[nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets

Sun Apr 14 00:24:01 UTC 2013

Justin,
I completely agree. In places like New York or Philadelphia, it might
not make sense to have an autonomous car. However, it's always better
to have the choice between the bus or the car. I'm really excited
about this, especially since this car is actually going to come out
soon. That statement isn't a knock against the NFB, but you have to
admit, their autonomous car has been, frankly, disappointing. Why
isn't it in production? Why do we only see it on rare occasions?
Patrick

On 4/12/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> In new York, or certain of our cities with good public transit, that may
> work just fine.   In Columbia south Carolina, the bus system is almost
> ethereal. It ends in most places at 7 p.m, and it's rout is not but so
> robust.     There are places that I don't have access to, and well, I won't
> mention the weekends.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> blackbyrdfly at gmail.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 13, 2013 11:24 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>
> I still don't understand why there is any dilemma here at all. It's neither
> cheaper nor more efficient to take the bus than to own a car. It is more
> eco-friendly, but so too is car pooling. Over time, if you use public
> transit every day, including the occasional cab or sighted friend's car,
> buying a car will pay for itself, even of you factor in the cost of
> maintenance and insurance. I'd say 3 to 4 years.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 13, 2013, at 12:55 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> 'Evening, blackbyrdfly,
>>
>> All I was trying to point out is, if we as blind students are to shed any
> personal investment in the sometimes alarming cunumdrum of blind folks
> driving,  or continue to simply take the bus, perhaps said students can
> more
> fully appreciate some corner of this dilemma, previously unrealized. to
> offend was definitely not my intention.
>> Carly
>> At 02:41 PM 4/12/2013, blackbyrdfly at gmail.com wrote:
>>> This email implies that someone's "blind ass" can't earn a substantial
> living comparable to that of a sighted person. I find this statement
> offensive, blatantly false, and inappropriate for a mailing list composed
> of
> blind students who are all, I hope, in school pursuing gainful careers.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Apr 12, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Carly Mihalakis <carlymih at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Good morning, Suzanne,
>>> >
>>> > So you're saying you see your blind ass eventually  having enough
>>> > dough
> for one of these things? At least we can take the bus, no matter how long
> it
> often takes to get somewhere. Car 07:08 AM 4/11/2013, justin williams
> wrote:
>>> >> No not even good.  Cabs are two expensive, and you have to measure
>>> >> bus
> v.
>>> >> paratransit, or move everywhere when you change jobs.
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne
> Germano
>>> >> Sent: Friday, April 12, 2013 8:54 AM
>>> >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>> >>
>>> >> I would drive one of these in a heartbeat. I hate the bus! I am 49
>>> >> and
> have
>>> >> been ridng the bus since I was 12. I am frustrated it takes me 2 or
> more
>>> >> hours to get somewhere that takes 20-30 minutes by car. And this has
> been
>>> >> both in San Diego and Phoenix with buses running every 20-30 minutes
>>> >> I
>>> >> almost always end up with 2 hour trips each way.  It is frustrating
>>> >> to
> only
>>> >> be able to apply to a company who is on a bus route. I want the
> freedom to
>>> >> work where I would enjoy myself the most and with the position that
> matches
>>> >> my skill best. I also live in Phoenix (for now) and by the time I get
>>> >> anywhere I am dripping in sweat. that is not good when going to work.
> Give
>>> >> me a Google car!!
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:09 AM, christopher nusbaum <
>>> >> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> > Kirt,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > I agree with you. Before we make any judgments on the Google car,
>>> >> > we
>>> >> > must remember that it is still in the planning stages and that  all
>>> >> > Google cars that have been tested so far are no more than
> prototypes.
>>> >> > This is evidenced by the need for the Google car to be taken over
>>> >> > by
>>> >> > human driver when it pulls off the highway, as the story which
> someone
>>> >> > reposted here mentioned.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Carly, we must also take into account that some blind people don't
>>> >> > live in areas where public transportation is easily available, such
> as
>>> >> > Boston or New York City. I, for instance, live in a semi rural town
> in
>>> >> > Maryland, where our only options For public transportation are
>>> >> > paratransit and a cab service. As you can imagine, neither of these
>>> >> > options are preferable Because of the cost if not the reliability.
