[nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille

Sat Feb 2 20:17:30 UTC 2013

Good morning, Misty,

Actually, Misty, I enjoy a mixed bag of readers, believing a strand 
of the otherwise palid  RFB experience, something a little more 
interesting because the RFB experience can get  pretty borring, as 
audio books go.Misty Dawn Bradley wrote:
>Hi,
>I agree with you about Learning Ally. It would be nice to get 
>textbooks in Braille, and then it would be more equal, since sighted 
>people read in print and can skim the chapters. Also, Learning Ally 
>books are rather frustrating to read due to the change of the 
>readers' voices every few pages, so you have to get used to a new 
>voice for every few pages you listen to.
>I agree that audio is more cost-effective and less bulky, but it 
>would be nice to actually be able to read a Braille textbook in the 
>same way that a sighted person would read a print textbook, and it 
>would be more efficient for in-class discussions and assignments as 
>well, because you don't have to try to listen to the book while also 
>trying to listen to the teacher or your fellow classmates. .
>Thanks,
>Misty
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" <JLester8462 at pccua.edu>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 11:30 AM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>
>
>>Braille is an interesting topic!
>>I've been saying on this list, that without Braille, we will fail!
>>It couldn't be anymore true than it is now, (especially for me in college.)
>>I listened to my textbook on Learning Ally, yesterday.
>>Those chapters are so long!
>>Also, why do they give descriptions of the figures?
>>I don't need all of that!
>>I'd appreciate it if they'd just read the chapters' content and 
>>leave out all of the descriptions, or else just put the books into 
>>Braille for the blind, and save the audio for those with dyslexia.
>>With Braille, I could just scan through the chapter and read what I 
>>need to know in minutes, but when I listen, it takes hours!
>>That's not efficient at all!
>>We need more Braille, and we need more blind children learning it, 
>>as opposed to audio!
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>________________________________________
>>From: nabs-l [nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] on behalf of Arielle 
>>Silverman [arielle71 at gmail.com]
>>Sent: Friday, February 01, 2013 10:15 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>
>>Hi all,
>>The problem with the 10% figure is that the other 90% includes a good
>>portion of kids who are classified as "nonreaders" which I assume
>>means they aren't reading at all due to severe cognitive disabilities
>>that often come with blindness. The 90% non-Braille readers also
>>includes a fair proportion of kids who learn print. Although plenty of
>>kids are learning print who should be learning Braille because their
>>vision is unreliable, at least the kids learning print are learning
>>how letters fit together, spelling, grammar etc. I believe the
>>proportion of kids classified as "audio readers" is actually more like
>>15%. So if we eliminate all the kids who aren't taught to read at all
>>because of cognitive disabilities, the percentage learning Braille is
>>probably a lot higher than 10%. Nonetheless, it's still not high
>>enough in my opinion, and we don't know if some of the kids classified
>>as "nonreaders" really should be Braille readers.
>>Arielle
>>
>>On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Ari,
>>>
>>>Yeah, only about 10% of blind or visually impaired kids are receiving
>>>braille instruction in schools.  There has been a campaign going on
>>>for several years to raise that number, but the main problem, even
>>>more so than parents or teachers just not recognizing the need for
>>>braille, is that there is a severe shortage of teachers for the
>>>visually impaired who can teach those skills.  This means that some
>>>areas of the country don' have a braille teacher at all, and if a
>>>child or his or her parents want them to learn braille then they
>>>usually have to find a blind adult or someone else who uses it to
>>>teach them.  In other areas there may be a teacher, but the tvi will
>>>have a very large caseload spread out over multiple districts and
>>>parts of a city.  My county educational service center had 3 braille
>>>teachers and each of them had a cawseload of at least 20 students
>>>spanning from pre-school through high school and spread out across a
>>>large city.  We need more braille teachers really badly.
>>>
>>>Interesting fact: a girl who lives on my dorm floor went to school
>>>with a friend of mine from back home who is also blind.  She is an
>>>intervention specialist major and wants to get a degree to be a tvi
>>>after she gets her undergrad done.  I keep telling her to hurry up and
>>>graduate since we need her in the field ASAP.  :)
>>>
>>>On 2/1/13, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>Hi Ari and all,
>>>>
>>>>I agree as well.  I mainly read electronic books like Sophie said as
>>>>Bookshare is free for students and all and the braille is unlimitted,
>>>>not to mention I can carry several with me at a time wherever I go,
>>>>but every once in a while like over the summer between school years I
>>>>love to read hard copy braille books.  The NLS is great and I'm happy
>>>>that we have that resource available to us, but I wish I could keep
>>>>certain things like the Harry Potter volumes or something.  I agree
>>>>that we should be able to buy them for at least a similar price if not
