[nagdu] Questions and Comments from J. Q. Public
Hope Paulos
hope.paulos at maine.edu
Sat Jan 2 01:31:33 UTC 2010
My poor shepherd was identified by a coyote by a few kids, and a wolf by a
19-year-old girl. It's interesting the thoughts J.Q. Public has about our
animals.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 6:27 PM
Subject: [nagdu] Questions and Comments from J. Q. Public
> Hi, Albert,
>
> The most common questions that I get when traveling with Panda are:
>
> Is that a dog?
>
> Can I pet your pony?
>
> How big will that pony be when it grows up?
>
> May I take a picture of you and your pony? (This question is invariably
> asked by someone who has stopped their car blocking a crosswalk as we are
> in
> the act of crossing the street.)
>
> Can my kids come say hi to your pony? (After much experience with this
> question, I have learned that the translation into English is: Can I let
> my
> children come and climb all over your guide animal and stick their fingers
> in her mouth and eyes?)
>
> And some common comments are:
>
> Wow, that's a big dog!
>
> Look, there's a lady with a cow! (or donkey!)
>
> As you can easily perceive from the above examples, the questions and
> comments that I hear rarely rise to the level of discussing distinctions
> of whether the animal which accompanies me is a pet or a working animal,
> or
> what her function actually is, or how she was trained or how she is
> handled; we are usually at a rather basic level of understanding, that of
> determining the species of my partner or whether I myself am aware that it
> is not a canine by my side.
>
> But haven't you been greeted with my favorite J Q Public exclamation from
> my guide dog user days?"Look, there's a blind dog!"
>
> Cheers and Happy New Year!
>
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <
> albert at myblindspot.org>
>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 3:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>> You got that right. I also like the ones that tell me isn't your dog
>> supposed to be a german Sheppard? I so wonder what type of questions
>> panda
>> gets thrown at him as a guide pony?
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>>
> www.myblindspot.org
>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 2:54 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Don't worry, Albert! As soon as you get over being startled by one set
>> of
>> questions, you will get asked a new and even more totally off the wall
>> one
>> by the next 10 people you meet. /grin/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 10:12 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> You know the questions I love to get, not really, are the ones like "does
>> the dog ever get to play"? I mean really. They truly do not get that in
>> every way the dog is a dog and needs to be treated as such, but he loves
>> to
>> work and does so with pride. he is a spoiled little pup, not so little
>> just
>> over 90 lbs. I also like when they notice he picks something off the
>> ground
>> and they are in awe that he would do that. he is a lab so he does what
>> most
>> labs do and that would most certainly include picking up paper and
>> chewing
>> on it between rides or rests at the bus stop. I love the questions, just
>> shocked at some of them for sure. happy and healthy to you
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>>
> www.myblindspot.org
>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>> Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:31 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Very true! It can be said that each of us does that each time we go out
>> with our guides and are seen going about our business safely and
>> confidently
>> while our dogs lead us around obstacles and stop at curbs and all the
>> other
>> things they do. Going out and about is also a good time to answer
>> questions
>> while you're waiting at a stop light, riding the bus or or train or
>> whatever. There are days I would rather not not, but I always find I
>> enjoyed the conversations I've had in retrospect. Even some of the
>> sillier
>> ones. /lol/
>>
>> There was recently a public education in my neck of the woods, put on by
>> the
>> dept. or agriculture or some such, and it's been interesting getting
>> questions based on the public's understanding of that effort. Just when
>> I
>> get used to the same old questions... /lol/ But people are learning and
>> are genuinely making conversation with me while attempting to advance
>> their
>> own understanding. So they ask me what my dog does for me? Er... She's
>> a
>> guide dog, I will explain helpfully. Quick on my feet, I am! /grin/ Yes,
>> but what does she *do* for you? Does she pick things up? Does she tell
>> you
>> when it's safe to cross the street? Does she...? As a guide dog user, I
>> find some of these suggestions silly indeed, but it's a good chance to
>> discuss and explain.
>>
>> Of course, when it's at the dog park, and I'm proudly outlining the
>> impressive list of functions my dog performs, then we both look at her to
>> see that crazy bunny lope of hers with the maniaacal poodle grin, it
>> seems
>> they just can't cope with the concept that such a creature can do serious
>> work. /lol/ The conversation falters after that. But still, I think I
>> can
>> say that both myself and the questioner learned something. And Mitzi
>> does
>> do a good job of showing that a guide dog out of harness is, after all, a
>> dog. Or whatever that wild curly thing of mine is. /lol/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:37 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> I like your reference to community. It takes a village as they say. But
>> at
>> the root of what you spoke of is active and participatory education that
>> each of us, blind and sighted, republican and democrat, are bound to as
>> members of this great society of ours. I agree that the instances must
>> be
>> far and few between and that changing things will most certainly open
>> doors
>> for other needless dialogues. But if we were to go out into our
>> communities
>> and dispel ignorance one store front at a time, if and when they present
>> themselves we will do more for the legislation in place then would be
>> done
>> in changing it before it is properly exercised.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>>
> www.myblindspot.org
>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 5:13 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> The other end to this Buddy, might be the immplementation of a registry
>> which would also bring in yet another cost to us, or shall I say a tax.
>> Just one more layer to uncover here as it is generally required that if
>> one
>> is certified, they also have to pay additional annual registry fee, which
>> would be undoubtedly be passed down to the user in some way shape or
>> form.
>> Just what we need, another tax. So by creating a certification, this
>> would
>> do what, create a reason to have our animals registered on a national
>> registry, and why would we need or want this? Maybe I am reading too
>> much
>> into this whole idea of a certification, but isn't this pretty accurate?
