[nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Joshua Lester jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
Mon Mar 26 01:39:41 UTC 2012


Thanks, Chris.
I appreciate the kindness.
Thanks again.
Joshua

On 3/25/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Joshua,
>
> I'm sorry to hear about your mom's health! In that case, I
> completely understand your wanting to stay closer to home.  I
> hope she gets well soon and that nothing serious happens!
>
> God bless,
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:50:29 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating &
> Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
> She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
> I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens
> to her.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is
> something that I
>  need to know.  Is it that all other guide dog schools are to
> difficult to get
>  to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel
> that far
>  from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools;
> this is about
>  everything.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating &
> Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  Is that the only school that you would consider?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>  I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>  That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received
> your
>  dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>  If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are
> allergic to
>  dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles.  That being
> said, I
>  would
>  like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're
> dating
>  has an allergy to dogs.
>  That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>  I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>  Nicole, do you know if they do?
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
> they
>  are
>  not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
> want one
>  for
>  this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
> dogs
>  can
>  sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
> However,
>  there
>  is
>  of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs
> don't
>  like
>  it
>  when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
>  Nicole
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello All,
>  This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.
> First,
>  dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard
> for
>  someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
> height,
>  someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be
> hard for
>  anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
> squarely in
>  the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
> Even
>  geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
> true
>  story.
>  I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
> of
>  mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon,
> is
>  that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
> most
>  people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
> being,
>  who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which,
> like
>  Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
> other
>  hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone
> and go
>  on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making
> ourselves even
>  more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
> our
>  self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
> this:
>  Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>  If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>  though not always, make a comment which will spark off
> conversation.
>  If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation
> she will
>  angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
>  stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
> casual
>  touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>  Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman
> walk
>  into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
> requests
>  to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed
> to
>  enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
> blindness
>  will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal
> courting
>  sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't
> there
>  before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>  instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at
> parties
>  and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out
> your
>  blind however, all bets are off.
>  This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
> have a
>  dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly
> successful in
>  dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like
> Arielle
>  and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
> be
>  irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and
> consider as a
>  potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that
> come
>  into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>  intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>  parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
> ideas
>  they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
> decide to
>  stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are
> so
>  incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from
> each
>  other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>  thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
> person
>  despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
> than
>  mere visual acuity.
>  So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>  explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
> your
>  into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
> something
>  I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
> means.  Be
>   creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
> local
>  bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
> parties.  But
>  most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for
> a
>  sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never
> ends
>  well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>  completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full
> happy and
>  fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
> the
>  sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But,
> you do
>  learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
> thing
>  we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the
> experience of
>  friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
> because
>  it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since
> they
>  have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind
> people who
>  think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>  experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
> perspective.
>  All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones
> among
>  them all.
>  A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
> reference
>  to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best
> features of
>  yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
> chic,
>  when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
> Because I
>  have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get
> some
>  delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>  Sincerely,
>  Mary
>
>  On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
> blind
>  people
>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
> person.
>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>  Take care,
>  Doug
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello all,
>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
> own
>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
> online.  As a
>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
> and he
>  is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now,
> and I
>  have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that
> some of
>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
> and
>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
> disastrous
>  because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we
> actually
>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
> were
>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
> us
>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
> could
>  meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
> that was
>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
> of
>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
> was
>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
> person
>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also
> met
>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
> sites.  I
>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
> opinion,
>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
> things
>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
> most
>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
> when
>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
> share in
>  common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a
> sighted
>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>  sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
> I
>  haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in
> person
>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore
> it
>  really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
> we
>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
> most of
>  these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends
> online, and
>  basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have
> already said,
>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
> from a
>  blind person.  A blind person might be a little more
> understanding
>  considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the
> other
>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
> completely
>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
> their
>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
> such
>  as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people
> can
>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
> to
>  handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.
>
>
>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I
> was on
>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
> didn't
>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot
> of
>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
> the
>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
> first
>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
> blindness was
>  revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do
> find
>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
> public
>  place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
> profile up
>  and seeing what happens.
>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
> my
>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
> sites.
>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
> and
>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
> attractive
>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible
> the
>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
> hence
>  are better catches.
>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
> during
>  an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their
> profiles,
>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
> at some
>  point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
> and
>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
> before
>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
> when
>  they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
> happen at
>  any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you
> would
>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
> get to
>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>  Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I
> have done
>  both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
> person
>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
> thinking.
>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
> the
>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
> blind.  I
>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
> was
>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
> what
>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
> my
>  nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the
> relationship I
>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
> with the
>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
> think
>  of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of
> blindness
>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
> interests and
>  passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of
> us
>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
> However, there
>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
> passions
>  with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
> I
>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>  common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
> to
>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
> singles'
>  parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share
> your
>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
> division,
>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
> better
>  way to build lasting connections.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
> simply for
>  the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things
> like
>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
> general
>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
> etc
>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
>  Later.
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hello Robin,
>
>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
> learn
>  from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>  others.
>  As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.
> Not
>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
> and
>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>  options,
>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
> being
>  rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind
> people
>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
> necessarily
>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
> etc
>  etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>  questions.
>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>  willing
>  to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...
> why not
>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
> that
>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>  (whether online or not).
>
>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck
> with
>  your
>  dating search.
>
>  Nimer J
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
> that
>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
> you
>  meet
>  them, they're a criminal.
>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
> yes,
>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>  would
>  be
>  very
>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
> as
>  they
>  appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people
> and
>  find
>  that
>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>  feel
>  that
>  is
>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
> a
>  daily
>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
>  found
>  there
>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
> when
>  they
>  are
>  confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
>  sited
>  person
>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating
>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>  you
>  had
>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
> forward
>  to
>  hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like
>  a
>  breeze
>
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>  nabs-l:
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>  contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine
>  is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>  system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>  news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>  (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>  contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine
>  is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
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