[nabs-l] The Real World... OH REALLY????

[Littlefield, Tyler]

Ian:
Listserves really need a like button. I agree 1000% with this message, 
though I assume those who are "entitled" will just let it whoosh over 
their heads and those who understand your point are already putting a 
lot of this into practice anyway.

On 11/13/2013 9:35 AM, I. C. Bray wrote:
> To all of whom have posted on this thread.
>
> While we are all involved in various aspects of our blindness skills,
> education, and professional careers, there is something we all have in
> common.  That simple fact is, "We are all different".  I myself have had
> problems in both Public School, in College, and Adult Blindness Training
> Centers.
> Because I am about to speak openly about my feelings, my criticism, and my
> objective opinions as a future educator here, I am not going to indicate
> which schools I attended.
> I will however indicate the fact that I did not attend any "school for the
> Blind".
> Any School for the Blind is designed to develop skills for blind students.
> Regardless of the child's ability, aptitude, or intrests.  These
> institutions are principally to teach Braille, Slate & Stylus, Listening
> Skills, Mobility, and prepare the young students for an eventual High School
> equelevant Education.  All of this is presumptive that the student is
> capable of attaining that High School Education.
> There are thousands of drop outs who come from many demographic conditions
> who are perfectly sighted, motivated, and capable of attaining much more for
> themselves than a GED some 3 to 10 years later.
> I graduated in the top 25% of my School.  There were 556 students in my
> Senior Class that graduated.  My rank was 125.  I went on to Engineering
> School with the full support of my math, physics, and myguidance counselors.
> I had to drop out of Engineering school because of Calculus.  The plain &
> simple truth was that I was not prepared.  I lacked the ability to use
> alternative methods of learning.  Calculus notes were useless because I was
> too busy trying to write down stuff I didn't understand and trying to
> decipher the hyroglyphic nature of a level of Mathematics I did not
> understand the point of.
> Simillarly with Adult Training Schools, there is a point to what they are
> trying to do for you that you ARE NOT GOING TO UNDERSTAND until AFTER YOU
> ARE FINISHED.
> For whatever reason there is apparent entitlement to services just because
> you are afflicted with some drastic or gradual vision impairment is absurd.
> The presumption that it is the School's Fault because can't or won't or
> don't cater to every individual's specific expectation of what they need,
> want, or feel they deserve is also ridiculous.
> Most of the prevailent attitude about Schools for the Blind are correct; The
> education is not up to higher Public Education Standards.  Simillarly,
> Public Schools ( Elementary, Middle, and Secondary ) are required by Federal
> Law to provide EVERY student presented to them a suitable Education.  At
> this point, is up to parents to fight, fight, fight for their student's
> opportunity.  Most of the time, however; this isn't likely to be successful
> because parents are not often aware of their options.  School Systems take
> this fact and use it as a way to avoid spending money they are already short
> on toward the specific needs of a substantially small number of students.
> College is somewhat of an exception, but you tend to have a larger
> population of young adults seeking services from Disability Resource
> Centers.  Here again, unless you have an administration sensitive to the
> importance of Fair and Equal opportunities for all students, you are STILL
> going to find yourself at the mercy of equipment, time, andinsufficient
> training of instructors.
> I can not find the particular demographic that I heard at one time with
> regard to the number of instructors who have attended "Adaptive Curricula"
> seminars, and know that they are required to find some way to modiffy or
> enhance their lessons for  disabled students, and the actual number of those
> who actually do.
> Most rely soley upon the Disability Resource Centers to handle it... which
> usually ends up overloading those Centers greatly.
> Fundamentally, the question becomes, "Who is responsible?".  The truthful
> answer in my not so humble opinion is that it is everyone's responsibility.
>
> When you sign up for a program from an NFB Center, or a Voc. Rehab. Center,
> or aMainstream Educational facility, YOU are responsible for learning the
> material, Jumping through the ridiculousness that often is involved with
> textbook and lecture material inaccessibility, and you ar going to have to
> utilize whatever protest options available until you are so tired of it that
> it seems worthless.
> You must not simply throw your hands up and and give in to the mired-down
> attitudes of those who are probably scared or ashamed that they are
> illequipped to help you.
