[nagdu] Update on Eye Dog Foundation puppy raiser lawsuit
Anna Thomasson
anna.thomasson at towersperrin.com
Thu Jun 25 19:08:19 UTC 2009
Some good news. Some of you may be aware that Eye Dog Foundation sued 24
puppy raisers and staff in December because we would not return our dogs to
the Foundation. We did so because there was no trainer on staff and the
Foundation has not been placing dogs, and in fact has kept dogs kenneled
for months long after previous trainers had recommended their release. 17
of 24 puppy raiser have returned their dogs under extreme pressure and
because they did not feel the could fight this very well-funded school. So
far we have had two hearings for replevin - to decide where the 7 remaining
dogs stay while this is resolved. At both hearings - over 30 people showed
up in support, all wearing white shirts to symbolize white canes. Two
guide dogs users (waiting for dogs) have also joined us. Today's hearing
was continued (aka postponed) for another month because we defendants
challenged their right to sue us in Arizona since they are a California
organization. While the Eye Dog Foundation scrambles to file for a license
to do business in Arizona, we puppy raisers and supporters are actively
campaigning for our state to deny them that right.
BIG THANKS to NFB (Dan Frye) for writing the December Braille Monitor
article which thoroughly summarizes many of the facts and issue surrounding
this case. It has helped to educate our many supporters. As guide dog
users, I just wanted you to know that here in Arizona, you have dozens of
passionate advocates and we are honored to do what we can to make dogs
available to be trained as your partners.
I monitor this list daily and appreciate being able to learn more about
issues related to guide dogs. Attached is a link to the comprehensive
Braille Monitor article.
http://www.nfb.org/images/nfb/Publications/bm/bm08/bm0811/bm081103.htm
Anna Thomasson
Puppy raiser of Cabo, Jackson and Nisha
Anna C. Thomasson
Principal, Towers Perrin
anna.thomasson at towersperrin.com
Phoenix: 602-553-1087
Los Angeles: 310-551-5854
Facsimile: 310-789-5909
To
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fbnet.org nagdu Digest, Vol 51, Issue 27
06/25/2009
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Do's and Don't's (Tamara Smith-Kinney)
2. Re: can you help with NAGDU table in exhibit hall?
(JULIE PHILLIPSON)
3. message regarding what to PAC for Convention (Scott C. LaBarre)
4. Re: Missing guide dog found struck by car
(Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS))
5. Re: TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison (Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS))
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:04:18 -0700
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Do's and Don't's
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <19E4B690F8D94F3DAACF95BE77EE08EC at tamarap28z7gyf>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Yup! If all else fails, blame the dog. /grin/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Garry and Joy Relton
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:25 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Do's and Don't's
Tami,
I think it only proves what you and I may have suspected all along. We are
human. Of course, the dogs are too but their rate of error tends to be less
than ours and, since they can't speak in their own defense, we two legged
humans tend to find it easier to blame them when things don't go as they
should, or as we think that they should.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:50 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Do's and Don't's
Joy,
Me, too! It's getting more automatic to follow my dog, but every now and
then I catch myself thinking that I'm the one who knows which way to go...
I've had a couple of minor boo-boo's because she was distracted, but most
of
my trips and bumps are entirely my doing. You'd think I would learn.
/grin/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Garry and Joy Relton
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:26 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Do's and Don't's
Sorry guys I didn't notice that my cursor was bouncing around there and
that my spell check didn't understand.
I meant to say that this wasn't comparing apples to apples. Since
discipline
and knowing one's place in the hierarchy isn't necessarily related to the
way in which a dog guides. From my experience people who are run into
things, including myself, have this happen primarily because of one of two
things. Either the dog is distracted and doesn't see the obstacle, or the
person isn't following the dog's guidance or has begun to take over that
role.
Joy with Belle
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Garry and Joy Relton
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:03 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Do's and Don't's
Well,
I think that there are extremes to everything. But I'm sure that your
example is comparing apples. Good behavior and disciples ensure that the
dog
is listening to you but it doesn't help you listen to them. In my
experience
a good share of the time when the dog bumps someone into something it's for
one of two reasons. One the dog is distracted, or two, the person isn't
following his/her dog. and apples.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Dan Weiner
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:19 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Do's and Don't's
Good for you, Katrin.
I tend to share your way of looking at the dog-human relationship. I've
never been much of a believer in the Pack theory when it comes to guide
dogs
and their relationship to us. I once asked a trainer what she thought of
this as far as us being the alpha dog. She said that she believes it's
more
that we're the leader because the dog respects us and knows what to expect
and trusts us, not because we crack the whip so to speak and we're the
dominant one.
