[nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?

Wed Mar 31 04:12:04 UTC 2010

Hi Michelle,
You've got it right, I'd say. (grin!)  I think this problem goes way beynd 
blindness. People have a hard time putting themselves into the place of 
someone who is different than they are. You don't know what it is to be 
partially sighted and I don't know what it is to be totally blind. Is one 
better than the other -  a big NO on that score!

that's why people need to talk and learn from each other in a respectful 
way. No, you aren't rude at all! (grin!)  There was some rude behavior on 
this list recently so I just stayed out of it and deleted the posts after 
reading some of them.

I believe in diversity and enjoy the differences we all have as people no 
matter what our differences are. We all have our own lives and experiences 
to share - that's how we truely learn about each other and how we see life.

Take care all and love up your dogs!

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michelle" <m-johnson at bigpond.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:18 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?

> Hi,
>
> (No rudeness intended so please excuse me) I'm totally blond myself. I 
> don't know what it's like to have some vision, but I've always found that 
> people with some vision generally don't seem (emphasis added) to 
> understand what it's like to be totally blind. That's why we make these 
> judgements, I guess. And vice versa. And also other sighted people we may 
> know and the general public make the same judgements because of what they 
> see of totals and partials. Correct if I'm wrong in any of these points.
>
> Michelle
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 1:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Sometimes I see totals begrudging the partials their sight.  I've seen 
>> this
>> with partials using guide dogs.  the total will say something like, "So 
>> and
>> So has too much vision so they shouldn't be using a guide dog."  I tell 
>> them
>> that thoise of us partials who use dogs have enough of a vision ;loss to
>> warrent guide dog use. I have tunnel vision and miss everything that 
>> isn't
>> exactly where my eye happens to be pointed at - I miss alot that way.
>> Also, I have no vision at night or in dark places.  And, the guide dog
>> schools won't give a dog to someone with too much sight to use the dog
>> properly.
>>
>> There seems to be this hierarchy much like with blacks.  The lightskinned
>> people are somehow "better" than dark skinned people. Partials are also
>> "better" than totals.  I saw this among  my friends who wwent to blind
>> schools.
>>
>> I think blind people get judged on mobility skills because that's what 
>> the
>> public sees most.  they don't see you cook or keep house.  But they see 
>> you
>> on the street.  They think a cane touching stuff means that the person 
>> can't
>> travel well - as if the cane will magically steer one around objects! 
>> They
>> think we are lost when we are listening to the envirnment to gain our
>> bearings.
>>
>> Also, we get judged by the actions of a blind person. Well, so and so 
>> lets
>> me pet their dog!  Oh, so and so can recognise my voice after hearing it
>> once.  Or that so and so can do that - why can't you!  That sort of 
>> thing.
>>
>> As a person who has been "legally blind" all my life I've seen alot.  My
>> vision has deteriorated over the years and I've adapted to that. But you
>> recent comers to blindness, you come to it after living many years as a
>> sighted person without any stigma.  You are right toi take offense to the
>> treatment you get - we hate it, too! (grin!)
>>
>> Yes, we need to stick together and quit being so critical of each other! 
>> We
>> can disagree on stuff but I've seen some downright hateful stuff being 
>> said
>> to people over the years and that's not good.
>>
>> Take care of yourselves, your dogs, and each other!
>>
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Charlene Ota" <caota at hawaii.rr.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 5:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>>
>>
>>>I think you're right, Julie, and people can be very hard on each other
>>>about
>>> it, too. Sometimes, I've seen dog users really be hard on each other, 
>>> too,
>>> even about their dogs and what they can or can't, will or won't do, and
>>> their behavior in public. I wish we gave each other more cedit for what 
>>> we
>>> accomplish than pick on each other for the little things we do 
>>> different.
>>> Sometimes people also forget that some of us have other issues than just
>>> blindness to deal with as well that affect our mobility and travel 
>>> skills.
>>> Thinking about it, it strikes me a little funny, we want to be treated 
>>> as
>>> individuals by the sighted world, but we fall into expecting ourselves 
>>> to
>>> all have the same skill set as a group of blind people when in reality, 
>>> we
>>> are all different.
>>>
>>> I've observed something that's always been interesting to me as a blind
>>> person all my life, and that is that sometimes people who have never had
>>> vision have some pretty amazing ideas about what vision is. Like, that
>>> when
>>> a person sees, they see everything. A sighted person, for example,
>>> shouldn't
>>> trip over something or miss a friend when they're walking down the 
>>> street
>>> or
>>> miss the spot on the front of their shirt or whatever you want. Somehow 
>>> if
>>> you can see you can see it all at all times. I haven't seen myself, but 
>>> I
>>> know I've seen this happen in various degrees with different people. If 
>>> we
>>> live long enough and associate with enough people, we find out that
>>> sighted
>>> people have their shortcomings, too. (smile!)
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Steve Johnson
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 12:11 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>>>
>>> Hmmm, that is quite the interesting question Julie.  I find myself
>>> engaging
>>> in conversations with my peers many times indeed surrounding that of
>>> travel,
>>> but not necessarily judging them, but maybe rather comparing and
>>> contrasting
>>> our methods of travel when using a guide, cane and then transitioning
>>> these
>>> skills into our everyday routines.  Sometimes, we may also compare our
>>> employment and how were we were able to achieve a level of
>>> gainful/meaningful employment, while other times maybe our involvement 
>>> and
>>> contributions to the greater blind community.  But all in all, and I am
>>> looking and thinking of my blind peers primarily involved in our local 
>>> NFB
>>> chapter, we tend not to judge, but feed off of each others strengths, 
>>> and
>>> become a stronger united group by this.  It is pretty cool to see how 
>>> this
>>> concept fosters the leadership that we need within the movement, and
>>> somehow
>>> creates a fairly well-balanced front.
>>>
>>> Just my immediate thoughts,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 3:27 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: [nagdu] mobility-the deciding factor?
>>>
>>> Some of the recent discussion got me to thinking about how we, as blind
>>> people, perceive independence or who is more capable than who.   It 
>>> seems
>>> that we always use travel to judge who has better skills than who.  I 
>>> know
>>> we have discussed this before, but I still have no clue why we don't use
>>> Braille or cooking or something else to base our judgments on.  I'm 
>>> guilty
>>> of it too.  I've caught myself thinking if not actually saying that so 
>>> and
>>> so isn't as well adjusted as they could be because they are always 
>>> needing
>>> help to get places.
>>>
>>> I happen to be a very good traveler with cane or dog.  But you know 
>>> what?
>>> I
>>> read Braille at about 40 wpm.  By any measure that's slow, like
>>> incredibly,
>>> snails pace slow.  But no one has ever said to me, "You know, you should
>>> really attend a center where you could get better Braille skills so you
>>> could be more independent."
>>>
>>> Then there is the kitchen...I really like to cook.  Generally I'm okay 
>>> in
>>> the kitchen.  I cook most meals from scratch.  But, getting the meat,
>>> especially the chicken, thoroughly cooked is a constant stress for me.
>>> I'm
>>> frequently freaked out about whether or not there is any pink in the 
>>> meat.
>>> I know the skills.  I know how to check nonvisually, but I totally and
>>> completely lack chicken confidence.
>>>
>>> Am I crazy?  or don't you think that blind people always judge other 
>>> blind
>>> people on the basis of travel skills and virtually nothing else?
>>>
>>> thoughts?
>>> Julie
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>>
>>
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