[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

Sat Apr 13 16:40:04 UTC 2013

Personally if I bust my ass to have a career in which I can afford
something and that is what I chose to buy, I see nothing wrong with that.
That is like saying people who can afford nice vacations shouldn't do it or
buy a nice house. You cannot put a price tag on freedom being limited to
where a bus goes or when family and friend's can drive you is not true
freedom.

And who are these friend's and family? I don't have people who are sitting
around waiting to drive me to appointments. My fiance will drive me to
appointment because eh feel it is stupid for me to waste 4 hours to take
the bus but the is a cost and that is he has to use vacation time form work
to do it.

I want to go where I want to go and when I want to go.

On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 1:01 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>wrote:

> Evening, Josh,
>
> Yes, I tend to regard a question of blind people devoting such a
> substantial portion of their riches to such a lofty and  arguably realistic
> venture as a friggen car, as a completely self serving way to bleed one's
> coffers unnecessarily, with a healthy  trepidation... As if such an
> Over-the-top stroking of one's ego actually matters within a big picture?
>  After all, people are suffering, even  dying in our world quite
> unnecessarily. war and oppression of our brothers and sisters continues
> being initiated, and propagated, as the unfeeling wheels of Capitalism, and
> policies designed  to oppress us grind on, unabated.
> And people's soul focus seems to be a Reinventing of the wheel?
> Have a good day!
> Carly
>
>> >>
>> >> > Hello,
>> >> > Google is supportive of having blind drivers, they have come to
>> events and
>> >> > shown blind folks the car. I've sat in quite a few, although I've
>> never
>> >> > been in one while it has been driven. I'd think it will be exactly
>> like
>> >> > being a passenger of a sighted driver, but without the crazy
>> breakings
>> >> > every few minutes and the heart attacks the sighted drivers
>> constantly face.
>> >> > Frankly, I would trust the Google Car way more than I would trust my
>> mom
>> >> > as the driver. Computers are much more reliable than humans in my
>> opinion.
>> >> > Thanks,
>> >> >
>> >> > Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> > -----Original Message----- From: christopher nusbaum
>> >> > Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 6:03 AM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>> >> >
>> >> > As it stands, he's going to need a sighted driver in the car who can
>> >> > take the wheel when the need arises. But Google will have to fix this
>> >> > if they're hoping for a blind person to drive it independently.
>> >> >
>> >> > Chris Nusbaum
>> >> >
>> >> > Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >
>> >> > On Apr 12, 2013, at 8:18 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >  Hi, Chris, Kirt and everyone else on this thread,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You guys are right in saying that, one need not pass judgement
>> without
>> >> >> fully experiencing this machine in Wonderland. it's true we don't
>> have all
>> >> >> the information. And, I think it's right when you say the thing
>> doesn't
>> >> >> murge onto the freeway. What happens to the driving blink if he
>> dares to
>> >> >> usese se the interstate? usese the freeway? 4/12/2013, christopher
>> nusbaum
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> Kirt,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I agree with you. Before we make any judgments on the Google car,
>> we
>> >> >>> must remember that it is still in the planning stages and that  all
>> >> >>> Google cars that have been tested so far are no more than
>> prototypes.
>> >> >>> This is evidenced by the need for the Google car to be taken over
>> by
>> >> >>> human driver when it pulls off the highway, as the story which
>> someone
>> >> >>> reposted here mentioned.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Carly, we must also take into account that some blind people don't
>> >> >>> live in areas where public transportation is easily available,
>> such as
>> >> >>> Boston or New York City. I, for instance, live in a semi rural
>> town in
>> >> >>> Maryland, where our only options For public transportation are
>> >> >>> paratransit and a cab service. As you can imagine, neither of these
>> >> >>> options are preferable Because of the cost if not the reliability.
>> For
>> >> >>> this reason, I would love the independence that the Google car
>> might
>> >> >>> give me in this area.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Just my thoughts,
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Chris Nusbaum
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:41 AM, Kirt Manwaring <
>> kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> > Patrick,
>> >> >>> >  If it's time they want, I'm willing to give it.  I hope you're
>> >> >>> > right; we'll have to wait and see.  I guess my only point was
>> that
>> >> >>> > this thing isn't right around the corner; while it's realisticly
>> >> >>> > viable now, it's still probably a long ways off before we'll be
>> able
>> >> >>> > to drive.  Where the google car is now is probably comparable to
>> where
>> >> >>> > the internet was thirty or so years ago; people could see the
>> >> >>> > possibilities, it was realistic and people "in the know" were
>> probably
>> >> >>> > aware it was coming...but it still had a long way to go before
>> it was
>> >> >>> > viable to the general public.
>> >> >>> >  And, Patrick, you're probably right that airplane pilots don't
>> have
>> >> >>> > to manually control the plane very much between takeoff and
>> landing.
>> >> >>> > Still, I can almost guarantee you they are paying very close
>> attention
>> >> >>> > in the event something goes wrong.
>> >> >>> >  Carley,
>> >> >>> >  I don't really see anything inherently wrong or undesirable
>> about
>> >> >>> > driving.  In most places it is probably more efficient than
>> public
>> >> >>> > transport.  Of course there are exceptions; New York city comes
>> to
>> >> >>> > mind, for instance.  Still, living where I do now, I would
>> totally
>> >> >>> > jump on the chance to drive if I could and it were realistic and
>> safe,
>> >> >>> > at least most of the time.  That being said, it's far enough
>> away that
>> >> >>> > I'm definitely not going to stop riding my busses and trains any
>> time
>> >> >>> > soon.
>> >> >>> >  Best,
>> >> >>> > Kirt