A devil's advocate question for those of you who are really strict about
obedience, not having the dog on the bed, etc...of course, I have no
problem
with what you do with your dogs, but I wonder: Does all of this stuff make
your dog a better guide dog? It may make your pup very acceptable and
well-mannered in public and I'm not criticizing that. I ask because over
the
years I've met some handlers who are really strict with obedience and all
that and the dogs still were pulling them, bumping them in to things, etc.
I
honestly don't see obedience relating to good guide work.
I'm just curious about people's thoughts.
For me, the eimportant thing is how my dog guides me and if I'm safe, with
that I have a no-nonsense approach. If my dogs blow a curb, we rework it
and make sure they know that they must stop at curbs and steps, take me
straight across streets, not bump me in to obstacles, etc.
Cordially,
Dan W. and the Carter Hound
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Katrin Andberg
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:05 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Do's and Don't's
"In dog society, the
dominant dog gets the best food and choice of best sleeping place."
Actually that is very much not true, in dog society, studies and research
has shown dog packs are scavengers and the dominant dog generally eats
whatever he or she can find, same as all the other dogs, but when it comes
to family hierarchy (such as in a wolf pack) the dominant animal takes the
1st bite then eats last, taking the pickings after everyone else in the
family pack has eaten.
That philosophy is what us humans believed was the way it worked since that
is how we tend to work, but in reality it is false. Plus dogs don't truly
view us in the same 'dominance hierarchy' as they do other dogs. The whole
dominance idea with human/dog relationships doesn't hold water. Dogs are
terrific manipulators and trainers and they 'do what works'. So the dog in
question with growling and guarding the bed was actually resource guarding
the bed and 'doing what worked' ie he growled, he got left alone to sleep
on
the bed. It really had nothing to do with if he viewed his owner as a
'pack
leader' or not.
My dogs sleep on the bed and we have no issues on who "owns" the bed. It
is
my bed and I merely allow my dogs to share it. When I say, get off, they
get off. Same as I "own" all of their toys, the couch, their food, my
food,
the house, etc and merely let the dogs borrow everything, it's still mine
in
the end to do what I please with. I'm not the dominant being in their
'pack' (I have 3 dogs, once you have more than 1 dog they form a pack, they
have their own pack hierarchy among themselves), I am a human who they
reside with to be viewed as a human who has special rules because I am not
a
dog, not do I pretend to be one, and they of course know that.
Katrin & James
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:17:38 -0400
From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] can you help with NAGDU table in exhibit hall?
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <89076979748441DCB59EBF32DB797503 at JULIEPHILLIPSON>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
OK I just looked at the schedule and I am available on Saturday until 4:00
PM so I will do some time and on Sunday I could do some time in the
afternoon. Since I will not have Brewster with me I will also do an noon
to
1:45 on Monday or Wednesday but not both. I do have some vision and I can
see bills and my cell phone is 716-566-0567.
Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherrill O'Brien" <sherrill.obrien at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] can you help with NAGDU table in exhibit hall?
> Hello all,
>
> Well, I'm sending you the current volunteer list for the NAGDU table at
> convention. As you can see, we need lots more gungho volunteers!!
Thanks
> very much to those who have stepped up so far. My name is on the list,
> and
> I plan to sign up for another slot, but I'm simply waiting to see where
> I'm
> needed.
>
> By the way, in addition to selling checkwriting guides, which are much
> more
> useful than plain signature guides, and those yummy Pupcakes, we're
> raffling
> off a Victor Stream! Real great stuff, I'd say (grin)
>
> To help with my communications with volunteers, if you would care to
> exchange cell phone numbers with me I'd appreciate it. So, if you wish,
> please include it when you email me off list, and I'll reply with mine.
> Also, if you could indicate whether you have enough vision to identify
> bills
> I'd appreciate it, since when possible I'd like to pair those who cannot
> do
> this with those who can.
>
> Thanks again for helping our division!
> Sherrill
> email sherrill.obrien at verizon.net
>
> Volunteering At the Exhibit Hall Table
>
> Saturday, July 4
> Hall open 9:00 till 5:00
>
> 9:00 till 11:00 Sherrill O'Brien and ...
>
> 11:00 till 1:00 Becky Sabo and ...
>
> 1:00 till 3:00 Margo Downey and ...
>
> 3:00 till 5:00
>
> Sunday, July 5
> Hall open 8:30 till 5:00
>
> 8:30 till 11:00 Joy Relton (my very first volunteer (smile) and ...
