[nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street
cheryl echevarria
cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
Tue Mar 23 20:08:25 UTC 2010
I totally agree, but the conversation was getting into all different directions.
It should have just been left as wait and see and not everyone to play devils advocate. It is a good learning exercise for all of us.
Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Travel Consultant
http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/>
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----- Original Message -----
From: Tamara Smith-Kinney<mailto:tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street
Cheryl,
As a former driver turned full time pedestrian myself, I still get super
cheesed off at drivers who can't be bothered to follow the laws.
But you're right about the ins and outs of enforcement and who wins in a
real-life legal case.
Some days, when I'm waiting, and waiting and waiting... For cars to stop
for a crosswork -- in Oregon, they *are* required to stop for pedestrians at
intersections, whether there's a crosswalk there or not -- I do consider the
matter. If I'm crossing the street and one of these yo-yos hits me how will
it turn out in court... I even start to wonder how much I would get from
the law suit....
Then it occurs to me that since I would be the pedestrian struck by the car
in this case -- and worse! It would be my guide dog! -- I really do *not*
want to find out.
As for the Kennewick man who is and will be finding out, the best we can do
on a practical level is wait and see for now, then do our advocacy thing if
it's needed and step in to try to improve the legal system if we have to use
the organization to make things better for the next person...
For those who are more active in the advocacy and legislative functions of
NAGDU and the NFB, I think it is important to discuss and research and gain
understanding and plan an effective strategy so that they can lead us in the
right direction and use the organization's resources effectively.
I don't have anything particularly useful to say directly on how the law
should be inpreted or is likely to be or how effective it is.
I do appreciate the chance to learn from reading the discussion, however.
And just find myself hoping I'm not the next text case.
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 6:56 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick street
I have to put my 2 cents in here and I am sure it will be taken in different
ways.
I used to drive, I had my license since the age of 18 and I stopped driving
at the age of 35 so that is a long time. So you are saying that if I am
driving and not paying attention which sounds to me that is what happened
here because if the driver actually saw the pedestrian or any pedestrian and
lets face it crossing the streets safely doesn't make a whole lot of beans
here because I cross at crossing light with my dog, and the other day some
one was making the right on red and almost hit Maxx and yelled at me to get
out of the way.
So if that driver didn't stop and he saw me and it is his word against mine
that they would side with the driver that I shouldn't have been in the road.
People are going to lie to win there argument, and being a former legal
secretary and 3 credits away from being a paralegal, I have seen it all in
my former employers office. That people will lie to win, doesn't have to be
the truth or the law just what will win the case.
So who would have been at fault with Maxx and myself and this stupid person
yelling at me to move out of the way while I had the right of way. If he
hit me and I was almost at the other side of the street, I would have been
partially to blame it doesn't seem right to me.
Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Travel Consultant
http://Echevarriatravel.com<http://echevarriatravel.com/<http://echevarriatravel.com%3chttp//echevarriatravel.com/>>
1-866-580-5574
http://blog.echevarriatravel.com<http://blog.echevarriatravel.com/<http://blog.echevarriatravel.com%3chttp//blog.echevarriatravel.com/>>
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
----- Original Message -----
From: Marion Gwizdala<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net>>
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
street
Albert,
Let me ask you a question? If you were a licensed driver of a vehicle
traveling down a road at 45 MPH and a blind person, carrying a white cane
or
guided by a guide dog, stepped out in front of you, who is at fault for
the
crash? Should you, as the driver, be cited for the crash because the blind
person did not use due caution?
As for the issue of contributory or comparitive negligence, I am not
an
attorney, so I may not understand all of its technicalities, however, here
is what Florida statute states:
"The failure of any such person to carry a cane or walking stick or to be
guided by a dog shall not be considered comparative negligence, nor shall
such failure
be admissible as evidence in the trial of any civil action with regard to
negligence." (316.1301(3) f.s)
It seems as if the intent of this statute by the legislature is not to
limit the ability of a driver to bring a suit of negligence against a
blind
person, only to limit the arguments that can be used to assign the
contribution of each to the negligent act. Likewise, if a blind person is
crossing against the light or in a place where it would be unsafe to
cross,
it seems as if Florida's statutes could allow for an assignment of
comparitive negligence to the blind person for the crash!
The white cane law could also be argued to allow a blind person to
cross
an interstate highway. Would you also contend that doing so would be an
acceptable practice and, if a blind person is crossing a busy expressway
where pedestrians are not even allowed, and is struck by a vehicle, the
operator of the vehicle should be charged?
Fraternally yours,
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert J Rizzi"
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 1:30 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
street
> Will you clearly provide a reference which states this position you
take?
> Or
> can you clarify if this is how you choose to interpret the law. I am
> concerned others will misunderstand you here as I do, so I sent a few
> references from some states. Please show us where your laws say the
blind
> person is or can be considered contributoraly negligent if hit buy the
> driver of a vehicle..
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 10:03 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
> street
>
> Tracy,
> I am not implying that it is the blind guy's fault. I am only saying
> that the white cane law does not excuse the blind person from using due
> caution while crossing!
>
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net<mailto:carcione at access.net<mailto:carcione at access.net%3Cmailto:carcione at access.net>>>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
> Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 8:47 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Washington - Guide dog killed crossing Kennewick
> street
>
>
>> Marion, while it's true that the blind person could be responsible, it
>> seems to me that the assumption is just that--blind guy gets hit, blind
>> guy is at fault. It ain't necessarily so.
>> I've heard that, many years ago, if a blind person was hit and brought
>> the
>> case to court, it would be dismissed or the blind person would lose.
We
>> were assumed to have been negligent just because we were walking around
>> outside without a sighted keeper.
>> I think that law has changed, but I'm not so sure about the underlying
>> assumption.
>>
>> We have to be careful, of course. We can't go bounding out into the
>> street without trying to make sure it's safe to go, as best we can.
But
>> the White Cane law says that drivers also have some responsibility not
to
>> turn on top of us, or back out over us, or whatever. It doesn't seem
too
>> much to ask.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
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