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > On 4/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >> Count me in.  I'm driving.   No wait; not driving, drivin.
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.****org<
>> nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.**org <nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org>>]
>> >> >>> On Behalf Of Carly
>> >> >>> >> Mihalakis
>> >> >>> >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:33 PM
>> >> >>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
>> National
>> >> >>> >> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> Hi, List,
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> On the other hand, for my whole life I have watched sighted
>> folk seem
>> >> >>> >> to agonize over so much turmoil, and hostility towrd their
>> fellow
>> >> >>> >> man, as they drive. I have always been grateful not having that
>> crap
>> >> >>> >> to contend with. Besides, I am not confident about chances of
>> ever
>> >> >>> >> affording such a car. And, I don't care about the principles
>> personal
>> >> >>> >> cars supposedly afford. Where can they take you that a bus,
>> train, or
>> >> >>> >> friend/driver cannot?
>> >> >>> >>  Ultimately, i believe traveling from point A to point B,
>> oughta be
>> >> >>> >> a communal affair. Leave the driving to ol' Sighty!
>> >> >>> >> So no, on the car!
>> >> >>> >> Car At 06:23 PM 4/11/2013, Sophie Trist wrote:
>> >> >>> >>> I can't wait to see these google cars come out. It will be a
>> major
>> >> >>> >>> milestone in the independence and assimulation of blind people
>> in
>> >> >>> >>> sighted society. My only worry is that the sighties won't
>> trust us
>> >> >>> >>> to drive, even (maybe especially) if the car was
>> >> >>> >>> computer-controlled. Even my boyfriend, who is blind, says he
>> will
>> >> >>> >>> never trust a self-propelled car. Our trouble will be
>> convincing
>> >> >>> >>> them that it's safe for us and for others on the road.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> >>> >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:02:08 -0700
>> >> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Hello,
>> >> >>> >>> The reason why the Google Car is Superior is because it is
>> already
>> >> >>> >>> going
>> >> >>> >>> mainstream, it has a major company behind it and there is
>> nothing
>> >> >>> >>> wrong
>> >> >>> >> with
>> >> >>> >>> backing both cars.
>> >> >>> >>> The big debate will be if people want to drive under their own
>> >>>
>> >> >>> control or
>> >> >>> >>> a
>> >> >>> >>> computers. It is not unlike reading Braille or using a screen
>> reader
>> >> >>> >>> to
>> >> >>> >> read
>> >> >>> >>> a book. Braille is all fine and dandy, but a screen reader is
>> very
>> >> >>> >>> important. The difference is the Google car is going
>> mainstream and
>> >> >>> >>> will
>> >> >>> >>> have mainstreem support. It would be the same if Jaws went
>> >> >>> mainstreem >>> and
>> >> >>> >>> companies like Google started making units that used Jaws and
>> no >>>
>> >> >>> screen.
>> >> >>> >>> Braille would be useful, but not particularly necessary for
>> most >>>
>> >> >>> common
>> >> >>> >>> tasks.
>> >> >>> >>> If one used a car on city roads and highways, there would be
>> very
>> >> >>> >>> little
>> >> >>> >>> or
>> >> >>> >>> no need to manually drive. If one wanted to map a long
>> driveway or
>> >> >>> >>> country
>> >> >>> >>> road, one would need to manually drive it till the road could
>> be
>> >> >>> >>> completely
>> >> >>> >>> entered into the database.
>> >> >>> >>> Thanks,
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> >>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> >>> From: Sophie Trist
>> >> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:37 PM
>> >> >>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Brandon, I totally 100% agree!!! However, didn't the NFB
>> invent a
>> >> >>> >>> self-propelled car of sorts? If so, it might be hard to
>> convince
>> >> >>> >>> them to back the google car unless we can prove theirs is
>> >> >>> >>> superior.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> >>> >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> >> >>> >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> >> >>> >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:05:01 -0700
>> >> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Hello,
>> >> >>> >>> Yes in a way, the logistics of liability still need to be taken
>> >> >>> >>> into account
>> >> >>> >>> I'm sure and licensing probably still needs to be worked out,
>> but
>> >> >>> >>> if the
>> >> >>> >>> government officials are pushed, it will happen very soon.
>> >> >>> >>> I think the NFB should push for these quite hard. Perhaps they
>> >> >>> >>> could even
>> >> >>> >>> ask that a car come to the convention, I think Google would
>> take
>> >> >>> >>> the
>> >> >>> >>> challenge.
>> >> >>> >>> Thanks,
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> >> >>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >>> >>> From: Justin Young
>> >> >>> >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:13 AM
>> >> >>> >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> So does this mean these vehicles will soon be on the market for
>> >> >>> >>> individuals to purchase in Nevada?  Sounds like a very
>> >> >>> >>> interesting
>> >> >>> >>> project.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> On 4/11/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>> >>> Google's self-driven cars will soon be appearing on Nevada
>> roads
>> >> >>> >>> after
>> >> >>> >>> the state's Department of Motor Vehicles approved on Monday the
>> >> >>> >>> nation's
>> >> >>> >>> first autonomous vehicle license.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> The move came after officials rode along on drives on highways,
>> >> >>> >>> in
>> >> >>> >>> Carson City neighborhoods and along the famous Las Vegas Strip,
>> >> >>> >>> the
>> >> >>> >>> Nevada DMV said in a statement.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> The Nevada legislature last year authorized self-driven cars
>> for
>> >> >>> >>> the
>> >> >>> >>> state's roads, the first such law in the United States. That
>> law
>> >> >>> >>> went
>> >> >>> >>> into effect on March 1, 2012.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Google's self-driven cars rely on video cameras, radar sensors,
>> >> >>> >>> lasers,
>> >> >>> >>> and a database of information collected from manually driven
>> >> >>> >>> cars to
>> >> >>> >>> help navigate, according to the company.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> The DMV licensed a Toyota Prius that Google modified with its
