[nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
Tracy Carcione
carcione at access.net
Thu Mar 11 12:59:46 UTC 2010
Hi Tami. I think you're right. I enjoyed reading your philosophizing.
You left out what I call the commuter zomby, though. Commuter zombies
don't help, even if I ask for help. "Is this the line for the 168 bus?"
20 people, and no answer until I start muttering under my breath. Are
they waiting for me to make eye contact or something? Not gonna happen!
But I think the zombies are a big city phenomenon.
Or why is it that 5 people will ask me if I need help crossing some dinky
street, and at some hairy intersection with loud construction going on no
one does? Oh well.
Tracy
> Sometimes being respectful of people who aren't being respectful of you is
> the best form of self-defense. Probably because you have to respect
> yourself first, so that shows. Or somethng. /smile/
>
> I can find trouble just fine without going out looking for it... Kidding!
> One of the perceptual issues of my own I have finally come to understand
> is
> that people trouble has to come to me, so the sorts of people who are tha
> much trouble are suddenly *very* noticeable! Since they're often standing
> in my way or impeding my progress somehow or even just being loudly
> obnoxious -- or, heaven forbid, grabbing my arm or my cane or my dog -- I
> have no choice but to notice them and allow them to take up a portion of
> my
> concentration and attention. So it used to seem like they were all over
> the
> place! Then I would add things up and realize that a little incident here
> and there, with maybe a bigger Incident with a capital "I" thrown in for
> kicks, seemed like it was happening everywhere all the time, even when it
> really wasn't. So I started adding up the "normal" interactions with
> people
> in my head. Ah! Fewer than 1 percent of the people I interact with in my
> daily life and travels over time cause problems. Another small percentage
> is mildly annoying. That still leaves more than 95 percent of people --
> probably more like more than 98 percent -- who just go about doing what
> people do whether I'm there or not. On the other side of the scale, a
> certain percentage is really great in their interactions, which is how I
> expect people I interact with to be. /grin/
>
> Since I don't see people who are simply minding their own business and
> letting me mind mine, I forget they're there unless I think about it. I'm
> more aware of them through sound and my other senses now that I'm much
> more
> adapted to blindness, but I still try to remind myself to remember their
> presence if I'm feeling frustrated or bothered by the jerks.
>
> Another thing I realized, once I stopped worrying so much about it all --
> which took some time, I admit -- is that walking everywhere in a city of
> avid, cheerfully pedestrians, provides me with tons of human interaction I
> wouldn't have driving my car (I still have dreams about driving!). At
> first, this seemed to be too much, even though I truly adore people in
> general. Feeling self-consciously about the long white cane in my hands
> and
> worrying about tapping people's heels and whatever, whatever, I would have
> this constant feeling I was being watched... And I couldn't watch them
> back! Oh, no! /lol/
>
> I don't think we can get away from cultural attitudes toward gender, and
> human responses to masculinity vs. femininity seem to be pretty well
> hard-wired, since that's what keeps us making more humans. /smile/ The
> vulnerable, feminine woman (perceived that way, anyhow) inspires people to
> come to her rescue whether she needs it or not, just by walking by. They
> probably don't even noticed they're being inspired any more than she's
> doing
> anything active to inspire them, because it's just instinct.
>
> Then you have the snotty, obnoxious, tomboy types like me, and people
> don't
> consider leaping to my rescue. Which means, of course, that people who do
> decide to "help" me generally seem to be more interested in controlling me
> or some such than in assisting. So I get real mad. /grin/
>
> Okay, now I'm just procrastinating and waxing philosophical. It is an
> interesting topic, though.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Linda Gwizdak
> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:24 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
>
> Hi,
> I think gender is a consideration on how people react to us as blind
> people.
>
> If you are a large, masculine person, people will respond to you
> differently
>
> than if you a a small, feminine person.
>
> As a masculine person, I won't be "protected" from harm and I don't get
> bothered by people too much - I'm also an Orange Belt in Soo Bahk Do and
> use
>
> the techniques to stop a problem in its tracks. I am very loud when I
> want
> to be! (grin!) I find that little, feminine people get people running to
> assist them and "protect" them when trouble comes their way. Howwever, I
> don't go looking for trouble and I try to be respectful of all people.