> For
>>> >> > this reason, I would love the independence that the Google car
>>> >> > might
>>> >> > give me in this area.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Just my thoughts,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Chris Nusbaum
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Sent from my iPhone
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Apr 12, 2013, at 2:41 AM, Kirt Manwaring
> <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > > Patrick,
>>> >> > >  If it's time they want, I'm willing to give it.  I hope you're
>>> >> > > right; we'll have to wait and see.  I guess my only point was
>>> >> > > that
>>> >> > > this thing isn't right around the corner; while it's realisticly
>>> >> > > viable now, it's still probably a long ways off before we'll be
> able
>>> >> > > to drive.  Where the google car is now is probably comparable to
>>> >> > > where the internet was thirty or so years ago; people could see
> the
>>> >> > > possibilities, it was realistic and people "in the know" were
>>> >> > > probably aware it was coming...but it still had a long way to go
>>> >> > > before it was viable to the general public.
>>> >> > >  And, Patrick, you're probably right that airplane pilots don't
> have
>>> >> > > to manually control the plane very much between takeoff and
> landing.
>>> >> > > Still, I can almost guarantee you they are paying very close
>>> >> > > attention in the event something goes wrong.
>>> >> > >  Carley,
>>> >> > >  I don't really see anything inherently wrong or undesirable
>>> >> > > about
>>> >> > > driving.  In most places it is probably more efficient than
>>> >> > > public
>>> >> > > transport.  Of course there are exceptions; New York city comes
>>> >> > > to
>>> >> > > mind, for instance.  Still, living where I do now, I would
>>> >> > > totally
>>> >> > > jump on the chance to drive if I could and it were realistic and
>>> >> > > safe, at least most of the time.  That being said, it's far
>>> >> > > enough
>>> >> > > away that I'm definitely not going to stop riding my busses and
>>> >> > > trains any time soon.
>>> >> > >  Best,
>>> >> > > Kirt
>>> >> > >
>>> >> > > On 4/10/13, justin williams <justin.williams2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > >> Count me in.  I'm driving.   No wait; not driving, drivin.
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> > >> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of
> Carly
>>> >> > >> Mihalakis
>>> >> > >> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:33 PM
>>> >> > >> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
>>> >> > >> National
>>> >> > >> Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >> > >> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >> Hi, List,
>>> >> > >>
>>> >> > >> On the other hand, for my whole life I have watched sighted folk
>>> >> > >> seem to agonize over so much turmoil, and hostility towrd their
>>> >> > >> fellow man, as they drive. I have always been grateful not
>>> >> > >> having
>>> >> > >> that crap to contend with. Besides, I am not confident about
>>> >> > >> chances of ever affording such a car. And, I don't care about
>>> >> > >> the
>>> >> > >> principles personal cars supposedly afford. Where can they take
> you
>>> >> > >> that a bus, train, or friend/driver cannot?
>>> >> > >>  Ultimately, i believe traveling from point A to point B, oughta
> be
>>> >> > >> a communal affair. Leave the driving to ol' Sighty!
>>> >> > >> So no, on the car!
>>> >> > >> Car At 06:23 PM 4/11/2013, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>> >> > >>> I can't wait to see these google cars come out. It will be a
> major
>>> >> > >>> milestone in the independence and assimulation of blind people
> in
>>> >> > >>> sighted society. My only worry is that the sighties won't trust
> us
>>> >> > >>> to drive, even (maybe especially) if the car was
>>> >> > >>> computer-controlled. Even my boyfriend, who is blind, says he
> will
>>> >> > >>> never trust a self-propelled car. Our trouble will be
>>> >> > >>> convincing
>>> >> > >>> them that it's safe for us and for others on the road.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> > >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>> >> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> >> > >> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > >>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 14:02:08 -0700
>>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Hello,
>>> >> > >>> The reason why the Google Car is Superior is because it is
> already
>>> >> > going
>>> >> > >>> mainstream, it has a major company behind it and there is
> nothing
>>> >> > >>> wrong
>>> >> > >> with
>>> >> > >>> backing both cars.
>>> >> > >>> The big debate will be if people want to drive under their own
>>> >> > >>> control
>>> >> > or
>>> >> > >>> a
>>> >> > >>> computers. It is not unlike reading Braille or using a screen
>>> >> > >>> reader to
>>> >> > >> read
>>> >> > >>> a book. Braille is all fine and dandy, but a screen reader is
> very
>>> >> > >>> important. The difference is the Google car is going mainstream
>>> >> > >>> and
>>> >> > will
>>> >> > >>> have mainstreem support. It would be the same if Jaws went
>>> >> > >>> mainstreem
>>> >> > and
>>> >> > >>> companies like Google started making units that used Jaws and
>>> >> > >>> no
>>> >> > screen.
