[nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind

Sun Dec 8 07:24:33 UTC 2013

Hi Elizabeth and all,

This is a really interesting discussion, and like everyone else who
has commented so far I've had quite a few experiences with this
myself.

This used to bother me a lot more when I was younger, and less secure
with myself.  I thought that others would judge me based on how much I
could or could not see, so I tended to be really defensive in reacting
to these situations.  But, I came to the realization that there are
basically 2 ways in which I can personally deal with these things.  I
can decide if I am comfortable with the person, or if they don't need
to know.  I only tell strangers things about my vision when there is
something to be gained from it.  While that might sound shady, I mean
that I tell them information when I ask for assistance in a public
place, (because I wear glasses and don't always walk with my cane
extended people don't always realize that I am blind).  I have had
experiences when I am sitting on a bus and someone will ask about me
in some way.  I've never had a random stranger specifically pry about
my vision, but it has happened on other topics like my notetaker or my
cane.  I make no great effort to educate them about the blind, or to
spout off NFB philosophy, but so long as they're friendly and just
seem curious I'll give them a brief explanation and be friendly about
it too.  Sometimes people are not judging you based on your vision,
but are just generally interested in something they've never seen
before.  And sometimes all they need is, "Oh, this is like a mini
computer, I'm reading a book on it now," or "All IPhones actually have
the speech software I'm using in it," will be enough to satisfy them.
On buses it can actually be a great way to pass the time, like when a
passenger has enough interest to try using VoiceOver on their phone,
or when I get to geek out over braille.

I have had arm grabbing experiences, in which I react in kind to the
arm grabber as Arielle does.  If they jostle me by grabbing my arm
unexpectedly I yank my arm away as abruptly as I can so I can move on
and get away.  If someone grabs and asks if they can help, (which
usually doesn't happen as I've gottnn more plain asking or arm
grabbing than both together), I'll take my arm away more gently and
politely decline the favor, without feeling the need to give an
explanation as to what I'm doing or how I'm going to do it.  If people
just ask, I just say I've got it and continue what I'm doing, and
usually the problem is solved then.

The one experience that has really tried me is when someone asked if I
needed healing.  I did not see them so I don't know if they were into
some different religion, but that is the only experience where it
really took a lot of my effort to keep my cool.  The absurdity of that
encounter got me more than anything else, but it probably wasn't
absurd to stop me on the street to ask if I needed healing to that
person.  I just try to remember that questions are part of the
minority territory; other people are going to have them.

What I've found for myself though is that I don't mind educating those
who are genuinely curious, or who say they don't know what to do for
their family member or child who is blind and really want to help them
become independent.  I love being able to help in that way.  Those who
seem to just not get it are perhaps those who could use the most
education, but I agree with you that, as much as I agree with the NFB
philosophies, it can be trying to deal with that as an individual and
especially as a busy college student with places to go.  (Those who
stop me on the street like that when I'm on a schedule are probably
getting my annoyance from them holding me up more than them asking
what I perceive as a ridiculous question).  I don't think that you owe
anyone an explanation that you don't want to provide one to, and that
saying something along the lines of that sort of thing being personal
information should suffice.

Just my thoughts.

