[nagdu] Lines in the sand?

[Tamara Smith-Kinney]

Jenine,

On the serious side, I agree with you about control being a big factor in
whether a guide dog team should be denied access, at least for lesser
infractions.  Even the most perfect guide dogs have their off days (or so I
surmise), but if the handler is aware and dealing with the issue, then I
would consider it under control.  Some people's version of "dealing with the
issue" is different from mine, however, since I use a positive training
model and deal with unwanted behaviors a bit differently than folks who
believe a harsh voice and sharp leash correction -- or even hitting -- is
the only way to go.  Not that those methods are wrong, if that's how the dog
is trained and how you are accustomed to dealing with unwanted behaviors.
I'm just pointing out that "dealing with" a behavior can vary by definition.

So the minor sins I might overlook would be sniffing, casual greeting, small
positioning erros, stuff like that.  Even a bit of arguing about going under
the table and lying down our of the way, so long as the dog does end up out
of the way.

Major infractions:  Trash diving; unrestrained scavenging (I still have to
keep a rein on Mitzi sometimes there); unwelcome and intrusive greeting of
others (Mitzi picks dog people for flirting with, so she ends up being much
too welcome in her greeting); table skimming in restaurants; barking and/or
growling; jumping on people or furniture; deastructin of people or
furniture; inappropriate bodily functions; running wild; getting in the way
of normal traffic flow; and probably a few others.  Mitzi hasn't pulled
every single one of those, but I learned many, many things to watch out for
during her socialization and training.  Some of them were obvious from the
get-go, of course; Mitzi taught me all sorts of new sins to be neurotic
about.  /grin/

As for grooming...  I'm thinking about that one and picturing extremes
without coming to a conclusion about where the happy medium lies.  If it
looks -- and smells! -- like it just came in off the farm, leave it in the
pickup.  /smile/  With Mitzi, I definitely watch her, um, personal areas.
She carries that bobbed tail or hers in the upright position at all times,
so any leftovers there are plaing for all to see.  Once she outgrew her
tummy issues, it became less of a problem, but I still am sure to wash back
there before we go out to anywhere but the dog park.  I've taken to giving
her a good surface wash before we go out, too, to make sure she looks clean.
Unless we're in a real worry hurry and I just ask DD.  I'm afraid I'm guilty
of falling behind in my scheduled daily brushing, So the going over with a
wet washcloth compensates.

I would say that massive shedding is uncool, more in some venues than
others.  Would I let a dog shed three weeks worth of loose undercoat all
over my office just because it's a service animal?  I would rather not;
unless there is some good reason the handler has not been able to maintain
brushing (like a broken arm or something).  Visible old dirt and grime would
be another no-no; I think I would at least ask the handler to clean their
dog and try again (if that's possible).  Smelling like the great outdoors or
like 3 or 4 dirty dogs in one would be another reason I might ask the
handler to please do better.  As opposed to just normal doggy smell.  Foul
breath would be a big turn off, if it were a regular occurrence and it was
obvious nothing were being done about it.

Those are interesting questions.  I'm not sure how informative my
off-the-top of my head answers are, but it will be good fodder for thought
for a few days.  /smile/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:29 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] Lines in the sand?

Dan makes some good points about us maybe being too judgmental. I'd counter
that with my own personal attitude that I'm not so much being openly
judgmental as trying to set and maintain high standards, but that only
really goes for myself and my dog. 

So, I'll pose this question to everyone, again appreciating the intelligent
discussion here. 

What behavior in a dog who is part of a working team would you deem
unacceptable? What offenses might cause you as a business owner to ask
someone to remove his or her dog? 

I think for me, it's about control. If someone is really trying to control a
dog with undesirable behaviors like barking or scavenging, I'm much more
likely to be lenient, but if the person seems oblivious or is clearly
ignoring the behaviors, it tends to get a bit old. 

One of my big buttons is dogs who are allowed to roam around places of
business. One lady I know has a very bad habit of, once comfortable in a
place, i.e., after walking in the door, of turning her dog loose to roam
around while she looks at things or talks to people. When she used to visit
my office at my last job, I had to ask that the dog stay on leash with her
as he made a beeline for my trash can. The next time I saw him, he was
wearing a basket muzzle and again allowed to roam freely because with said
muzzle he couldn't get into things. <sigh> 

The one thing I am pretty annoyed by in terms of the public's reaction to us
is the whole grooming issue. People don't generally know what a well groomed
dog is and all sorts of accusations come up about dogs not being groomed
well, smelling, being dirty and shedding. 

I'll admit to being a neat freak when it comes to my dogs and a grooming
fanatic. That doesn't mean everyone else is and it doesn't mean that every
dog who isn't ready for the West Minster show ring is filthy and unkempt. 

I've seen a number of guide dogs who could use maybe a good brush or bath or
who could have some skin  issues looked into by their vet, sure, but saying
they rose to the level of denial of access is a bit much. 

I've also heard of one denial case that really brings the grooming point
home. Someone years ago, before the ADA even, was told to leave a fast food
place because her dog was dirty and offensive. She'd just come in from a
pouring rain storm. Everyone else coming in behind her was just as wet. She
fought the denial and won under state law. 

My point? There are some things I think we as handlers can hold each other
to in terms of acceptable public behavior and there are some things
perceived as unacceptable by others that we as handlers can band together to
support and explain. My retort anymore is "Would you rather have my dog or
some of the kids I've seen in here?" 

 Jenine Stanley
jeninems at wowway.com


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