>
> Lyn and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
>
>
>> Tracy,
>>
>> It's hard to say, really, if it's because I'm a woman who is blind or
>> just
>> because I'm blind. Maybe it would be more accurate to say the gender
>> perception is on my part? And it could have more to do with size and
>> build
>> than with how body parts are organized. /smile/ When my physical space
>> is
>> violated -- and that now extends to my dog -- I guess there's part of me
>> that would like to be big and brawny enough to have the option of
>> knocking
>> the offender down. /rin/ Moreso, there have been a few times I've
>> realized
>> they were likely to knock me down because they were doing the big bad
>> bully
>> thing, clearly seeing a blind person as easy prey. It hasn't ever gone
>> that
>> far, outside of the living skills program, but I do not like feeling
>> vulnerable that way!
>>
>> I'm also probably a lot more anxious when I perceive even a possible
>> physical threat because I was assaulted there, and I am still having to
>> pay
>> for treatment for injuries from more than one staff person. So I'm sure
>> I
>> have more of a tendency to wonder if someone acting hinky is going to
>> "get"
>> me and wonder if I need to be prepared to "get" them first or if I can
>> "get"
>> them to not "get" me, or whatever. It's not a way I am accustomed to
>> thinking or feeling, and it's not really all that dramatic and strong,
>> just
>> uncomfortable.
>>
>> I do associate those feelings with growing up in a place where women
>> would
>> be doing great to move up to second class citizen. Now that I'm back in
>> the
>> ranks of the insignificant, not "real" people, I do sometimes feel
>> there's
>
>> a
>> gender bias involved where they may not really be. Huh...
>>
>> Either way, the regular encounters with boneheads, bozos and jerks need
>> to
>> be dealt with constructively, even if that just means getting them out
>> of
>> your way so you can continue down the sidewalk. /smile/ Whatever
>> motivated
>> a person to do something negative or even harmful or dangerous is not
>> what's
>> important.
>>
>> Learning to deal with the negative emotions that I experience as a
>> result
>> is
>> difficult, but that's another of those things we each have to learn to
>> deal
>> with in our own way. /smile/
>>
>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 11:57 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Gender differences WAS harness signs
>>
>> Tami, are you sure you're getting the helpless idiot treatment because
>> you're a woman? I get it too, and it drives me buggy, but my husband is
>> losing his sight, and one of the things he hates about it is that so
>> many
>> people treat him like a helpless idiot. I don't know how to help him
>> deal
>> with it, either. There is the old snappy comeback "only my wife calls
>> me
>> sweetie" for instance, but it's hard to have the snappy comeback when
>> you
>> need it.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>> Oh, the gender difference drives me batty sometimes. Well, quite a bit
>>> of
>>> the time. /grin/ I prefer using direct, clear communication to convey
>>> and
>>> receive thoughts and ideas. But, no, I've developed this extensive
>>> repertoire of indirect, even -- I daresay! -- passive aggressive, means
>>> of
>>> convincing people to just stay out of my way and let me go about my
>>> business.
>>>
>>> It has been very hard to get used to, as has being treated like I'm
>>> insignificant and helpless and, well, you know a l'il lady. Ugh! I
>>> don't
>>> notice it so much now that I've had plenty of exposure, but at first it
>>> just
>>> got me all hot and bothered.
>>>
>>> The awareness that li'l ol' me and my funny poodle dog represent blind
>>> people and guide dog users the world over also makes dealing with the
>>> everyday space invasions, disruptions, obstructions, etc., more
>>> stressful.
>>> It also makes coming up with a response I can live with difficult. I
>>> guess
>>> I've adapted enough to have all those schticks and spiels and whatever
>>> to
>>> keep it down to a bearable level, and I'm used to it enough that I
>>> don't
>>> even notice it sometimes, or at least I accept it as part of walking
>>> around
>>> doing my thing. Especially when I have to take the bus or the train to
>>> do
>>> my thing! I love having the bus and train, and I love riding them and
>>> listening to the people around me because I am an inveterate people
>>> watcher.
>>>
>>> I just prefer the people to stay out of my space and mind their own
>>> business! /lol/
>>>
>>> I've also decided to go ahead and be effing rude when someone crosses
>>> the
>>> line and a civil response doesn't work to get them back onto their own
>>> side.