>
>   ALWAYS take the high road when dealing with people who are supposed to help
> you, and when things go wrong, you seek appointments with Department Heads,
> University Provosts, and Presidents.  When those meetings fail, you go to
> the Accredidation boards, the Federal Board of Education where funding comes
> from and you write letters... and letters... and letters... and you save
> coppies of every one, and every response you receive.   Eventually, you have
> 80 pounds of paper to take to a lawyer who has the know how and the desire
> to make lots of money and you get things worked out.
> Does this suck?  YES it does.  Is there another way around?  Yes there is,
> but no one ever thinks about it until it's way too late.
> Make sure that YOU as a consummer / student are not being lazy.  Insist upon
> having your instructors explain verbally, things that you are not able to
> see.  Remain professional, and polite at all times.  Get a friend to take
> pictures so someone can describe them later.  When a professor tells you you
> are not allowed to record his lectures, ignore HIM.  He cannot prevent it.
> If you are reprimanded for taking matters into your own hands, by that
> Professor, You report him immediately to the Department Head, or Provost.
> Keep in mind that you may be wrong, but if you do not bring light to the
> situation, then nothing gets seen by sighted people.  YOU have to be that
> useless flashlight for the sighted community.
> Take your mobility lessons seriously-- regardless of how inept you think
> your instructor is.
> Have friends come out to watch you on your lessons-- I guarantee instructors
> attitudes change.
> Don't think that you will never use or need Braille.  That is a ridiculous
> notion.  You may one day need it.
> Become a nerd.  Theese days, Geek is Sheek.  It is the Information Age!  The
> more you know the better off you are.  Do not become lazy, read ahead in
> your texts.  Know what the teacher is going to tell you before you hear it.
> Spend every minute you have avoiding homework.  Get it done early, and check
> it over it until you know it's right.
> Forcde your fellow students to work just as hard as you do.  Ask questions!!
> Answer them when you're pretty sure you know the answer.  Even if you are
> wrong, it is the simple fact that you appear to be invested and engaged in
> your learning that will help you succeed.
> Irrespective of whatever "training school" you go to, ultimately, you are
> responsible for what happens to you.
> Cheers,
> Ian  C. Bray
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bridget Walker" <bridgetawalker13 at aol.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
>
>
> : Hi Katy,
> :
> : I agree with Minh it is down right wrong to ship a student off to a school
> for the blind because they refuse to adapt the curriculum but that is just
> what happened to me. Do I know it's down right illegal? Absolutely, as a
> future educator I will never let something like this happen. People always
> ask me if I would teach at a school for the blind because for some reason
> they think its easier. I always say no. We need more teachers who are blind
> setting an example in the public school.
> : One down side to the training centers and schools for the blind I feel
> misleads the public is that people who are blind need to be in their own
> little world. A person without sleight can't function without all these
> modifications when we all know that we just use some minor adaptations. It's
> a big difference. In fact I know after training I threw some of my
> techniques aside after I got the hang of things and function just as any
> other person. I'm sure most everyone on this list is the same.
> :
> : Bridget
> :
> : Sent from my iPad
> :
> : On Nov 12, 2013, at 2:18 PM, Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> :
> : > Bridget,
> : >
> : > It is great that you had a good experience at your school for the
> : > blind, but this is a much broader discussion with people across the
> : > country speaking about what they've seen from various schools.  Of
> : > course, like everything else, schools for the blind are certainly not
> : > created equal, and some are better than others.  It sounds like you
> : > happened to be in one of the better ones.  I have heard horror stories
> : > from people at several state schools, and even know older people who
> : > are very sad about the decline in quality they have seen in there
> : > almamaders.  Apparently, back in the day OSSB was really good, and now
> : > for the most part it's something that parents try to avoid because
> : > independence is not fostered there and expectations are very low.  I
> : > don't know what you were referring to when you said mainstreamed kids
> : > are exempt from taking things like foreign language; in Ohio at least,
> : > it is a state requirement that all students take at least two years of
> : > a foreign language in order to graduate.  I do know of one blind
> : > person who somehow weasled out of the requirement, but I know plenty
> : > more who are well-versed in conversational Spanish because they've
> : > taken it for years.  I took 3 myself, and even was allowed to be in
> : > the class that started it a year early; I did well enough to qualify
> : > for AP, but the course conflicted with another AP class that I could
> : > apply towards my major so I took it to save time in college.
