eyes interview,
>>Ride into History, Race for Independence, Wed.
>>June 22, 8:00 pm EDT Actually, the system
>>supposedly provides an income to people who are
>>incapable of working.  Thatâ€™s what permanently
>>disabled means.  You get government money
>>because you meet the definition of being unable
>>to engage in substantially gainful activity
>>(i.e., a job). The only way we achieve equality
>>is when a person is not thought to be
>>unemployable just because they are blind.  Now,
>>I know how far we are from that day.  There are
>>a good number of us who canâ€™t seem to find
>>employment largely because of that one simple
>>fact. All Iâ€™m saying is that we shouldnâ€™t
>>delude ourselves and start thinking the system
>>is anything other than what it is: A handout to
>>the disabled, because in the eyes of the
>>government weâ€™re pitiful and helpless, unable
>>to work for a living.  If stripping away the
>>mask makes people angry, it SHOULD make them
>>angry. The social security system to us
>>represents the scraps we are given to placate
>>us.  To keep us content that we still have a
>>living, even though we do not have access to the
>>skills and opportunities that would allow us to
>>succeed, excel, and compete for the same goals
>>that our non-disabled peers do. Absolutely we
>>should use it when we can as a stepping stone to
>>something greater, but so many of us fall into
>>the trap of believing that it is what we
>>deserve.  No, thereâ€™s no dignity in that kind
>>of life, and if we deserve anything at all it is
>>dignity.  So therefore I conclude that we
>>deserve far better.  And for myself at least, I
>>intend to find better. Joseph On Sun, Jun 26,
>>2011 at 07:22:22PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>wrote: >Joseph, >  I think you make very good
>>points.  As I understand it, the system >is
>>designed to give financial support to those who,
>>because of >disability, have a difficult time
>>working.  The only reason I'm on SSI >is because
>>doing my school work, on average, takes a
>>substantially >longer time than it would if I
>>were sighted because the alternative >techniques
>>I use often are slower than using
>>sight.  (readers, test >scribes, needing to feel
>>all the details on braille graphs vs.
>>being >able to look at it all at once and glance
>>at what I need later, etc.) >School is preparing
>>me to work a regular job-since my
>>alternative >techniques require lots of time
>>work isn't really practical for me >while I go
>>through school.  I suspect that's why you
>>applied for SSI >in the first place.  The system
>>is not designed to take people who
>>are >perfectly capable of working and make them
>>in to couch potatoes-I >think that's an
>>unfortunate side effect of the whole
>>deal.  Rest >assured, once I get a full-time
>>job, I'll cut the chord with
>>SSI. >Permanently. >  I can only speak for me,
>>and how I see the system.  I don't think it >was
>>ever intended to be a handout or something to
>>keep able people >from working.  It's
>>unfortunate many people abuse the system and,
>>I'll >admit, it makes me angry!  But do you have
>>a better idea to make sure >we're able to get
>>the education we need to work?  And anyway (I'm
>>not >talking about you, I don't know your
>>situation), if someone's able to >work a
>>full-time job, what business do they have
>>getting SSI?  Best, >Kirt > >On 6/26/11, T.
>>Joseph Carter <carter.tjoseph at gmail.com>
>>wrote: >> Wait, are you saying the system is
>>designed for us to sit on our >> collective
>>duffs and mooch off of others while we piddle
>>around and >> do nothing?  Does that seem like
>>an appropriate system to you? >> >> You know how
>>most people get through school?  They work.  Why
>>should >> we be different?  Yes, I know we ARE,
>>but why should we accept that? >> We cannot work
>>through school because the very act of going
>>through >> school takes us
>>longer.  Why?  Because we havenâ€™t got the
>>skills to >> keep up.  Why?  Because the same
>>system that is giving us our little >> handout
>>(for which Iâ€™m told we should be grateful) has
>>actively >> interfered in our efforts to be and
>>do better than that. >> >> As for suing, how,
>>whom, and why?  My benefits were never
>>actually >> stopped, only threatened.  Just
>>enough to keep me jumping for my >> government
>>slavemasters.  I was entitled to, had, and won
>>each of my >> appeals, so the system worked as
>>designed. >> >> Iâ€™m just no longer willing to
>>be a slave. >> >> Joseph >> >> >> On Sat, Jun