>>> If onlookers want to think that blind people are inherently obnoxious
>>> because of it, oh, well! If they're close enough to observe my
>>> response/reaction, they're close enough to see what provoked it. I
>>> can't
>>> help it if they have no judgment of their own!
>>>
>>> Every now and then when I start yapping on about some of these things
>>> we
>>> li'l blind ladies have to put up with -- either something I heard about
>>> or
>>> something that happened to me -- to DD, he gets all manly and
>>> belligerent.
>>> "I just don't have patience for that sort of thing," he will say
>>> darkly.
>>> "I'll only put up with it so long. Then I'll cold cock 'em!"
>>>
>>> Ah, to be a big, tall, strapping fella! /grin/ In theory, that
>>> simple,
>>> straightforward, direct solution to the problem sounds much too
>>> tempting.
>>> Then I remember that I don't have the physique for it anyway, so I
>>> couldn't
>>> really make it work. Which is probably why I can cheerfully admit to
>>> letting my brain carry on with images of cane whacking someone about
>>> the
>>> head and shoulders while my good sense searches for a practical
>>> response.
>>> /evil grin/ The mental image is very, very satisfying to my inner, uh,
>>> whatever you want to call it; also, the imaginary cane is much more
>>> substantial and impressive a weapon than the light things I actually
>>> carry
>>> in my back pocket or purse. Unfortunately, actually following through
>>> on
>>> the image would just make me look really, really, foolish and,
>>> honestly,
>>> completely nutty. /grin/
>>>
>>> Not that DD goes around knocking down people who annoy him! Which is a
>>> good
>>> thing for me. /grin/ Still, he does have the option of looking stern
>>> and
>>> puffing up the muscles just a bit to remind people he can if he wants
>>> to.
>>> I
>>> try that on, and it just gets me more grief. That posturing is
>>> something
>>> I
>>> do when ribbing with my buds to make them laugh. /lol/
>>>
>>> Stepping between someone and my dog is something I do, too, but then
>>> I'm
>>> face to face with some fool who doesn't respect me. It will suddenly
>>> occur
>>> to me that this may not turn out well for me if the person's aggression
>>> turns physical. Apparently, my years growing up as a skinny, shirley
>>> temple
>>> clone of a brainy girl taught me something, because in my youth
>>> actually
>>> pulled that sort of thing off with violently mentally unstable (too
>>> much
>>> of
>>> that inbred population!) men who were working up to an assault on one
>>> or
>>> another of my friends. There I would suddenly be, nose-to-nose with
>>> someone
>>> much bigger than me bent on irrational violence... Oops! But they
>>> always
>>> backed down in the end. Huh. Then I grew up and moved away and didn't
>>> have
>>> to use that strange little skill until I started going about being all
>>> blind
>>> and stuff...
>>>
>>> Then again, I've been paying a lot for physical therapy for attacks
>>> from
>>> behind from people who were being paid to help me. So now I have this
>>> sense
>>> of vulnerability that I really hate. I've also learned some techniques
>>> to
>>> adapt my cowgirl physical self-defense skills to use on humans.
>>> Haven't
>>> had
>>> to use that, but wish I had gone with my gut when the attacks occurred!
>>> I
>>> had not previously been subject to physical violence in my adult life,
>>> so
>>> just wasn't expecting it, tried to remain calm and use passive
>>> self-defense
>>> unstil I could deal with it in a civilized manner... Oh. Bad move on
>>> my
>>> part. We blind people are, like or not, fair game. Those people who
>>> inflicted the injuries I continue to recover from -- and that others
>>> are
>>> paying to recover from -- still have jobs.
>>>
>>> Speaking of learning things the hard way! Be careful what you type
>>> when
>>> you're using JAWS and have dogs around. /lol/ I took a little break
>>> and
>>> was
>>> putzing in the kitchen, bent over to pick up something I had dropped
>>> just
>>> as
>>> Daisy hound decided to dash in front of me... Taking a coonhound skull
>>> ridge to the orbital bone didn't quite cold cock me, but I have felt a
>>> little strange for the past few minutes. Apparently, she is more
>>> hard-headed than I am. /grin/
>>>
>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jeanette Beal
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2010 5:58 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>
>>> I'm wondering how much of the interaction between public and dog is
>>> gender-based to the handler? As a woman, I know that I'm interacted
>>> with
>>> on
>>> a slightly different level than men - called 'little lady' by
>>> many-a-older-guy on public transit, etc. I know there was a study done
>>> recently (um, 20/20 special so not really a study) with a blind man & a
>>> blind woman trying to buy pastries in a shop and the woman was actually
>>> stood up for/defended more readily by an incredulous public than the
>>> man.
