[nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?

Wed Apr 6 15:24:40 UTC 2011

Sarah,

Yes!  They also tend to live longer than most other large breeds, so that's
a plus.  The figures I remember are 14 to 20 years for a standard poodle.
Mitzi's on a permanent Live Forever command, and I fully expect her to obey
it!  /grin/  Still, I like the idea of having her around for another 10 to
15 years.  I'm not sure how to plan a time frame for her replacemet, though,
since I want to start with a very young puppy and can plan on around 2 years
to have a fully trained guide...  Who will have been co-raised and mentored
by Mitzi!  That's a few years off, though, so I don't lay awake nights.  I
just like to plan ahead is all.  People who know poodles assure me I can
count on her remaining active and energetic and playful as she is now until
sometime after she's put in the ground.  When they say boundless energy, as
it applies to poodles, apparently they mean the boundless part literally.
/lol/

So when it comes to reaching full psychosocial maturity, you can expect your
poodle to become an adult between 3 and 5 years.  Females, they say, tend to
mature more quickly than males that way.  With Mitzi, I would say she didn't
*really* grow up until around 4, and I've seen signs of increasing maturity
even through the last year.  She's been  really stable for several months,
though, so it seems she has become who she's going to be.  I am very happy
with that dog!

So when it comes to poodles, I am glad that the programs which produce them
as guides do wait for the maturity to develop a bit more.  In addition to a
long puppyhood and adolescence, poodles do definitely have a distinctive
temperament which needs managing.  It seems those programs which have gotten
successful poodle lines going in recent years have adapted to the
temperament in their raising and training methods somewhat.  Certainly I
changed my own training plan to adapt to my poodle pup, and finally  just
gave it up and winged it.  /lol/  I've heard that poodles are very like
Arabian horses that way, and I've had enough experience training and adoring
Arabians or Arabian crosses that I ended up translating that horsey
experience to Mitzi far more than my herding dog expeirence.  /smile/  The
key is managing the energy by providing an outlet for it and convincing the
poodle to cooperate with you as a partner.  Once you convince your poodle
you're worthy, it will go to the ends of the earth for you... If not exactly
in the way you had planned.  /grin/

Gary, who is working a young poodle guide, and Jenine Stanley who works for
a program that produces poodles, can tell you more about what to expect from
a program perspective when a poodle becomes available for you.  That long
wait is a bummer!  I was looking into programs poodles back when they were
just coming on the scene here, because my then husband had allergies out the
wazoo...  By the time I was ready to go forward with getting a guide and
getting myself on a waiting list, I had divorced him and thus the need for a
poodle guide...  Then I decided to owner train and ended up going poodle
instead of dobie or shepherd.  I really lucked out with Mitzi!

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sarah Clark
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:29 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?

I was told by someone at one of the schools that poodles tend to mature more

slowly than the labs, so they tend to stay in their puppy homes longer and 
they take longer to go through training.  Has anyone else heard this?

Sarah & Miguel

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?

> Rox,
>
> Way to go Laveau!
>
> So Mitzi poodle was trained in terms of having the skills down by 18
> monmths, but I chose to let her go to 24 months before I considered her
> graduated.  She did do some full working trips and handled it very well, 
> but
> I didn't want to put a full-time guide dog burden on her because I was
> concerned about her maturity and how much it might strees her and how that
> might affect her future work...
>
> Then again, I was 8very* aware that my poodle pup was burdened with a 
> total
> newbie self-taught -- and still working on it -- handler, so asking her to
> take full respsonsibility under those conditions seemed a bit much!
>
> Reviewing that period of our lives together now, I'm thinking that I could
> have let her work progress with her knowledge much more rapidly, assuming 
> I
> knew what I know now.  And what I hope to know by the time I do it all 
> over
> again in a few years.  /smile/
>
> She was still really, really puppy at 18 months, though, and it was tough
> for her to work for long periods without showing signs of having had too
> much...  One reason I keep thinking dobie is that they do seem to "grow 
> up"
> more quickly than poodles, while having some of those same character 
> traits
> I really adore in Mitzi.  Even mellow poodles like Mitzi are wound pretty
> tight, much like their curls.  /lol/
>
> Of course, Mitzi has DD hooked on poodles, so I may find myself doing the
> whole poodle thing all over again, just 10 years older.  I'd better start
> catching up on my rest!  /grin/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of The Pawpower Pack
> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:43 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>
> Steve,
>
> I totally agree with you here.  Bristol was a program trained dog
> issued at 18 months.  She was very matured and retired due to medical
> reasons.  The dog I had gotten before that was issued at 24 months and
> was very immature.
>
> I start formal harness training around 12-14 months and usually my
> dogs are finished between 18-20 months.  My border collie, Gracy
> didn't really grow up until she was 4, and she retired when she was
> 7.  Laveau was born mature, I think and she guided me around Boston
> (which was a totally new city for her) when she was 15 months old and
> her work was flawless.
> It really just depends on the dog, I think.
>
>
>
> Rox and the Botanical Barkers:
> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
> "The only problem with troubleshooting is, sometimes, trouble shoots
> back."
> http://www.pawpowercreations.com
> pawpower4me at gmail.com
> AIM: Brissysgirl
>
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