[nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Sun Jun 10 03:53:04 UTC 2012

Hello,
It's a tricky situation. We can't really say what it's like being mentally 
disabled and it's hard to say what mentally disabled can or can not do. We 
also can't tell if the blind who are nurtured to act like mentally disabled 
people really are mentally  disabled.
*That's a mouthful!*
I am of the opinion that mentally disabled people are way under employed and 
jobs like Goodwill are completely the wrong job for many of them. But I'm 
not a professional and I can only say from personal experience  that many 
mentally disabled people can do what they want quite well and often it's 
because they are babied and misunderstood  that they are pressured into 
doing jobs they aren’t good at.

I do wonder the need of blind adults to be working at good will in the first 
place though when it's not that hard learning programming and it's pretty 
easy to get reeducated for free in the United States as a blind person. If 
your career isn't working out, I don't see why one wouldn't just take a 
class at their community college and change their job. I believe SSI is for 
college students and those fresh out of college, or for a back up when work 
isn't coming. I am still a student, but I know I have for sure jobs if I go 
into programming or being a TVI. So other than the moral  issues, I'm not 
sure why capable blind people are working at goodwill.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 8:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott

Hi all,
I don't shop at Goodwill either, but I was regularly donating items
like used clothes to Goodwill, and my parents do as well. A customer
boycott might not matter much but a donor boycott would probably hurt
them considerably. I have to say I found Justin's arguments very
persuasive. I just hope that if we boycott all branches nationally, we
make it very clear that what we want is a change to national policy.
Interestingly, I used to rent an apartment from a woman (I'll call her
S) whose full-time job was to be a live-in caretaker for a woman with
Down's syndrome and significant mental retardation (I'll call her C).
Since I rented the apartment right below theirs, I got to know both S
and C quite well and learned a bit about C's situation. Apparently C
is employed by a program for people with intellectual disabilities
similar to Goodwill's but it wasn't Goodwill itself. I think S. told
me that C. was paid around $1 per hour for doing an extremely menial
job although I don't remember what that job was exactly. However, I
don't think C. had any living expenses at all because she lived
rent-free with S. She may have been helping pay for groceries. The
program she was in was very custodial and I'm not sure she even had
independent access to the money she earned at her job.
I don't think I can really judge whether people with disabilities like
C.'s are capable of living without custodial care or spending their
own money, any more than a deaf person should be able to judge how
independent blind people can be. I do suspect that people like C.
would achieve more if they were held to higher expectations, and
higher expectations should come with higher wages and more freedom.
I definitely believe that anyone who lives independently should be
paid at least the minimum wage, and I think it is clear that blindness
by itself doesn't prevent anyone from living independently. However, I
do wonder if minimum wage is necessary for those who don't have living
expenses or who don't manage their own finances because they are
living in custodial care situations. I'm sure there are people in
these custodial arrangements who shouldn't be there, but that almost
sounds like a separate issue. These people aren't in custodial care
because they are earning low wages, but because their parents or
others acting on their behalf have decided they don't have the
intellect or the maturity to make adult decisions. Again, this should
never be said about people who are just blind without other
disabilities. As far as intellectual disabilities go, in some cases
this judgment might be right; in other cases it might be wrong. But if
someone is clearly not able to manage adult expenses, should they be
paid adult wages? It's tricky.
I can also understand the argument that if noncompetitive employment
programs for the disabled raise wages, they can't hire as many
workers. This ultimately means that instead of a bunch of disabled
workers earning crappy wages, some will earn a decent wage and others
will earn nothing. Of course, we hope that the reduction in
noncompetitive jobs might bring more disabled workers into the
competitive job market. A mandatory minimum wage would also force
companies with high salaries at the top to redistribute their payscale
more fairly.
Arielle

On 6/9/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree, Humberto, and I hope what you say comes true. However, there's a
> lot of change we need to make in order for this to happen. Even if we
> overturn the subminimum wage provision, and I hope and pray that we do, we
> can't possibly tell employers that they have to hire people with
> disabilities. So, we need to change the beliefs and the attidudes of
> society, including employers, about the competence of blind people. I 
> know,
> it's a big job, but I think we've made a lot of progress so far.
>
> Just my thoughts,
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Humberto Avila
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 10:10 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> Hello, I agree with this as well. I hope that by doing the boycott to this
> company, in the national / universal spectrum, we are able to put pressure
> on employers, and on other companies and corporations, as well as
> organizations who pay subminimum wages. We could eventually end up
> spreading the word of stopping companies to pay subminimum wages and they
> could even see that people with disabilities and including blind people 
> are
> capable of being paid like the sighted population. If potential employers
> see this change happening, those employers will have a light bulb lit up,
> and will be able to see that blind people are competent, then will hire
> them. Then we can make more change. I see this happening, from my personal
> opinion. Let's hope that the NFB does this.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 6:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> Justin,
>
> I agree with the points you've made. If Goodwill was boycotted 
> universally,
> it would put more pressure on them to pay their disabled workers fair
> wages. Plus, if Goodwill developed a centralized wage policy and gave 
> their
> workers fair wages, other corporations might follow their lead.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Sat, 9 Jun 2012
> 23:19:15 +0000
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Goodwill Boycott
>
> One more note: I think that local business decision-makers within Goodwill
> Industries would be educated/led to philosophical change simply by the 
> fact
> that the corporate leaders of Goodwill Industries adopted a universal fair
> wage policy (if they did), so that would help with the education, too.
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> 밡ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens
> can change the world; indeed, it뭩 the only thing that ever has.?
> 뾏ARGARET MEAD
> ________________________________________
> From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 7:13 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Goodwill Boycott
>
> Arielle, Gabe, and all:
>
> I like the point that you've made about the decentralized wage policies 
> and
> rewarding good locations, but do you think that perhaps a benefit to
> boycotting universally would be a possibility that Goodwill Industries
> would create a centralized
> (universal) policy that all locations must pay their workers fair wages?
>
> I feel like the end result that we want is for Goodwill Industries to 
> adopt
> a universal standard of paying all workers fair wages, and the approach
> that you all have mentioned seems to me to address the decisions in
> individual locations.  I do understand the point of leading local business
> leaders to undergo philosophical change and choose to pay their workers
> fair wages, but which item is the top priority: education of individuals 
> or
>
> achievement of fair wages?   That's not a rhetorical question; I
> want to hear opinions on it.
>
> Justin
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> 밡ever doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens
> can change the world; indeed, it뭩 the only thing that ever has.?
> 뾏ARGARET MEAD
>
>
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