[nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI

Tue Sep 1 12:20:01 UTC 2009

Nicole,
    I'm don't know where you live, so I cannot speak to your experience. 
However, an MRI is nowhere near as noisy as Tampa (Florida) traffic! As for 
constant, well all I can say is that the traffic here is 25 hours a day 8 
days a week! (smile)

Fraternally yours,
Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI


> JMO, but I think that an MRI machine is much noisier than traffic.  Also,
> the MRI is almost non-stop for quite a long time sometimes.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:28 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI
>
> Hello Nicole and listers,
>
>    While these machines were rather noisy all of my dogs tolerated them
> without any trouble. If they couldn't tolerate a noisy CT or MRI scanner 
> I'm
> not sure I'd want them guiding me through noisy rush-hour traffic in
> downtown San Antonio. I believe the ability to handle the stress of noisy
> situations is one thing the dogs are tested for in screening them for 
> guide
> work so why worry about it? If they can't handle all types of noisy
> situations their ability to function as guides should be questioned.
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI
>
>
> Was it one of those extremely  noisy MRI's?  If so, do you know how your
> dogs responded?  That is one of the main reasons that I do not take Lexia 
> in
> the MRI room; the particular machine or rather type of machine is 
> extremely
> noisy, and Lexia does not like noise like that for an extended period of
> time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:59 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI
>
> Hello again everyone,
>
>    I have had both kinds of MRI scans and had my dogs in the scanning room
> with me. As long as the dog was a ways back from the machine and secured 
> in
> some way like I described previously. Everything was okay.
>
> My first MRI was done in the early 1990s and was a closed procedure. I had
> Ogden at the time and he accompanied me in the scanning room. Again there
> weren't any problems as he was secured away from the machine, but could
> still see and hear me. Before we determine that service animal 
> accessibility
> issues cannot be mitigated with modifications or some kind we need to be
> sure that there isn't someone out there that was able to undergo a
> particular procedure with their dog present where the procedure is being
> done. I've read a number of messages from individuals who didn't believe 
> it
> was safe to have their dog present during an MRI scan and that this
> accessibility concern was unmodifyable. Then along comes Pete Donahue to 
> say
> "Tain't necessarily so" and goes on to describe his three MRI scans he
> underwent with his dog present. I'm not trying to start an argument but
> wanted to raise the cautionary "Red flag" when it comes to determining
> whether or not one's dog should be present during certain non-sterryl
> procedures such as MRI scans. Sterility issues aside this is a matter for
> the individual guide dog user to determine.
>
> Peter Donahue
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities
>
>
> What Tracy says is correct.
> I went with a friend who needed an MRI done and nothing metal was
> allowed in the room.
> The MRI tech even asked if either of us was wearing an IUD, because
> apparently the old kind of IUD's which are not made anymore but which
> some women still have, will cause some real problems.
> Perhaps if you could have your dog not wear *any* metal at all and still
> guide, that would work, though I understand that a person must remain
> still during the MRI, so I do not know how you'd correct a dog if he/she
> were to act up. My friend was instructed not to talk, though I could
> talk to her which I did. She was in the type of MRI which has less
> resolution but which is also less confining. Perhaps the other kind of
> MRI, the closed kind has different reqirements though as the technology
> is the same, I don't see how this could be.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
> Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:14 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities
>
> I'm not Nicole, but...
> No metal object is allowed past a certain point in the MRI rooms,
> because of the powerful magnet that makes the MRI work.  A few years
> ago, a child was killed in an MRI machine because someone left a soda
> can in the room, and when they turned on the machine, the can flew into
> it.
> My dog has 2 metal objects on him when he's working, his harness and his
> collar.  So he can't come into the MRI room; he has to stay outside,
> possibly in the changing room.  But there won't be anyone there to watch
> him, and he could bother the next patient to come in, because she's
> getting ready while I'm still being scanned.
> For these reasons, I either bring someone with me to watch the dog in
> the waiting room while I get the MRI, or I'd leave the dog at home if no
> one could come with me.
> Tracy
>
>> Nicole,
>>     I can understand why you would not bring the dog in a hyperbaric
>> chamber but not sure why not in an MRI room. Could you share more
>> about this?
>>