>>> Is
>>> this because women are inherently viewed as inferior and in need of
>>> protection? Probably.
>>> So when a female handler walks around with her dog is it much easier
>>> to
>>> disregard her and interact with her dog? Perhaps. I've had men spit in
>>> my
>>> face because I told them to leave my dog alone. Granted he spit in my
>>> face
>>> after he started petting my dog and I said no and he said F-off and I
>>> said
>>> oh really? And stepped between dog & dude and dude then pushed at me so
>>> I
>>> slapped him in the face and he spit on me and then....ran away. But the
>>> main
>>> point was I said no and he said "so?" and continued his bad behavior.
>>> I have a hard time with this subject. It's so rooted in my need for
>>> safety
>>> in public as a woman - using public transit and getting groped by a
>>> dude
>>> behind or next to me feels as dirty and disgusting as unauthorized
>>> petting
>>> of my dog by a stranger. So how do I reconcile my need for safety and
>>> autonomy with the day-to-day hassles all handlers have in public?
>>> I do so by not allowing people to pet my dog. By demanding that I be
>>> asked
>>> first. By expecting my answer to be respected - if I say no it means
>>> no.
>>> This goes for my body as much as my dog's. And unfortunately the
>>> waiting
>>> public takes away that I'm a rude, withholding human. But my safety is
>>> more
>>> important than public image.
>>> Unfortunately we aren't in a vacuum and all blind people speak for all
>>> blind
>>> people in front of AB folks. So when someone lets the public pet their
>>> dog
>>> in harness they send a message that I will to. And when I say no and am
>>> assumed rude I send a message that all blind people are rude.
>>> It's a crappy inter-connected all-disabled-folk-are-the-same world.
>>> Jeanette
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Albert J Rizzi
>>> <albert at myblindspot.org>wrote:
>>>
>>>> now there is the honest one in the group. I must confess that I too
>>>> enjoy
>>>> it
>>>> when people take notice of my handsome lad. I do stop to let him take
>>>> in
>>>> the
>>>> praise at times, though I always take his harness off. Now before you
>>>> all
>>>> go
>>>> mad about that, it is a conscious decision I make and am willing to
>>>> make
>>>> for
>>>> my dog and all the good work he does, I feel that if time allotted
>>>> when
>>>> I
>>>> take the harness off it reinforces the work thing and out of work
>>>> thing
>>> for
>>>> the dog. It also embarrasses the petting offender and they always
>>>> insist
>>> I
>>>> not go to any great lengths, which always allows for a honest and open
>>>> I
>>>> really should bet t my meeting.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>> who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 6:39 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>>
>>>> Hmm... Maybe someone should make a project out of finding a mutt-ugly
>>>> scurvy cur, slappying a guide dog harness on it and heading out into
>>> public
>>>> to see what happens? /grin/ I've thought of designing a special
>>>> poodle
>>>> cut
>>>> to uglify Mitzi... I could have the groomer do her all lopsided and
>>>> patch
>>>> and stuff, then put odd dye patches on her here and there...
>>>>
>>>> Whaddaya think? Should I go for it? /grin/
>>>>
>>>> Or maybe someone could invent a spray, like that stuff that is
>>>> supposed
>>>> to
>>>> keep pets away from certain areas. In fact, isn't it called "Pet
>>>> Away?"
>>> or
>>>> stomething? Maybe if we sprayed are dogs with anti-human pheromones
>>>> we
>>>> could go about our business in peace? /lol/
>>>>
>>>> Okay, so my dirty little secret is that I've sort of gotten to enjoy
>>>> the
>>>> attention my poodle gets, now that we've learned to deal and move on.