>>>>te exact same as the print editions, with a margin either way of about
>>>>20 or 25 dollars max.
>>>>
>>>>The thing that makes me really sad are those kids who never learn
>>>>braille because the adults in their lives either don't teache them or
>>>>tell them to just rely on audio because they don't expect them to be
>>>>literate.  Sophie is exactly right that you can't rely on audio or
>>>>technology; in my sophomore year my laptop and BrailleNote totally
>>>>died and I don't know where I would have been for those three months I
>>>>didn't have them if I didn't know how to use a Perkins Brailler.  The
>>>>worst is when there is a kid who's gradually losing vision and the
>>>>parents just push for audio, naively thinking that will solve their
>>>>kid's problems rather than hurt their chances for academic success.
>>>>It's really a shame braille isn't taken full advantage of.  But,
>>>>hopefully NAPUB will fix some of that.  :)
>>>>
>>>>On 2/1/13, Kirt <kirt.crazydude at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>Sophie,
>>>>>That would be a fantastic idea, if our friend Ari actually lived in the
>>>>>United States. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>On Feb 1, 2013, at 5:39 AM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Ari, you know you can get braille books for free from your state
>>>>>>library
>>>>>>for the blind (well, at least I know Louisiana has one) or from the
>>>>>>national library in Utah. That's where I got all my braille books
>>>>>>before
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>sarted using my braillenote. While I'll say that electronic reading is
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>lot more convenient (braille books are so heavy and clunky) I do
>>>>>>appreciate braille. Because electronics can break. I think that's what
>>>>>>a
>>>>>>lot of people don't realize. And if electronics break and you don't
>>>>>>know
>>>>>>as a backup, you're in deep trouble. Audio is no excuse for not
>>>>>>learning
>>>>>>braille. My personal belief is that just as all sighted kids must learn
>>>>>>print, all of usmust learn braille. Sorry for the long rant, but the
>>>>>>bottom line is, I agree with you, Ari. If a print book only costs
>>>>>>$20-30,
>>>>>>braille shouldn't cost that much more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: Ari Damoulakis <aridamoulakis at gmail.com
>>>>>>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>Date sent: Fri, 1 Feb 2013 09:47:47 +0200
>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Can't believe this about braille
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi everyone
>>>>>>I've just seen something that makes me feel quite appalled and sad. I
>>>>>>can't believe how much you guys have to pay simply to get or have a
>>>>>>book in braille? I know that now many people use electronic and audio,
>>>>>>and from what I hear many people don't even learn braille, but I
>>>>>>actually really love braille, I love reading actual braille, and not
>>>>>>just electronic (one line at a time I just can't stand), but paper. I
>>>>>>love to hold a propper braille book, page through it, feel it and read
>>>>>>it, especially for example if it is a book for learning a language or
>>>>>>even a textbook. I know you can listen to your work with jaws etc, but
>>>>>>I often just love actually reading. For me braille is such a  lovely
>>>>>>thing!
>>>>>>Anyway why I am writing is because I find it terrible how much you
>>>>>>guys are paying for braille books, its incredibly sad. I was looking
>>>>>>on the internet for whether there are braille books available to help
>>>>>>me learn some French, and I couldn't believe the prices you guys have
>>>>>>to pay, I saw for example on APH web site a book for 300 or 400
>>>>>>dollars just for the book. I had actually heard of this before, a
>>>>>>friend of mine wanted to find some braille maths books and he couldn't
>>>>>>believe it was nearly 700 dollars, but I put it down to the fact that
>>>>>>maybe it was just because maths is more difficult to do in braille.
>>>>>>But when I saw this I couldn't believe it, even for just normal books
>>>>>>you guys have to actually pay such high prices? I know you have to
>>>>>>maybe pay transcribers and things, but I can't understand why these
>>>>>>organisations can't get electronic files or just scan and print the
>>>>>>books? I'm not talking about complex things like maths that I don't
>>>>>>know if you can scan things like that, but normal books? Here even if
>>>>>>I give a book in to get transcribed, OK it sometimes takes about 6
>>>>>>months or even a year, but I never have to pay such incredible prices
>>>>>>like what you guys are, and if I'm lucky enough to find an electronic
>>>>>>version it costs even less. Frankly, I find it really sad and tragic
>>>>>>and I think I can now understand why many people there just aren't
>>>>>>bothering to learn how to read braille, because what is the point if
>>>>>>you are having to pay such high prices for books? I know you guys have
>>>>>>a great library but what happens if there are books you really want in
>>>>>>braille or would just like to have brailled? If these are the prices
>>>>>>that you are having to pay just for the pleasure of being able to read
>>>>>>1 book in braille this is just so terrible!
>>>>>>Ari
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>>r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Kaiti
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Kaiti
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
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