>> >> >>> >>> experimental driver-less technology, developed by Stanford
>> >> >>> >>> professor and
>> >> >>> >>> Google Vice President Sebastian Thrun.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Google's self-driving cars have crossed the Golden Gate Bridge
>> >> >>> >>> and
>> >> >>> >>> driven along the picturesque Pacific Coast Highway, according
>> to
>> >> >>> >>> the
>> >> >>> >>> company.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Autonomous vehicles are the "car of the future," Nevada DMV
>> >> >>> >>> director
>> >> >>> >>> Bruce Breslow said in a statement. The state also has plans to
>> >> >>> >>> eventually license autonomous vehicles owned by the members of
>> >> >>> >>> the
>> >> >>> >>> public, the DMV said.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Legislation to regulate autonomous cars is being considered in
>> >> >>> >>> other
>> >> >>> >>> states, including Google's home state of California.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> "The vast majority of vehicle accidents are due to human error.
>> >> >>> >>> Through
>> >> >>> >>> the use of computers, sensors and other systems, an autonomous
>> >> >>> >>> vehicle
>> >> >>> >>> is capable of analyzing the driving environment more quickly
>> and
>> >> >>> >>> operating the vehicle more safely," California state Senator
>> >> >>> >>> Alex
>> >> >>> >>> Padilla said in March when he introduced that state's
>> autonomous
>> >> >>> >>> car
>> >> >>> >>> legislation.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> Other car companies are also seeking self-driven car licenses
>> in
>> >> >>> >>> Nevada,
>> >> >>> >>> the DMV said.
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> >> >>> >>> info for
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> jty727%40gmai<http://nfbnet.**org/mailman/options/nabs-l_**
>> nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmai<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmai>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> l.com
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info
>> >> >>> >>> for
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> brandonkeithb<http://nfbnet.**org/mailman/options/nabs-l_**
>> nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> iggs%40gmail.com
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info
>> >> >>> >>> for nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> sweetpeareade<http://nfbnet.**org/mailman/options/nabs-l_**
>> nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> r%40gmail.com
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> brandonkeithb<http://nfbnet.**org/mailman/options/nabs-l_**
>> nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> iggs%40gmail.com
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> sweetpeareade<http://nfbnet.**org/mailman/options/nabs-l_**
>> nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> r%40gmail.com
>> >> >>> >>>
>> >> >>> >>> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> carlymih%40comcast.net<http://**nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**
>> nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%**40comcast.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net>
>> >
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> justin.williams2%40gmail<http:**//nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**
>> nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.**williams2%40gmail<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail>
>> >
>> >> >>> >> .com
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >>
>> >> >>> >> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> >> >>> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com<htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**
>> options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> >>> >
>> >> >>> > ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> >> >>> > nabs-l:
>> >> >>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com<htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**
>> options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >>> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> >> >>> nabs-l:
>> >> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >>> carlymih%40comcast.net<http://**nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**
>> nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%**40comcast.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net>
>> >
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ______________________________****_________________
>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> >> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> >> dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com<htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**
>> options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > ______________________________****_________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**>
>> >> > brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com<**http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**
>> options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> > ______________________________****_________________
>> >> > nabs-l mailing list
>> >> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> <htt**p://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >
>> >> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> > nabs-l:
>> >> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/****options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/****
>> sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu>
>> <http://**nfbnet.org/mailman/options/**nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%**
>> 40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> ______________________________**_________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> jlester8462%40pccuaedu.**onmicrosoft.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40pccuaedu.onmicrosoft.com>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________**_________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> carlymih%40comcast.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net>
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________**_________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blackbyrdfly%40gmail.com>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> carlymih%40comcast.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**sgermano%40asu.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu>
>