>>25, 2011 at 01:18:23PM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>wrote: >>>Joseph, >>>  You make great points,
>>and I really do feel for
>>you.  That's >>>aweful...like, maybe get a
>>social security lawyer kind of aweful. >>>  All
>>I'm saying is, the way the system is intended to
>>work (and the >>>way it works for a lot of us),
>>SSI is necessary income.  I'm using it >>>so I
>>don't starve through school; the minute I get
>>out and find a >>>full-time job, I'm saying
>>goodbye to my SSI for good.  That's how
>>it >>>should be-use it to get yourself able to
>>work then cut the cord.  I >>>know lots of
>>people abuse it, I know it's poorly managed, and
>>I know >>>you're getting screwed by the
>>system.  But the way I see it, it's >>>designed
>>to be a boost up to equality, not a handout.  Of
>>course, >>>everyone doesn't use it that
>>way. >>>  In any case, best of luck.  I hope
>>things work out for you.  For >>>what it's
>>worth, I'm sorry you're going through all this
>>crap. >>>  Best wishes, >>>Kirt >>> >>>On
>>6/25/11, T. Joseph Carter
>><carter.tjoseph at gmail.com> wrote: >>>>
>>Kirt, >>>> >>>> Social Security and SSI are
>>still a handout, and they come with >>>> strings
>>attached that make getting off of them pretty
>>difficult. >>>> Especially if you live in
>>subsidized housing, collect food stamps, >>>>
>>receive utility subsidies, etc.  If you do and
>>you go and find >>>> yourself a job that
>>doesnâ€™t pay enough, you will have a sudden
>>net >>>> reduction in your income that already
>>doesnâ€™t pay the bills. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™ve
>>decided Iâ€™m getting off this roller coaster
>>even if it makes me >>>> homeless in the
>>process, because Iâ€™m sick and tired of living
>>in fear >>>> that they might take away my
>>benefits!  Iâ€™ve gotten three letters to >>>>
>>that effect in the past two years, in the midst
>>of cancer treatment >>>> for two of them, all
>>with the customary 30 day appeal Iâ€™d better
>>take >>>> advantage of if I want to be able to
>>survive another month! >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m tired of
>>getting paid to NOT work.  Iâ€™m tired of living
>>in places >>>> where the government intrudes
>>upon my home three times a year to make >>>>
>>sure my landlord isnâ€™t complete pond scum (but
>>allowing them to be >>>> one level removed from
>>pond scum!)  Iâ€™m tired of being told that if
>>I >>>> start working, my rent will suddenly be
>>120% of what anybody in their >>>> right might
>>would ever pay for this dump.  And Iâ€™m tired
>>of being >>>> told that theyâ€™re sorry, but I
>>just donâ€™t qualify for the work >>>>
>>incentives, or the better medical coverage, or
>>the exemptions that >>>> might possibly allow me
>>to save a few hundred dollars with which to >>>>
>>actually get out of here! >>>> >>>> Your
>>not-a-handout Social Security and SSI have made
>>slaves of far >>>> too many of us.  Perfectly
>>able to work, but afraid to try for fear >>>>
>>that weâ€™ll lose what little weâ€™ve got.  We
>>are trapped in a prison of >>>> learned
>>helplessness, and the only way out is to see
>>these things—all >>>> of them—for what theyhey
>>are: Government handouts designed to keep
>>us >>>> docile, afraid, and living in
>>poverty. >>>> >>>> Iâ€™m done playing that
>>game. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat,
>>Jun 25, 2011 at 09:13:21AM -0600, Kirt Manwaring
>>wrote: >>>>>Carley, >>>>>  First off, I've done
>>a bit of really light research and I was
>>way >>>>>liberal about what I thought the cost
>>of this would be.  It's probably >>>>>going to
>>be in the neighborhood of $100 million, so I was
>>way off. >>>>>That'll teach me not to make
>>outlandish statements with no proof. >>>>>  But
>>still, the point I made in my last message
>>stands.  Of course I >>>>>don't want the
>>government to write out a check for all of us-I
>>was >>>>>trying to point out that trying to make
>>all the cash out there
>>more >>>>>"blind-friendly" is not
>>necessary.  Just like we don't need
>>government >>>>>handouts (I'm not counting SSI
>>as a government handout because
>>that's >>>>>money lots of us genuinely need), we
>>don't need the government >>>>>spending $100
>>million redesigning currency we can already use
>>with >>>>>pretty much no problem.  Honestly, if
>>you think you can't afford an >>>>>iBill,
>>there's probably something you're buying with
>>your $680 a month >>>>>that you really don't
>>need. >>>>>  Just a thought, >>>>>Kirt >>>> >>>>
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