> : >
> : > Minh commented on something that I missed before, and her comment made
> : > me cringe because she was right.  In reference to school districts
> : > sending kids off to the school for the blind to get them out of their
> : > hair, I'll add that in addition to what Minh said that that is
> : > illegal, and any school district that does that can and should be
> : > served with court papers for an ADA suit because that is blatant
> : > descrimination.
> : >
> : > On 11/12/13, Beth Taurasi <denverqueen1107 at comcast.net> wrote:
> : >> On 11/11/2013 2:15 PM, Kaiti Shelton wrote:
> : >>> Hi all,
> : >>>
> : >>> I will admit upfront that I did not read this entire thread, as I am
> : >>> trying to type a quick reply between classes, but here is what my
> : >>> parents thought and what I believe as well.
> : >>>
> : >>> I'm not in any way knocking training centers; I think they're great
> : >>> for those who need or prefer to get the training they need in that
> : >>> manner.  I think that choice is totally subjective to the individual
> : >>> person.
> : >>>
> : >>> However, in terms of schools for the blind, I have always been
> : >>> thurroughly confused as to their purpose.  Like others I've talked to,
> : >>> going to the school for the blind was a bad thing---a threat my mom
> : >>> used to kick me into gear as a child.  If I didn't want to do my
> : >>> homework, she'd threaten to send me to the Ohio State School for the
> : >>> Blind, where people would make me do it, and I wouldn't get the choice
> : >>> of doing it right after school or later before bed.  My mom also
> : >>> wanted to instill the idea that I could be independent in me at a very
> : >>> early age, so the idea of having someone else be so custodial over me
> : >>> made me instantly do whatever it was that I didn't want to do at the
> : >>> time.
> : >>>
> : >>> In reality, my parents thought very briefly about sending me to the
> : >>> state school when I was young, but a blind woman they consulted on the
> : >>> matter said I was too bright for it.  I have the impression that most
> : >>> schools for the blind provide sub-par academics, and while a much
> : >>> larger portion of their student bodies have multiple disabilities in
> : >>> addition to blindness, my parents did not want that to hold me back
> : >>> from reaching my potential.  So, they enrolled me in my local
> : >>> elementary school, and kept me in the public school system from
> : >>> pre-school to graduation.  From what I've seen and heard this is the
> : >>> case for an ever increasing number of blind students, who are capable
> : >>> of doing the same work---even being labeled as gifted and going on to
> : >>> be honors and AP students in high school.  Some of these kids do not
> : >>> have the opportunities to do AP courses at schools for the blind, and
> : >>> miss out on time and money-saving opportunities for college in the
> : >>> process.
> : >>>
> : >>> I disagree that going to a school for the blind hinders one's ability
> : >>> to get involved in extracurriculars, even when you specifically talk
> : >>> about sports.  My parents found non-profit organizations which hosted
> : >>> sporting events for kids with disabilities and they worked out fine
> : >>> for me.  Top Soccer was one I and a few friends of mine participated
> : >>> in, and I did Special Olympics swimming when I was in middle school
> : >>> too.  I think the advantage of doing sports through these
> : >>> organizations rather than as a student at a school for the blind is
> : >>> that you gain perspective on people with other disabilities; one of my
> : >>> best friends in soccer was a boy who used a walker, and we became a
> : >>> tag team on the field.  My job was to find the ball and get it down
> : >>> field, then I would pass it to him and he'd take shots at the goal.
> : >>> So, it was a nice way for us to learn that in spite of our
> : >>> disabilities, we could still be successful, probably the design of our
> : >>> parents.  I also getting really mad at a kid on the same team who was
> : >>> the coach's son, because he would always push me down for what I
> : >>> thought was no apparent reason.  It took me a while to understand that
> : >>> he wasn't doing it to be mean or that he really couldn't help it, but
> : >>> once I got it I was able to understand him and others like him better.