>
> 11:00 till 1:00
>
> 1:00 till 3:00
>
> 3:00 till 5:00
>
>
> Monday, July 6
> Hall open 12:00 till 1:45
>
> Tuesday, July 7
> Hall open 12:00 till 1:45 Robert Stigil and ...
>
> Note. The following is a new time slot for the exhibit hall, done
because
> our convention is a day shorter:
>
> Tuesday, July 7
> Hall open 7:00 till 10:00
> You could stay for the whole time, or an hour and a half. By this time,
> even an hour will do! (grin)
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> izon.net
>
>
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 03:30:57 -0500
From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com> (by way of David
Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>)
Subject: [nagdu] message regarding what to PAC for Convention
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Message-ID: <auto-000104815612 at mailfront1.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed
Greetings Fellow Federationists:
As you are getting ready for Convention, you may
be wondering what to PAC. Well, the answer is
your check book or at least the account and
routing numbers to your bank account. The PAC,
or the Preauthorized Contribution Program, is one
of the major fundraisers for our
Federation. Each year we bring in about
$360,000.00 to the organization. It is the
program through which we can make easy, monthly
donations to our national treasury. These
general funds go to support our scholarship
program, our legal advocacy, our public education
campaigns, and more. A person can give as little
as $5.00 a month or more to the Program. All we
need is a bank account from which we can withdraw
money. We need your bank's name, bank account
number, and the bank's national routing
number. Your bank can give you all of this
information with one simple phone call. However,
it would be best to get a voided check from you
because that document has all the info we
need. So, just throw that check book in your brief case and come ahead!
Individuals aren't the only ones who can
give. Any affiliate, chapter, division, or
Federation group can get on the Program as long
as you have a bank account, of course. We
can take donations from savings accounts as
long as the account permits external withdraws
and you give the information noted above. Again,
we will need your bank's name, your account
number, and the bank's national, also known as ABA, routing number.
As usual, We will be running a number of contests
at Convention. For the NFB affiliate that has
the most number of people/entities either start a
new pledge or increase an existing one,, we will
award the PAC Rat. The division with the most
activity will receive the PAC Mule. At the
national board meeting, I will be awarding
special prizes to the state affiliates that have
had the largest percentage increase over the last
year, one award will go to a large affiliate and
another to a smaller affiliate.
Additionally, we will hold a cash drawing at the
end of convention for two categories of people,
those who start a new pledge and those who
increase a pledge. The individual whose name is
drawn will receive $150.00 in cash. There will
be two drawings, one for the new pledges and one
for the increases. However, if we reach our
convention goal of increasing annualized PAC
giving to $400,000.00 or more, the cash prizes will increase to $300.00.
I look forward to seeing many of you at
convention. For those who can't come, I look
forward to your participation through other
means. For example, I can email you a PAC form
if you just shoot me a message at the below email.
Scott C. LaBarre, Esq.
Chairman, PAC Plan Committee
LaBarre Law Offices P.C.
1660 South Albion Street, Ste. 918
Denver, Colorado 80222
303 504-5979 (voice)
303 757-3640 (fax)
<mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com>slabarre at labarrelaw.com (e-mail)
<http://www.labarrelaw.com>www.labarrelaw.com (website)
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This message may contain
confidential and privileged information. If you
are not the designated recipient, you may not
read, copy, distribute or retain this message. If
you received this message in error, please notify
the sender at 303) 504-5979 or
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message and any attachments are covered by the
Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. ?? 2510-2521.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:06:56 -0400
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Missing guide dog found struck by car
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:
<6A56D82ACD5A414390131171CDC0E282EAAF9B at xmbv3802.northgrum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Thank you for sharing this.
I think my concern was with a school that sent down a command "Thou
shalt get sighted assistance" without offering actual live bodies to
provide that assistance. We all know how difficult it can be to find a
sighted person when you need/want one.
Sounds like you've got a workable system.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of The Pawpower Pack
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 2:39 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Missing guide dog found struck by car
Rebecca,
If my dog gets off leash time at the dog park, I usually know several
people there who know her and who love to give a running commentary of
what my dogs, and the other dogs are doing.
My dog also has off leash time with friend's dogs and I trust them to
watch and to either redirect my dog or ask me to do so if there is a
situation where her behavior isn't what it should be.
My dogs also have off leash time in our yard every day and I supervise
them then.
As for bathing, we have a giant claw-foot tub and the dogs get bathed
about 3 or so times a year-- more for my old dog who is prone to nasty
hypo-thyroid dog coat when her levels get out of wack. My Doberman,
Laveau really only needs bathing once or twice a year. I love her coat!
