[nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility

Tue Jan 24 15:58:44 UTC 2012

Hi,
Has anyone used blackboard for classes? I have to post questions in the 
discussion portion of the site and am not sure how to do that with using 
jaws. I no when surching for other things like powerpoints posted by 
profesors I have little trouble, but when posting discussion or replying to 
a post I have difficulity. If anyone can help that would be great. Thanks a 
bunch
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility


> Yes, Access in Office 2003 was accessible. As a matter of fact, I used it 
> to do a project that was geared toward blind users.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Katie Wang" <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 23, 2012 10:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>
>
>> Hi, Ashley and all,
>>
>> While I agree that having to re-learn where all the features are in MS
>> Office 2010can be pretty annoying for both sighted and blind users
>> alike, I have to  say that, having transitioned from MS Office 2003 to
>> 2010 recently, I don't believe that the newer version is less
>> accessible. As someone suggested earlier in this thread, the Virtual
>> Menu feature of JAWS 12 or later makes the ribbons behave in a manner
>> that is pretty similar to traditional menus, thereby eliminating a lot
>> of the confusion Ashley was referring to. Although I did run into a
>> few instances where I'm not sure how to perform a certain task, it was
>> easily resolved by a quick Google search, and I believe this is simply
>> part of the process of learning to use a new program.
>>
>> As a graduate student who relies heavily on the MS Office suite and
>> someone who is not always eager to learn the most recent technology,
>> I'm by no means discounting anyone's frustration. However, I do think
>> that, since Windows XP and MS Office 2003 have been around for a long
>> time, (they were here when I was first introduced to JAWS), it is easy
>> for us to claim that something new is not user-friendly simply because
>> we are not used to how it works yet. Some of you may remember me
>> posting about alternative email clients in Windows 7 a while ago
>> because I was confused by Outlook 2010 and missed the simplicity of
>> Outlook Express a lot. I'm pleased to report that I have since figured
>> out the basics of Outlook 2010 and found that the email program
>> actually works pretty well (in fact, it has some features I do
>> appreciate that were not available in Outlook Express). In short, I
>> would encourage everyone to be patient when approaching a new
>> program-- We all need to upgrade to the latest version of Office
>> sooner or later to keep up with mainstream users, and you might be
>> surprised by the benefits of a new program once you allow yourself
>> time to play around with it.
>>
>> Katie
>>
>> PS: As far as I know, MS Office Access is not accessible, but I don't
>> believe it has ever been accessible in the past so this is not really
>> a 2010 issue. I have never really used Access for anything though so
>> don't have much to say about it.
>>
>> On 1/23/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> A quick tip: Use TAB instead of the arrow keys when in the ribbons.
>>> This will mean going through all of the options int hat ribbon, but
>>> you won't miss anything, as you would if you used the arrow keys. I
>>> learned this in a short class on using ?Word 2010 with JAWS. Also, the
>>> 1 of 4 is a grouping. For example, Cut copy past would all be in one
>>> grouping. If you use the TAB, you can ignore this grouping and go thru
>>> the options without worry of missing anything. It takes some practice
>>> to get used to, and it takes extra time to get thru all of the
>>> options, but it is accessible...just not as accessible, as was stated
>>> before.
>>>
>>> ~Jewel
>>>
>>> On 1/22/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Peter,
>>>> You are not a student and further probably do not use Office suite
>>>> everyday;
>>>> I don't even know if you have a job.
>>>> Yet you seem to discount our collective experience.
>>>>
>>>> No one said Office suite was not accessible. David Dodge said that it 
>>>> was
>>>> becoming less accessible.
>>>> That is true. The layout is confusing and again, Access is not 
>>>> accessible.
>>>> I
>>>> talked to a tech trainer about it and he told me so.
>>>> It is also less user friendly. Certainly the basic word processing 
>>>> stuff
>>>> work well; the short cut commands still work i.e. control S for save,
>>>> control n for new document, Others like cut, copy, and paste are the 
>>>> same.
>>>> Yet, as you use the ribbons more its confusing.
>>>>
>>>> For instance: go to the reference tab. You hear a group saying 1 of 5 
>>>> and
>>>> then you tab again; jaws says 1 of 4. Okay, what exactly is the group? 
>>>> One
>>>> of four what?
>>>>
>>>> How do you get to the box options? Jaws says  group box. For instance, 
>>>> you
>>>> tab to footnote or table of contents. If you down arrow, there are no
>>>> options.
>>>> Sure, I suppose word is accessible, but it is not user friendly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Peter Donahue
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 10:26 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>>>
>>>> Hello David and everyone,
>>>>
>>>>     And especially when others are using these products without any
>>>> trouble.
>>>> Might I suggest checking your software and screen reader's 
>>>> documentation
>>>> for
>>>> procedures and work-around to possible accessibility issues before
>>>> declaring
>>>> this or that product blind-unfriendly? We do that here and have found
>>>> fixes
>>>> for many presumed inaccessibility concerns.
>>>>
>>>> Peter Donahue
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 8:37 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Microsoft product accessibility
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would urge people to be more careful with how they word
>>>> things.  Everyone is saying Office 2010 is not as
>>>> accessible.  Strictly speaking, I don't think this is true.  You can
>>>> get to all the controls and identify them with most screen
>>>> readers.  I think the product may not be as usable for a blind
>>>> person, but it is not inaccessible.
>>>>
>>>> I am increasingly seeing a tendency on the part of the blind
>>>> community to brand software or a web site inaccessible when it is
>>>> that they just don't know how to use it, or their assistive technology.
>>>>
>>>> Surely there are problems out there, but we must be accurate when
>>>> reporting them.
>>>>
>>>> David Andrews
>>>>
>>>> At 08:25 PM 1/22/2012, you wrote:
>>>>>David,
>>>>>I really agree! 2003 with its menus was more accessible. 2007 wasn't
>>>>>too bad from what I heard. I did not try it though. I have 2010 and
>>>>>feel its less accessible. As someone already said, access is not
>>>>>accessible and in 2007 it was. Microsoft just had to change things; go