> : >>>  Even after I stopped participating in sports specifically set up for
> : >>> kids with disabilities to participate, I still found activities to do
> : >>> at school.  I was a member of the Academic Quiz Team, the drama club
> : >>> and in the cast of a Shakespeare play, and even did marching band
> : >>> without assistance.  I don't think you should expect adaptations or
> : >>> modifications to be provided for you like they are at the schools for
> : >>> the blind, and doing these things while taking a trial and error
> : >>> approach to finding ways to do them as well as sighted classmates, is
> : >>> one of the best ways to learn how to do it with other things in the
> : >>> future.  Example, in quiz team I got my study packets in braille, and
> : >>> read books on subjects that other kids weren't as familiar on, like
> : >>> Genetics, Music History, and Anatomy to make up for the other subjects
> : >>> I didn't have as much access to.  This worked out really well in cases
> : >>> when the category was, "Composers from the 1600s," or "Anatomy of the
> : >>> eye."  In marching band I worked with my director to come up with a
> : >>> way for me to read the field diagrams, which to my knowledge is a
> : >>> totally original system based on what my needs were and the solutions
> : >>> we came up with to work.
> : >>>
> : >>> I also think it is the responsibility of the parents to do a lot of
> :>>> the training for their child.  I know my parents did it for me, and
> : >>> although I resisted at times I'm thankful for what they did to help me
> : >>> learn to be independent.  On that same note, I disagree with the claim
> : >>> that blind people cannot teach themselves how to do things, as I
> : >>> believe there should come a point where mom and dad should step back,
> : >>> and you should have the confidence in your abilities to try to learn
> : >>> to do things yourself.  That is what I'm doing now with cooking, and I
> : >>> love how I'm teaching myself.  Have I burned things?  Yes.  Have I had
> : >>> to put meat back on the stove to cook it a little longer because I
> : >>> misjudged how cooked it really was?  Yes, but it's through experience
> : >>> that we learn, and sometimes doing things ourselves is in our own
> : >>> favor.  In the cooking vein, I've asked my mom to teach me before, but
> : >>> she's always been busy, or when we have cooked she usually has ended
> : >>> up taking over.  She also has a fear of me getting burned, so when I
> : >>> got to college and wanted to make a burger, I didn't let the fact that
> : >>> my mother never taught me hold me back from getting what I wanted,
> : >>> even if my first attempt was not perfect.  Different parents will
> : >>> teach their blind children different things, and sometimes they have
> : >>> one thing they don't do as well as others in that area.  When those
> : >>> weak areas become apparent and one has the resources and capability to
> : >>> teach themself to make up for it, I think they should because
> : >>> ultimately it is their independence that is effected.
> : >>>
> : >>> I do not regret my parents decision to put me in public school,
> : >>> because in spite of the rough patches where I didn't have a textbook
> : >>> for my last year of Spanish, or my parents were duking it out in an
> : >>> IEP meeting, I developed self-advocacy, independence, and
> : >>> communication skills which are serving me well in college an hour away
> : >>> from my family.  Even in cooking I am becoming more self-sufficient,
> : >>> and I'm not afraid to figure things out as I go, problem-solve, and
> : >>> make them work.  That, I think, is a skill that is lacking at the
> : >>> schools of the blind since the staff is much more custodial.  I could
> : >>> be wrong there, but that's what I've seen from my state school at
> : >>> least.
> : >>>
> : >>> Just my thoughts.
> : >>> On 11/11/13, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> : >>>> RJ,
> : >>>> Your friend may also be able to speak to the director of whichever
> : >>>> center
> : >>>> she would like to attend, and arrangements may be able to be made for
> her
> : >>>> to
> : >>>>
> : >>>> bring her child with her. This probably would not work in a dormitory
> : >>>> setting, but since the NFB centers use apartments instead of
> : >>>> dormitories,
> : >>>> sometimes, it can be worked out for a parent to bring their child to
> : >>>> stay
> : >>>> with them in the apartment while they attend the center. Your friend
> may
> : >>>> have to work out child care or after school care for the child while
> she
> : >>>> is
> : >>>>
> : >>>> attending center classes during the day, but the director of the
> center
> : >>>> may
> : >>>>
> : >>>> be able to refer her to resources she can use for that or work with
> her
> : >>>> on
> : >>>> that aspect so she will be able to finish her training successfully.