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities
>>
>>
>>> To answer your question, an MRI room and a hyper baric  chamber.  No,
>
>>> it is not safe for the dog to go in a hyperbaric chamber.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:24 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities
>>>
>>> Nicole,
>>>    Your message raises another question for me. What is the type of
>>> area at your doctor's office in which you are restricted from taking
>>> your dog? I feel it is important for everyone to know that, according
>
>>> to the Centers for Disease Control's guidance on this, there are very
>
>>> few areas in which a service animal "poses a direct threat that
>>> cannot be mitigated by a modification of policies, practices, and
>>> procedures". These places are those in which everyone must take
>>> "universal precautions, i.e., wear gloves, gowns, & masks. It is not
>>> reasonable to expect a service animal to undergo such precautions.
>>> The entire document is attached to this message.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:34 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those times that Lexia is out of the harness, but I still need
>>>> people to know that she is a guide dog, she has a vest that I bought
>
>>>> and sewed two patches on; I don't remember what the patches say.  .
>
>>>> An example of a time that I would use it is I take her to the doctor
>
>>>> with me and have to leave her with someone because she can not go
>>>> into a certain area.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:04 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>>>>
>>>> Marion,
>>>>
>>>> *let's consider our stays in hotels. During convention, I always
>>>> give my dog a day off in the middle of the convention. However, our
>>>> policy requires us to not leave our dog unattended in the rooms.
>>>> Therefore, I allow my dog to accompany me out of harness. From your
>>>> perspective, would this be unethical?
>>>>
>>>> *
>>>> For me this is not something I would do.  When I went to convention
>>>> with Belle I did give her time off, but I did have her harness on
>>>> while I used my cane and took her along on leash.
>>>>
>>>> *suppose I want to relieve my
>>>> dog. Should I be required to harness my dog to take her out if I do
>>>> not wish to work her? * Again for me it would depend on where I was,
>
>>>> how far it was to the place to relieve her and what I would have to
>>>> go through to get there.  At a large, no pets hotel, with a long way
>
>>>> to go to get outside, yes I would probably put the harness on
>>>> whether or not I was working her or using my cane.
>>>>
>>>> *And, if while I am out, I decide to stop into the restaurant to get
>
>>>> a couple of cups of coffee to take back to my room for merry and me,
>
>>>> should I be restricted from entering into the restaurant if my dog
>>>> is not in harness?
>>>> * Restricted, I don't know.  Again I would not be comfortable taking
>
>>>> my guide dog into a restaurant out of harness.
>>>> *Does my dog pose any greater threat to those in the restaurant if
>>>> she is not in harness?* No, not at all.  But I don't think that is
>>>> the issue.
>>>>
>>>> *    While I am at work and the dog is lying under my desk, should I
> be
>>>> required to keep my dog in harness to satisfy some ethical
>>>> consideration?
>>>> *
>>>> no.  That is your space.
>>>>
>>>> *Some schools and even more users train their dogs to guide on leash
>
>>>> without the harness.  Again, if I am at work and wish to get a drink
>
>>>> or step outside for some fresh air, should I be required to put the
>>>> harness on my dog?* Required? no, I don't think so, but again I
>>>> think I would put the harness on to do these things.  I also teach
>>>> my dogs to leash guide, but even if I am using leash guiding in a
>>>> public situation, I still have the dog in harness.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think it's an easy distinction to make, when to put on the
>>>> harness and when not to.  I think Ann Edie said it all better than I
>
>>>> could ever explain in her post from last week or the week before.  I
>
>>>> don't think that we should be required to have our dogs in harness
>>>> in particular situations.
>>>> I do think we need to make every effort to make sure that the public
>
>>>> knows that our guide dogs are guide dogs.  I think this is best done
>
>>>> by having them wear their harnesses.  Incidentally I also think that
>
>>>> other types of service dogs should wear a vest or other identifying
>>>> equipment, not because it is required, but because it is an easy way
>
>>>> to identify them as service
>>>> dogs.   It's like a name tag.  Sure people can do a job without a
> name
>>>> tag,
>>>> but doesn't it make things easier for the public when you can be
>>>> easily identified?
>>>>
>>>> I definitely don't think we need more rules about when or where or
>>>> how to handle our guide dogs, but at the same time I think we need
>>>> to do everything in our power to help the public understand what is
>>>> what so that no one feels that more rules are in order.
>>>>
>>>> Of course this is JMHO
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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