On 12/7/13, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> I think the answers you are getting reflect the fact that none of us
> really know what to say when this happens. We often just make
> something up on the fly and hope it's good enough. I struggle to give
> you advice because I have been in these situations and haven't figured
> out one good thing to say that is polite yet also gets my point across
> while also not taking up too much time. Seems like if someone asks if
> you are legally blind or blind, leaving it at "I'm blind" is perfectly
> fine. If the question is more detailed about what you can see, then
> your answer will depend on how much time you have with them and how
> much detail you feel comfortable sharing.
> For the arm-grab situations, I have come up with a pretty consistent
> formula for handling those. If the person grabs without saying a word
> to me,  then I simply pull my arm out of their grasp without saying a
> word to them. If the person says something like "let me help you"
> while grabbing then I pull out of their grasp while responding with
> "Please let go of me; thank you". I've found this allows me to
> maintain some politeness while also firmly conveying that I will not
> allow them to grab me. If time allows I may explain to the surprised
> grabber that it is actually more helpful to give verbal directions
> rather than grabbing and that grabbing interferes with my balance and
> increases my risk of tripping and falling (as I know from occasional
> experience). People seem surprised at first but generally accept this
> information.
>
> Arielle
>
> On 12/7/13, Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Steve and all,
>>
>> I only mentioned nFB philosophy as a means to try and explain my
>> questions
>> more to this email list.
>>
>> I honestly do not understand why I have to be some great educator of the
>> blind when this is not a role I wish to take on in my life. I would
>> rather
>> be able to go about living my life without the constant interruptions and
>> interference by sighted people. I do not want to have to explain to some
>> stranger standing with me on the street corner waiting to cross the
>> street
>> how much eyesight I have or how I am able to cross the street as a blind
>> person. I do not want to have to explain to someone whether or not I am
>> blind or legally blind when they believe one must have some sort of
>> eyesight
>>
>> to perform some sort of task, and the more eyesight one has, the more
>> likely
>>
>> a person is able to perform the task. And I know this one was not
>> mentioned
>>
>> in my previous posts, but I do not want strangers grabbing my arm thinking
>> I
>>
>> am in need of assistance when I am just going about the normal business
>> of
>> my life. I just never really know what to say to these people in some two
>> second interaction with them to be able to fully answer their curiosity,
>> or
>>
>> to get them to leave me alone.
>>
>> I just thought maybe other blind people have encountered these kinds of
>> questions from strangers, and could provide some suggestions as to how I
>> could go about dealing with these kinds of people in my life. However,
>> based
>>
>> on the responses I have received thus far, it would seem as though most
>> people on this list have not encountered these kinds of questions in
>> their
>> lives, or believe there is some big distinction between being legally
>> blind
>>
>> and blind. All I was looking for were some suggestions as to how I could
>> go
>>
>> about dealing with this situation better so I do not look like some
>> stupid
>> fool trying to figure out what to say when I really do not know what to
>> say.
>>
>> I am sorry if this email list was the wrong place for me to pose my
>> question.
>>
>> Elizabeth
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Steve Jacobson" <steve.jacobson at visi.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2013 11:23 AM
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind Verses Legally Blind
>>
>>> Elizabeth,
>>>
>>> One always has to remember that just because we have a philosophy in the
>>> NFB, that doesn't mean that everyone is even aware of it.  It is
>>> completely
>>> normal for members of the public to not understand what we believe or
>>> even
>>>
>>> know about it.  Also, the public, in my experience, has more trouble
>>> understanding blind people with some vision than those of us who are
>>> totally blind.  They do think that the more vision one has the better
>>> off
>>>
>>> one is.  What
>>> I have seen is that sometimes it is harder for people with low vision
>>> than
>>>
>>> it is for me because they are so often told and almost forced to
>>> struggle
>>>
>>> with the
>>> little vision they have rather than to learn how to do things other
>>> ways.
>>>
>>> Often the public assumes that "legally blind" means no vision so when
>>> they
>>>
>>> meet
>>> someone who can obviously see a little, they are sometimes even a little
>>> suspicious.  All of this is pretty normal.  Our philosophy is something
>>> we
>>>
>>> try to
>>> teach people, it is not something everyone knows already.
>>>
>>> How you handle a particular incident is something only you can
>>> determine.
>>>
>>> However, how each of us deals with the public does affect all of us to
>>> some
>>> degree.  Just because someone decides they are not going to represent
>>> the
>>>
>>> blind doesn't stop them from doing just that because the public
>>> determines
>>> how they get their information not each of us.  We all need to keep
>>> working to change this, but it is what it is.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Steve Jacobson\
>>>
>>>>On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Elizabeth Mohnke
>>>><lizmohnke at hotmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for the responses thus far. However, how do I
>>>>> even answer a question that I really do not know how to answer myself?
>>>>> Why
>>>>> should I spend five minutes trying to stumble through some sort of
>>>>> answer
>>>>> with a stranger I am most likely never going to see again? I do not
>>>>> know
>>>>> why strangers are asking me if I am blind or legally blind except to
>>>>> figure
>>>>> out how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>
>>>>> But I am just wondering what difference that really makes when the NFB
>>>>> teaches that blind people are really no different than sighted people,
>>>>> and
>>>>> with the right tools and attitudes, we can do pretty much anything
>>>>> that
>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> sighted person can do. If these beliefs are true, then what difference
>>>>> does
>>>>> it make as to how much I can see or not see.
>>>>>
>>>>> It just seems to me that when people ask me these questions they are
>>>>> trying to imply that I must have some sight because how could a person
>>>>> be
>>>>> able to function without any sight. It is almost like people are
>>>>> trying
>>>>>
>>>>> to
>>>>> tell me that the more eyesight a person has the better off they are in
>>>>> life. How exactly am I suppose to deal with these kinds of questions
>>>>> when
>>>>> my encounter with these people is rather brief, and I would rather not
>>>>> deal
>>>>> with what seems to me like some form of idiotic line of thinking?
>>>>>
>>>>> What exactly should I say to these people if what I am saying is the
>>>>> wrong
>>>>> thing, and I really do not know how to briefly describe what I can and
>>>>> cannot see, or even wish to describe it in the first place? I would
>>>>> give
>>>>>
>>>>> a
>>>>> specific example of how I encountered this situation from the other
>>>>> day,
>>>>> but I am afraid it would only spear the conversation away from the
>>>>> real
>>>>> heart of the issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Again, this is just something I have been struggling with lately.  So
>>>>> I
>>>>> was just interested in how other people deal with these kinds of
>>>>> questions
>>>>> from other people in their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
Kaiti