> : >>>> I am currently going through this myself, as I am a single mother,
> but
> : >>>> the
> : >>>> director has been willing to allow me to bring my child and also help
> me
> : >>>> work out the child care situation so that I will have the opportunity
> to
> : >>>> attend the center and get the training I need. I am planning to
> attend
> : >>>> next
> : >>>>
> : >>>> year, so I am not there yet, but the director has been very open to
> me
> : >>>> bringing my child and has assured me that we will work everything out
> so
> : >>>> I
> : >>>> can attend. I am just in the process of getting VR in my state to
> allow
> : >>>> me
> : >>>> to go. The one I am trying to attend is the Colorado Center, but your
> : >>>> friend
> : >>>>
> : >>>> may be able to discuss her situation with any of the directors of any
> of
> : >>>> the
> : >>>>
> : >>>> centers she would like to attend, and they will probably work with
> her
> : >>>> on
> : >>>> it.
> : >>>> Thanks,
> : >>>> Misty
> : >>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>> -----Original Message-----
> : >>>> From: Steve Jacobson
> : >>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:44 PM
> : >>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> : >>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> : >>>>
> : >>>> RJ,
> : >>>>
> : >>>> It is really hard to know what is going to work in an individual case
> : >>>> such
> : >>>> as that of your friend.  In general,
> : >>>> though, one really has to weigh what learning certain skills well
> might
> : >>>> mean
> : >>>>
> : >>>> for bringing up a child in the long
> : >>>> run.  I believe, for example, that it is pretty hard to become a
> : >>>> confident
> : >>>> independent traveler without putting in
> : >>>> some serious time learning and experiencing.  If one is not a
> confident
> : >>>> traveler, for example, one is going to
> : >>>> find it more difficult to get one's child where that child needs to
> be,
> : >>>> or
> : >>>> to be there for that child.  Your
> : >>>> friend may not have had any options in terms of family who could take
> : >>>> care
> : >>>> of the child, and there could be other
> : >>>> considerations, but to simply state that one can't leave one's child
> to
> : >>>> take
> : >>>>
> : >>>> training seems very short-sighted to
> : >>>> me, and I am a parent so I am not unfamiliar with the dilema.
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Best regards,
> : >>>>
> : >>>> Steve Jacobson
> : >>>>
> : >>>> On Mon, 11 Nov 2013 12:05:28 -0500, RJ Sandefur wrote:
> : >>>>
> : >>>>> Men, Thank you for that point. My friend Rohanda went blind four
> years
> : >>>>> ago.
> : >>>>> Her daughter is Ten years old. Our ehab agency wanted to send her to
> a
> : >>>>> training center. She doesn't want to leave her child. RJ
> : >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> : >>>>> From: "minh ha" <minh.ha927 at gmail.com>
> : >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> : >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> : >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 12:33 AM
> : >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Training centers not the real world
> : >>>>
> : >>>>> All the proponents of training centers, NFB or otherwise keep saying
> : >>>>> how going to one will give blind individuals the skills they need to
> : >>>>> gain employment or to be successful. I'm just wondering how these
> : >>>>> success stories are measured? Do the majority of graduates gain
> : >>>>> employment afterwards because of their new found independence skills
> : >>>>> and are these numbers higher than those that do not attend training
> : >>>>> centers? Maybe it's different for me because I had vision for the
> : >>>>> first few years of my life, but all the skills that I've acquired
> over
> : >>>>> the years, I learned from my family and friends. I remember growing
> : >>>>> up, cooking was one of the activities that my best friend and I
> : >>>>> experimented together; she didn't know cooking skills either so we
> : >>>>> played around in the kitchen and taught ourselves how to use a
> stove,
> : >>>>> etc. I think we place too much responsibility on others--if I want
> to
> : >>>>> learn something, I teach myself or I ask someone who knows it to
> teach
> : >>>>> me. Furthermore, I can't see myself taking 6-9 months to essentially
> : >>>>> remove myself from society to focus on blindness skills so I can
> gain
> : >>>>> employment. I have had many internships and opportunities in college
> : >>>>> because I actually go out there and network and present myself to
> : >>>>> potential employers. My point is experience is the best teacher--I
> can
> : >>>>> learn all the independence skills I need at a center, but it's not
> : >>>>> going to do me any good without the experience.
