[nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers

Wed Dec 22 18:05:24 UTC 2010

Good points. Lexia does have some interesting/funny/amusing behaviors that 
we often wonder if they started with her raiser or not. Anyone else's dog 
like to do somersaults?

Nicole and Lexia

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 6:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers

> Rebecca,
>
> I think you are correct to an extent, especially about changing policies
> from within, but one thing to remember is that puppies change a great deal
> over the time they are with their raisers, just like your own child. Some
> things they do are predictable, some behaviors can be shaped, stopped or
> yes, in some cases encouraged.
>
> Would you want someone comparing your daughter at age 5 to her adult self
> and asking why you let her do X, Y or Z?
>
> I hear a lot of people saying that behaviors they observe in their dogs as
> adults are directly related to something the puppy raiser did or did not 
> do,
> usually in the negative.
>
> I've had several dogs whose raisers said they were surprised the dog made 
> it
> to be a guide, only because they remembered the dog's teenage years as it
> were and based their opinion not on any specific bad behavior but the 
> dog's
> general attitude. I've also had one dog who never did certain things as a
> puppy that he definitely did as an adult, and he developed those 
> behaviors,
> like a kid going off to college, once he got into the kennel setting.
> Luckily, they weren't horrific behaviors, but the raiser was shocked to 
> hear
> he did such things, even in his kennel profiles. Yep, he was quite the 
> frat
> boy, partying with the kennel mates, opening run doors and crate doors and
> egging on other dogs. I called him the Bart Simpson of guide dogs for a
> reason. :)
>
> Yes, some bad habits, as well as some good ones, can start and magnify in
> the puppy home but remember, not everything does. n
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) (Internet)
> Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 8:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] EXTERNAL:Re: contact with puppy raisers/walkers
>
> Marsha,
> I am sorry this happened to you. Truly I am.
> I do want to say that "find a different school" isn't the solution to
> everything. It's like saying "If you don't like x about your husband, then
> find a different husband".
> Yes, that may be the answer, but why can't people try to change the policy
> from within?
> An argument for having contact with raisers is that they live with and
> observe the dog in the same conditions you do. The trainers do not live 
> with
> the dogs, and I do think that impacts what they observe and how they 
> observe
> it. It's like living with a person and noticing things that you wouldn't
> notice if you didn't live with them.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 9:36 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: EXTERNAL:Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers
>
> Ginger, Thank you for this explaination. As an SE grad, I have no problem
> with the way the puppy raising contact is done now. I completely see why 
> its
> done the way it is. And I know that if I wanted to send a letter to Emma's
> raiser, then I can do so. I would rather stay private. I mean don't get me
> wrong, how they raised Emma was wonderful, but neither do I need anything
> else from them. With my previous pup, from GDB. I had a bad raiser
> experience. After only 4 years of working Heather, I was forced to retire
> her. And because I did so, the raiser, got very upset at me. She was never
> meant to be a guide, and I have no clue why GDB put her through the
> training. She was a wonderful pup, just not meant to do guide work. The
> raiser blamed me for her ability not to work. And believe me if I could 
> have
> done something to make that dog work, then I would.
>
> So as a SE grad, I know why they did it this way. If you don't like it, 
> then
> maybe those of you who have real issues with the policy should find 
> another
> school.
>
> Just my two cents for whatever its worth,
> Marsha
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ginger Kutsch
> Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 9:07 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] contact with puppy raisers/walkers
>
> All,
>
> There is a question about The Seeing Eye's policy regarding
> raiser contact on the consumer satisfaction survey that graduates
> are invited to participate in after they have been home with
> their dogs for nine months. When I worked on the consumer
> satisfaction committee, the majority of respondents,
> approximately 80%, were satisfied with the current puppy raiser
> contact policy.
>
> As a graduate of The Seeing Eye, I have no strong feeling one way
> or another about puppy raiser contact. I've written a thank you
> note to my puppy raisers for each of my three dogs and have never
> received a response. Whether I am able to have direct
> communication with my puppy raiser or not has no bearing on my
> dog's ability to guide me safely and effectively. Therefore, it
> is not part of my decision making process when I consider a
> school.
>
> There are, however,  several graduates who attend The Seeing Eye
> because there is *no contact. Whether we are all "adults" or not,
> people are generally brought up to feel obligated in some way to
> those people who offer us assistance, give us gifts, etc. How
> many times have you done something simply because you feel
> obligated?
>
> The fact is that, whether we call ourselves "consumers" or not,
> when we attend a guide dog school and receive a dog, we are
> accepting charity. Those people who raise puppies for a guide dog
> school are performing a charitable act. If you consider the
> definition of charity for a moment, it may give you more insight
> on the philosophy of The Seeing Eye. Charity is defined as 1),
> generous actions or donations to aid the poor, ill, or helpless;
> And 2), something given to a person or persons in need.
>
> Early on, The Seeing Eye created policies that supported its
> belief that blind people deserved respect and dignity. Now I know
> there are some on this list that dislike the word dignity, but
> when applied correctly, one realizes that The Seeing Eye's tag
> line  is not saying that dogs provide independence and dignity;
> but rather  it's saying that the organization firmly believes
> that independence and dignity is a right that everyone deserves.
>
> That said, many of the policies that The Seeing Eye upholds
> support this belief.
>
> 1. There is a charge for the dog. Seeing Eye does not advertise
> that a blind person can come get a dog for free. This smacks of
> "charity".  The fee hardly covers the true cost of the dog and
> may only be symbolic, but it enables the organization to promote
> its belief that blind people are not looking for a hand-out but
> rather a hand-up.
>
> 2. The Seeing Eye does not accept funding, or ask its graduates
> to seek funding, for any one individual's  specific training
> needs. I think Buddy's post adequately explained the reason for
> this policy.
>
> 3. The Seeing Eye does not facilitate puppy raiser contact. This
> policy is in keeping with the organization's belief that blind
> people who receive a dog from The Seeing Eye are not charity
> cases but rather individuals who are looking to enhance their
> lives. This policy switches the focus of puppy raising from
> raising a dog for any one blind individual to raising the dog for
> an organization that provides dogs for the blind. This makes the
> organization obligated to the puppy raisers, rather than placing
> that burden on the individual blind person.
>
> Years ago when graduates expressed a desire to be able to
> personally thank their puppy raisers if they so chose, The Seeing
> Eye responded and created a system so that graduates might do so
> while still preserving anonymity. Since the majority of Seeing
> Eye graduates are satisfied with the current policy on puppy
> raiser contact, it's highly unlikely that the organization will
> seek to change it at this point.
>
> Anyway, I'm not speaking on behalf of the organization, just
> offering my two cents for what its worth!
>
> Ginger,
>
>
>
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