>>> >> > >>> Braille would be useful, but not particularly necessary for
>>> >> > >>> most
>>> >> > >>> common tasks.
>>> >> > >>> If one used a car on city roads and highways, there would be
> very
>>> >> > little
>>> >> > >>> or
>>> >> > >>> no need to manually drive. If one wanted to map a long driveway
> or
>>> >> > country
>>> >> > >>> road, one would need to manually drive it till the road could
>>> >> > >>> be
>>> >> > >>> completely entered into the database.
>>> >> > >>> Thanks,
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> >> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> > >>> From: Sophie Trist
>>> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 1:37 PM
>>> >> > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Brandon, I totally 100% agree!!! However, didn't the NFB invent
> a
>>> >> > >>> self-propelled car of sorts? If so, it might be hard to
>>> >> > >>> convince
>>> >> > >>> them to back the google car unless we can prove theirs is
>>> >> > >>> superior.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> > >>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>>> >> > >>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> >> > >>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> > >>> Date sent: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 10:05:01 -0700
>>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Hello,
>>> >> > >>> Yes in a way, the logistics of liability still need to be taken
>>> >> > >>> into account I'm sure and licensing probably still needs to be
>>> >> > >>> worked out, but if the government officials are pushed, it will
>>> >> > >>> happen very soon.
>>> >> > >>> I think the NFB should push for these quite hard. Perhaps they
>>> >> > >>> could even ask that a car come to the convention, I think
>>> >> > >>> Google
>>> >> > >>> would take the challenge.
>>> >> > >>> Thanks,
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> >> > >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> > >>> From: Justin Young
>>> >> > >>> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 9:13 AM
>>> >> > >>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google car takes to the streets
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> So does this mean these vehicles will soon be on the market for
>>> >> > >>> individuals to purchase in Nevada?  Sounds like a very
> interesting
>>> >> > >>> project.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> On 4/11/13, Robert William Kingett <kingettr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> > >>> Google's self-driven cars will soon be appearing on Nevada
>>> >> > >>> roads
>>> >> > >>> after the state's Department of Motor Vehicles approved on
> Monday
>>> >> > >>> the nation's first autonomous vehicle license.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> The move came after officials rode along on drives on highways,
> in
>>> >> > >>> Carson City neighborhoods and along the famous Las Vegas Strip,
>>> >> > >>> the Nevada DMV said in a statement.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> The Nevada legislature last year authorized self-driven cars
>>> >> > >>> for
>>> >> > >>> the state's roads, the first such law in the United States.
>>> >> > >>> That
>>> >> > >>> law went into effect on March 1, 2012.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Google's self-driven cars rely on video cameras, radar sensors,
>>> >> > >>> lasers, and a database of information collected from manually
>>> >> > >>> driven cars to help navigate, according to the company.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> The DMV licensed a Toyota Prius that Google modified with its
>>> >> > >>> experimental driver-less technology, developed by Stanford
>>> >> > >>> professor and Google Vice President Sebastian Thrun.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Google's self-driving cars have crossed the Golden Gate Bridge
> and
>>> >> > >>> driven along the picturesque Pacific Coast Highway, according
>>> >> > >>> to
>>> >> > >>> the company.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Autonomous vehicles are the "car of the future," Nevada DMV
>>> >> > >>> director Bruce Breslow said in a statement. The state also has
>>> >> > >>> plans to eventually license autonomous vehicles owned by the
>>> >> > >>> members of the public, the DMV said.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Legislation to regulate autonomous cars is being considered in
>>> >> > >>> other states, including Google's home state of California.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> "The vast majority of vehicle accidents are due to human error.
>>> >> > >>> Through
>>> >> > >>> the use of computers, sensors and other systems, an autonomous
>>> >> > >>> vehicle is capable of analyzing the driving environment more
>>> >> > >>> quickly and operating the vehicle more safely," California
>>> >> > >>> state
>>> >> > >>> Senator Alex Padilla said in March when he introduced that
> state's
>>> >> > >>> autonomous car legislation.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>> Other car companies are also seeking self-driven car licenses
>>> >> > >>> in
>>> >> > >>> Nevada, the DMV said.
>>> >> > >>>
>>> >> > >>>
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