[nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

Tue Oct 27 16:29:17 UTC 2009

If you go inside a store with your dog out of harnass but there is a sign 
that states no dogs allowed, how do you differentiate between a guide dog 
and a pet if there is no harnass?

Beverly Hunter, Outreach Manager
Georgia NFB-NEWSLINE(R)
The Georgia Audible Universal Access Service

National Federation of the Blind of  Georgia
"Everyday People, Living Life Everyday"

315 West Ponce de Leon Avenue
Suite 1020
Decatur, Georgia 30030

(404) 371-1000 ext. 23 (Voice)
(404) 432-5929 (cell)
(404) 371-1002 (Fax)
(866) 316-3242 (Toll Free)
bhunter at nfbga.org

Have you invested in braille literacy?  Go to www.braille.org and buy
a Louis Braille Commemorative coin today.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

> Cindy,
>    The Americans with Disabilities Act provides that any disabled person 
> has the right to be accompanied by a service animal in any place the 
> public is invited. A service animal is defined as any animal "individually 
> trained to perform tasks for people with disabilities". The DOJ 
> specifically states that no documentation or special identification can be 
> required of a person accompanied by a service animal. The harness does not 
> make the animal a service animal, its training does. Individuals who are 
> deaf who use a service animal to signal sounds or a person who uses a 
> wheelchair and a service animal to retrieve dropped items do not employ 
> harnesses. Furthermore, the DOJ provides that the only reason to exclude a 
> service animal is if doing so would cause a direct threat to the health or 
> safety of others that cannot be mitigated by a modification of policies, 
> practices, and procedures, or if the animal is out of control and the 
> handler does not take effective action to control the animal.
>    Though there are some state laws that require special identification or 
> that the animal is in harness, such local statutes are unenforceable under 
> the Principle of Supremacy, as no level of government may make a law that 
> is more restrictive than that of any level above it. I regularly take my 
> dog on walks with me out of harness using my white cane and, if I am out 
> and wish to stop into a store, restaurant, or bar, I have the right to 
> take my service dog into these places with me. I also have the right to 
> remove my dog's harness while traveling on a bus, airplane, or in a 
> taxicab if this is what I choose to do, provided my dog remains under 
> control and does not pose a direct threat to the health or safety of 
> others. HTH!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 8:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>
>
>>I don't see how the harness cannot be required. If what you are saying is
>> true, then anybody can march into anywhere without a harness. You could 
>> have
>> a well behaved dog, or an under achieer for a service dog, and who would
>> know the difference? I don't mean to be argumentative because you may 
>> well
>> know more about this than do I, but that seems like it wouldn't make 
>> sense.
>> No school ever told me that I had to have a harness on either; and TSE
>> encourages taking the thing off when you are on the plane, especially 
>> with
>> young dogs. I leave mine on because it seems so cramped to get it back 
>> on,
>> specially when the flights I have are so close together.
>>
>> Cindy Lou
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:09 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>>
>>
>> Angie,
>>    Do you know which airlines have such a policy? Although an airline may
>> make such a policy, there is no such requirement in law. If I chose to
>> travel with my dog out of harness using my white cane, the airline could 
>> not
>> deny me access. The harness does not make a service dog; its training 
>> does.
>> Some service animals do not wear harnesses and their owners still have 
>> the
>> right of access with their dogs
>>    Everyone needs to be aware that, even though the schools tell us
>> otherwise, we are not required to have our dogs in harness in order to be
>> afforded the right of access with them. There is nothing in the Federal 
>> law
>> requiring a service animal be harnessed. In spite of the fact that some
>> state laws require this, such laws are unenforceable.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion Gwizdala
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:31 AM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Quick-release handles: was Air Charters and the extra 
>> seat
>>
>>
>>> Wayne,
>>>
>>> This kind of experience is one reason I hope The Seeing Eye will 
>>> consider
>>> ways to provide us with quick-release handles. If we can simply remove 
>>> the
>>> harness handle, it will easily fit in the space between a window seat 
>>> and
>>> the inside wall of the plane. This will allow both the human and dog to
>>> enjoy more room while they fly, while reducing the chances that a flight
>>> attendant would seek to remove the harness from the dog's owner.
>>>
>>> Also, some airline policies state that the dog must remain in harness at
>>> all
>>> times. If we had a quick-release handle, we could comply with such
>>> policies
>>> while gaining a bit more leg/dog room.
>>>
>>> I don't know how you feel about quick-release handles, but if you agree
>>> with
>>> me, I hope you will consider relating this experience to someone at 
>>> Seeing
>>> Eye as a reason to consider quick-release handles.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Wayne Merritt
>>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:15 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Air Charters and the extra seat
>>>
>>> I think he's referring to a part of airline history in the eighties
>>> where the airlines tried to take or in some cases took canes away from
>>> blind people, claiming that they were dangerous and could fly up and
>>> hit someone if something were to happen to the plane. Though I missed
>>> this part of airline history in my travels, I've still been asked a
>>> few times by flight attendants to give up my cane. I even explained to
>>> one persont that the cane was securely between my window seat and the
>>> inside wall of the plane; in other words, it wasn't going anywhere.
>>> I'm sad to say that I have been pushed into giving up my cane, with
>>> the flight attendant in question assuring me that she would put my
>>> cane in the closet at the front of the plane during the flight, but
>>> this has happened a very few times, thankfully.
>>>
>>> I did have one similar experience in my recent Florida travels, when
>>> they were trying to acccommodate my seating arrangement on one of
>>> those smaller express jets, where I had to give up my dog's harness. I
>>> chose not to make an issue of it since I was able to get a seat with
>>> potentially more room in the first class area, though we are still
>>> talking of those smaller jets. I was reminded of of the incidents of
>>> giving up canes though and wondered if giving up a harness was
>>> similar. Sadly, it does sound familiar to me. I was able to get the
>>> harness back when leaving the plane, but I still felt like something
>>> was violated by having to give up the harness. I tried to show the
>>> flight attendant that it was secure against the wall of the plane, but
>>> no dice. Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Hth,
>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>
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