>>>>>figure.
>>>>>Does anyone have a point of contact for them in the accessibility
>>>>>department or whomever handels access issues there.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: David Dodge
>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 9:12 PM
>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>
>>>>>Microsoft programs appear to me to be getting less and less accessible 
>>>>>as
>>>>>time goes on.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you are having accessibility issues with these products I recommend
>>>>>contacting Microsoft from their website. It is unlikely that they will
>>>>> take
>>>>>the feedback into consideration, but still.
>>>>>
>>>>>2003 and 2007 or certainly more accessible than 2010.
>>>>>
>>>>>David
>>>>>----------------------------------
>>>>>David Dodge
>>>>>Doctoral Degree Granting Institutions Rep.
>>>>>State University of New York Student Assembly
>>>>>English Major
>>>>>University at Buffalo
>>>>>306 Clemens Hall
>>>>>Buffalo, NY 14260
>>>>>daviddod at buffalo.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 9:08 PM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <
>>>>>ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>As far as my experience, there is no advantage to using 2007 or 2010,
>>>>>>especially if you find 2003. Files created using 2007 and 2010 can 
>>>>>>still
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>read and edited using 2003. I will leave it up to you, but my
>>>>>>recommendation is to use Office 2003. There are ways to have both, but
>>>>>>they
>>>>>>are not easy or convenient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>>>bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
>>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:56 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>its my computer. Gee would be nice to have both versions
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:46 PM
>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, you cannot. Is this your computer? If so, I would strongly 
>>>>>>recommend
>>>>>>just uninstalling the current version of Office and installing Office
>>>>>>2003.
>>>>>>If it is not your computer, then maybe you could talk to someone who 
>>>>>>has
>>>>>>the
>>>>>>authority to do it and explain that it would make things a million 
>>>>>>times
>>>>>>easier.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Ashley Bramlett" <
>>>>>>bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:18 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Nicole,
>>>>>>I think I have an old cd with office 2003 around. Do you know if I can
>>>>>>have
>>>>>>them concurrently on the computer?
>>>>>>It just would be nice to have both options; so if I cannot figure out
>>>>>>where
>>>>>>something is in the ribbons, I can go back to the nice, simple menus 
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>2003.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message----- From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 7:10 PM
>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes. The excerpt is from the "What's New in JAWS 12.0" section. I do 
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>have Office 2007 or 2010, so I unfortunately cannot tell you how well 
>>>>>>it
>>>>>>works, but it is probably better than nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Arielle Silverman" <
>>>>>>arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 4:00 PM
>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Does JAWS 12 have this?
>>>>>>Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On 1/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> 
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do you know how to use the quick settings in JAWS? Copied from the 
>>>>>>>JAWS
>>>>>>>13
>>>>>>>help:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Virtual Ribbon Menu
>>>>>>>The Ribbon is a new style of menu available in many new applications
>>>>>>>being
>>>>>>>released today. Ribbons first appeared in Office 2007 programs, but 
>>>>>>>are
>>>>>>>now
>>>>>>>becoming more common in other applications tailored for the Windows 7
>>>>>>>operating system. Ribbons create an accessibility challenge due to
>>>>>>>inconsistent navigation between various groups and items. For 
>>>>>>>example,
>>>>>>>when
>>>>>>>you enter the Lower Ribbon and press the ARROW keys to move between
>>>>>>> items
>>>>>>>in
>>>>>>>a group, you can skip items and unexpectedly move into another group.
>>>>>>>Pressing TAB gives no indication that you have left one group and
>>>>>>> entered
>>>>>>>another. Using first letter navigation to find items can be difficult
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>frustrating. Finally, because of a group's layout, you do not know if
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>should navigate up, down, left, or right to select an item.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The new Virtual Ribbon Menu provides predictable navigation, lets you
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>everything in the Ribbon, and offers consistency when navigating with
>>>>>>>ARROW
>>>>>>>keys. For example, the ARROW and TAB keys move focus from the Upper
>>>>>>>Ribbon
>>>>>>>tabs to the Lower Ribbon groups. Once in a group, the ARROW, TAB, and
>>>>>>>SHIFT+TAB keys move through all items in a group, move from one group 
>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>next, and wrap to the beginning of the Ribbon. For submenus, SPACEBAR
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>ENTER expand menus, and ESCAPE collapses menus. The Virtual Ribbon 
>>>>>>>Menu
>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>off by default and can be switched on or off from within Settings 
>>>>>>>Center
>>>>>>>or
>>>>>>>the JAWS Startup Wizard. When it is on, the Ribbon is navigated using 
>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>traditional menu and submenu format familiar to most JAWS users.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:30 PM
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  jaws 13
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 6:23 PM
>>>>>>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What version of JAWS are you using?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 3:08 PM
>>>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] microsoft product accessibility
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Seems like the office suite is less user friendly with the new
>>>>>>>>> ribbons.
>>>>>>>>>Occasionally I find a button unlabeled.
>>>>>>>>>Anyway, is access and Publisher accessible at all? I'd like to 
>>>>>>>>>create
>>>>>>>>>simple charts with publisher and maybe brochures if I volunteer for 
>>>>>>>>>pr
>>>>>>>>>somewhere.
>>>>>>>>>Is excell still accessible?
>>>>>>>>>I'll need the access database for work probably.
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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