>>>> Unless she's in hussy mode, in which case, I just have to deal until I
>>>> can
>>>> make a graceful exit or haul out the jaws of life to separate her from
>>>> the
>>>> bestest friend ever she just made. /smile/ I figure I can embarrass
>>>> myself
>>>> enough that I may as well let the dog find ways to embarrass me so
>>>> long
>>>> as
>>>> it makes everybody happy... Sigh. Maybe it has something to do with
>>>> living
>>>> in Portland? Part of me remembers the place as the oversized redneck
>>>> town
>>>> of my youth; it's fun talking to long-time resident cabbies who
>>>> remember
>>> it
>>>> the same way. But in the past (I will not admit how many) years, it's
>>>> grown
>>>> and changed along and now it's sort of... Funky? Funny? Kind of
>>>> getting
>>> to
>>>> be cosmopolitan but with a super progressive political bent and a
>>>> strong
>>>> flavor of small-town friendliness. It can make going out and about a
>>>> lot
>>>> of
>>>> fun, in a funy, weird way.
>>>>
>>>> So long as one remembers to take into account the growing number of
>>>> homeless
>>>> people with dogs of uncertain temperament downtown... That population
>>>> has
>>>> grown over the past few years, and while the scary dogs we've passed
>>>> have
>>>> been kept under control by their ragged and dirty humans, it seems to
>>>> take
>>>> a
>>>> lot of effort from the human to keep the dog from going for my sweet
>>>> precious. Yikes! Still, with the housing situation here, as in so
>>>> many
>>>> places, it's to be expected. Sigh. Otherwise, though, Portland is a
>>>> pretty
>>>> cool place.
>>>>
>>>> You just don't stand a prayer of going more than five steps without
>>> someone
>>>> saying something about your dog. /grin/
>>>>
>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 2:05 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>>
>>>> What if we all got the ugliest dogs imaginable? Do you think that
>>>> would
>>> cut
>>>> down on the petting distractions?
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>> who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marsha Drenth
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 4:39 PM
>>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs
>>>>
>>>> Now here is where I have seen a improvement. My husband purchased me a
>>> sign
>>>> for my pup for the harness for Christmas, and she has been wearing it
>>>> since.
>>>> Granted not all that long. But I have had only one person try to pet
>>>> my
>>> pup
>>>> since. I don't think this person could read, and most likely had other
>>>> disabilities. Before, I had so many people try to pet her. I was
>>>> trying
>>> and
>>>> just dreaded going places because of the number of people who wanted
>>>> to
>>> pet
>>>> her. So in my situation, the sign has definetly worked wonders!
>>>>
>>>> JMO
>>>> Marsha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:43 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] harness signs was guide dogs
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the signs make any difference anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I have a sign on Monty's harness that says "Please don't pet me I'm
>>>> working". For folks who have difficulty with words there is also a
>>> picture
>>>> of a hand reaching to pet a dog with a giant red slash through it.
>>>> You'd
>>>> think people would get the hint, but they don't. I have noticed
>>>> absolutely
>>>> no difference in the amount of petafiles since I started with the
>>>> sign.
>>>>
>>>> Just today I had some guy reach out to pet Monty just as we're getting
>>>> ready
>>>>
>>>> to cross the street of all things. He explained that he had been
>>>> petting
>>>> the dog in training on the college campus earlier. As if that made it
>>> okay
>>>> or something. Torks me. But Monty got my revenge, he backed up and
>>>> gave
>>>> the death ray eyeball look. LOL Go Monty!
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Meghan" <meghan at n-republic.net>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 12:15 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > No, they don't give you a sign for the harness, but you get cards
>>>> that
>>>> you
>>>>
>>>> > can hand out.
>>>> >
>>>> > They make it clear that they discourage petting, but they advise you
>>>> on
>>>> > how to approach it if you are going to allow it, too.
>>>> >
>>>> > Hope that helps,
>>>> > Meghan
>>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>>> > From: "Jennifer L Finley" <jenniferfinley at embarqmail.com>
>>>> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2010 3:28 PM
>>>> > Subject: [nagdu] guide dogs
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >> Does the seeing eye have the please don't pet me signs? Do they
>>>> use
>>>> >> anything to let the public know to not pet the dog?
>>>> >> _______________________________________________
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>>>> >> nagdu:
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>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
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>>>> database 4926 (20100308) __________
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>>> --
>>> Jeanette Beal
>>> MS.Ed Assistive Technology
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