> : >>>>> Minh
> : >>>>> On 11/10/13, Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com> wrote:
> : >>>>>> Hi all,
> : >>>>>>  good points thus far, and great discussion.
> : >>>>>>   The idea of schools for the blind (at least as I understand them)
> : >>>>>> is
> : >>>>> that
> : >>>>>> students in these  schools may get  the proper instruction in
> skills
> : >>>>>> that
> : >>>>>> would allow them to be  as successful in the classroom as their
> : >>>>> classmates.
> : >>>>>> They may also benefit from gaining access to sports that are
> adapted
> : >>>>>> for
> : >>>>> the
> : >>>>>> blind where in the public school setting these things are not
> always
> : >>>>> readily
> : >>>>>> available .
> : >>>>>>   In the training center environment, you are learning skills that
> : >>>>>> will
> : >>>>> help
> : >>>>>> you   become confident and competent enough to  compete and
> succeed
> : >>>>>> in
> : >>>>> the
> : >>>>>> world.  in our NFB training centers, we learn the skills  that
> enable
> : >>>>>> us
> : >>>>> to
> : >>>>>>   be successful and  gain the attitude and belief  that not only
> can
> : >>>>>> we
> : >>>>>> lead  productive  successful, and meaningful lives,  but that  this
> : >>>>>> should
> : >>>>>> be the exact expectation we should have for ourselves.
> : >>>>>>  So, while the implication one might get is that such learning
> : >>>>> environments
> : >>>>>> shelter  people  from the  real world , it is my view that
> generally
> : >>>>>> speaking they can serve to help you be prepared  for that  real
> world
> : >>>>>> in
> : >>>>> a
> : >>>>>> way that matriculating through mainstream schooling might leave
> you
> : >>>>>> otherwise ill equipped to do.
> : >>>>>>    Darian
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>>
> : >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> : >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> : >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> : >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> : >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> : >>>>>> nabs-l:
> : >>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
> : >>>>
> : >>>>> --
> : >>>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
> dusty
> : >>>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> : >>>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> : >>>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> : >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> : >>>>
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> : >>>>
> : >>>>
> : >>>> _______________________________________________
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> : >>>>
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> : >> Hi, Misty and all,
> : >> St. Augustine's School for the Blind is indeed too custodial for me and
> : >> too conservative for others.  I met my love and life at the Colorado
> : >> Center for the Blind, and it's really a nice thing for both of us, but
> : >> then a sighted person tried to reteach the skills because the things
> : >> were not clean enough.  Like the shower or toilet. I was cleaning, and
> : >> she would judge why or what was clean. I ended up saying, "Forget it.
> : >> This is not going to work." I shouldn't have done it, but I"m being
> : >> alienated by others because I have long term care. I already knew I was
> : >> diagnosed with bipolar, and this oculd be a problem. Blake and I are
> : >> trying to work something out sohe can work and so can I, but workplaces
> : >> are wary of having blind and something else people in them, so Idk why
> I
> : >> went to CCB in the first place, but then as I continue to cook for
> : >> myself, yes, I realize it's the best choice I made. However, my parents
> : >> still have a legal situation to work out, and they still try to refuse
> : >> to get to know the person I wish tospend my life with, and so on.  They
> : >> still believe the thoughts and attitudes that their baby girl is
> : >> property, not a person. I can't be my own person in their mind, and
> it's
> : >> really hard for me to understand why.  Training centers can't possibly
> : >> be a real world thing because in hick town Florida, it's definitely not
> : >> real. People take your rights from you as a disabled person, and
> because
> : >> of that, I've been more anxious about skills than others, and I'd
> rather
> : >> have someone clean the place up than have a sighted person walk in and
> : >> say, "This place is filthy/not clean enough."
> : >> Beth
> : >>
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> : >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
> : >
> : >
> : > --
> : > Kaiti
> : >
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> :
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>
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-- 
Take care,
Ty
http://tds-solutions.net
He that will not reason is a bigot; he that cannot reason is a fool; he that dares not reason is a slave.