My husband does the dog scrubbing and I do the grooming and post-bath
bone handing out.
Rox and the Kitchen Bitches:
Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide dog, CGC.
"We could never learn to be brave and patient, if there were only joy in
the world." --Helen Keller Pawpower4Me at gmail.com MSN only:
Brisomania at hotmail.com AIM, Brissysgirl Yahoo, lillebriss
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40ngc.com
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:15:12 -0400
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:
<6A56D82ACD5A414390131171CDC0E282EAAF9D at xmbv3802.northgrum.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Marion,
The way you present the if-then statement in the below email does indeed
make sense.
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:29 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
Rebecca,
You seem to have a knack for the abrasive as well as for
misrepresenting one's statements. In the interest of accuracy, I believe
that what I said regarding the "linkage" you mention is that, if we have
the ability to raise our children without interference, we have the
ability to own and care for a dog without the interference or
supervision of the guide dog school. The purpose of drawing this
connection is, as many are well aware, because some states have
attempted to remove children from their parents simply due to the fact
that the parents are blind. If guide dog schools do not have enough
trust in a blind person's ability to properly care for their dogs, it
reflects their lack of belief in the capacity of the blind. JMHO!
Marion Gwizdala
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
> Well said,
> And I don't get the linkage between "If you don't own your dog, people
> will think you can't care for your children".
> Nobody except one person and he's on this list has evern made that
leap
> of logic
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of JULIE PHILLIPSON
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 8:02 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>
> hello Marion and all. I have had 3 dogs from GEB. I have never been
> afraid of them taking my dog. I know most of the training staff there
> and I don't believe any of them would take a dog without it being a
> mutual decision. GEB's policy is that after 2 years you can apply
for
> ownership if you want to. We are asked to fill out a health and work
> report but it is not mandatory. If you fill one out you get help with
> vet expenses of $300 if you do not you get help of $250 per year
again,
> if you want to take advantage of it No one forces you to use that
money
> and I guess there are a lot of folks that do not. . There are many
> different training opportunities. There are 2 instructors to 6
students
> accept for the NYC trip which is one on one. There is 1. home
training,
> 2. half at school and half at home training, and the whole course of
19
> for retrains or 26 days at the training center in Yorktown Heights for
> new students. About the dog that is under two years old I believe it
is
> taken back to school and retrained if possible and given to someone
else
> and if it must be re leased it is treated like a release dog from the
> program that is, release dogs are first offered to the puppy raiser
> before being on the adoption list which is a mile long. By the way I
> have had 2 dogs that I have kept with me until it was time for them to
> go and I intend to do that with Brewster unless something should
happen
> before that that makes it impossible for him to stay with me. . I
have
> never been pressured to retire my dog at a certain time although they
do
> suggest by the age of 10 to start thinking about it. When they turn
10
> and every birthday after that Brewster gets a birthday card and a
> present from GEB not that he needs any more toys! If someone decids
to
> retire their dog and are not able to find a good home GEB will help to
> find a home for the dog again only if you want them too. Hope this
> helps to make it more clear. I hope Marion that you would consider
> dropping this issue and stop pounding fear into perspective guide dog
> users minds.
> Julie Phillipson
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 1:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>
>
>> Ann,
>> This is not my understanding. I will need to look into this more
>> closely, as this was the last report on ownership I had from them.
>>
>> Fraternally,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 10:50 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>
>>
>>> Hello Marion,
>>>
>>>
>>> Grads can receive ownership of their GEB dogs after two years. I
>>> don't know about any reports the school might ask the person to file
>>> after that.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 7:47 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>>
>>> Tami,
>>> In addition to "urban training", please ask your friend to
>>> consider the two schools' ownership policies. The Seeing Eye grants
-
>
>>> and always has for the past eighty years - full ownership upon
>>> graduation. On the other hand, Guiding Eyes for the blind does not
>>> grant ownership throughout the life of the guide. In fact, even
after
>
>>> retirement, students are required to submit annual vetrinarian
>>> reports to the school. HTH!
>>>
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:26 AM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] TSE and Guiding Eyes comparison
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hey, all. A friend was asking me some questions about guide dog
>>>> schools,
>>>> and I had no clue to the answers, so I thought I would ask. She
> wanted
>>>> to
>>>> know how Guiding Eyes and TSE compare when it comes to urban
> training
>>>> for
>>>> both dog and handler, since both are near NYC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Has anyone been to both schools? How would you compare the two?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40ve
> rizo
>>> n.net
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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