>> Teachers, O&M instructors, all have certification processes, and have
>> their
>> professional registries etc., and we need this for opening up access to
>> animals in training that are being denied access how often?
>>
>> I'd bet you 10:1 that individuals has self-trained on this list serve,
>> they
>> had very little problem in accessing places of public accommodation while
>> training their guide. And this is why? They are well-known in their
>> communities, have established a solid reputation, and are simply not
>> faking
>> it.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <
> buddy at brannan.name>
>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> Actually, no. Unless and until I can see a fair and cost-effective
>>> program
>>
>>> that would be administered by people who have a clue (and unfortunately,
>>> I
>>
>>> don't see any way such a thing can happen, given the aforementioned
>>> complexities coupled with government's abysmal track record at such
>>> things), there's no way I can support certification. There are far too
>>> many ways a certification program can either be screwed up or screw
>>> somebody over.
>>> --
>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>>>
>>>> So would it be safe to assume that you support certification from your
>>>> statement?
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>
> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Buddy Brannan
>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:32 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 25, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> While we mull over what constitutes a service animal, lets determine
>>>>> to
>>>>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns,
>>>>> diabetic
>>>>> and seizure issues and any multitude of reasons a medically
>>>>> prescribed
>>>>> animal would help one who needs one.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, let's not.
>>>>
>>>> The current definition for a service animal is, IMO, not too bad, i.e.
>>>> any
>>>> definition of service animal must of necessity include that the animal
>>>> must
>>>> be task trained, etc. etc. If we open up the definition further to
>>>> include
>>>> so-called "emotional support animals", well, it isn't much further to
>>>> go
>>>> to
>>>> allow pets of all kinds. Mind you, I don't have a problem with pets in
>>>> public places so long as they're well-behaved and under good control.
>>>> Sadly,
>>>> hoever, most are not, but I digress. For the brief time I was the
>>>> membership
>>>> coordinator for IAADP (last year, actually), you wouldn't believe the
>>>> number
>>>> of calls and Emails I had to field from people who would call asking
>>>> about
>>>> their rights as handlers of service dogs, but it turned out that these
>>>> dogs
>>>> had no formal task training. The dog "calmed me by its presence" or
>>>> other
>>>> such nonsense. Friends, that is what we in the biz call a "pet".
>>>>
>>>> Now a dog that alerts to seizures, diabetic highs or lows, perhaps
>>>> severe
>>>> allergens (yes, really, might be a stretch--I don't know), and so on, I
>>>> would think qualifies as a service dog, if, again, it had specific task
>>>> training to mitigate a disability. Say, a seizure alert dog that would
>>>> alert
>>>> its handler to an oncoming seizure, get him/her to a safe place before
>>>> the
>>>> onset of the seizure, then pressed a 911 call button. Or a dog that
>>>> provided
>>>> support to someone who had some balance or other issue. But comfort or
>>>> anchor to reality or what have you are not trained tasks.
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>>
> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Cindy Ray
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with
>>>>> the
>>>>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>>>> constitute
>>>>> one really?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <
> albert at myblindspot.org>
>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <
> nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage which
>>>>> is
>>>>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides
>>>>> are
>>>>> being denied access. What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>>>>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in
>>>>> the
>>>>> a.d.a., which as you yourself presented, can be interpreted to
>>>>> prevent
>>>> such
>>>>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
>>>>> using
>>>>> the same for the intended purpose? And what of our peers who use
>>>> companions
>>>>> for a diagnosable condition where a companion animal/service animal
>>>>> is
>>>>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford
>>>>> them
>>>>> the same protections, or do they? I think that trainers should be
>>>>> held
>>>>> to
>>>> a
>>>>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum
>>>>> dogs
>>>> do
>>>>> not live through that pain again. there is something to say for the
>>>>> consideration of certification provided that a standard of national
>>>>> proportions could be meaningful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>>
> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From:
> nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Cindy,
>>>>>
>>>>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
>>>>> certification
>>>>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict
>>>>> the
>>>>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>>>>> accommodation.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed
>>>>> on
>>>>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
>>>>> would'nt
>>>>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified
>>>>> entity
>>>>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>>>>
>>>>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>>>> places
>>>>> of public accommodation. The fair housing amendments act already
>>>>> provides
>>>>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals
>>>>> in
>>>>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>>>> where
>>>>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>>>>> reasonable accommodation. The underlying problem is that these are
>>>>> not
>>>>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>>>> functional
>>>>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a
>>>>> professional
>>>>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would
>>>>> expand
>>>>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>>>>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
>>>>> specifically
>>>>> stated in the ADA.
>>>>>
>>>>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we
>>>>> are
>>>>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>>>>
>>>>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service
>>>>> animals,
>>>> the
>>>>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention
>>>>> in
>>>> that
>>>>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to
>>>>> expand
>>>> and
>>>>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals. Mark my
>>>>> word.
>>>>>
>>>>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further
>>>>> understand
>>>> that
>>>>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>>>> providing
>>>>> a service. A support yes, a service no.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What is PWD?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>>>> those
>>>>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification
>>>>>> outfit
>>>>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC
>>>>>> knows
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>>>> School
>>>>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified
>>>>>> trainers?
>>>>>> Would
>>>>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>>>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers. If I want to call
>>>>>> myself a dog trainer, I can. There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>>>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary. The guide
>>>>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>>>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed
>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>>>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying
>>>>>> PWD.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cent
>>>>> urytel.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>> nagdu:
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>>>>
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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