[nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?

Julie J julielj at neb.rr.com
Thu Apr 7 12:20:30 UTC 2011 

Lisa,

I just wanted to clarify that Monty wasn't a guide dog at 8  months old. 
That's when I got him, but I owner train.  Monty was a slower maturing dog. 
His training didn't actually take too long, but I drug it out for 15 months 
because he simply didn't have the maturity to work as a guide before then. 
So he was about 24 months when he started working as a full time guide dog.

When I read my message back I realized this might not have been clear.

Julie


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 2:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?


> My analogy will be a far stretch of the imagination, but hear me out, 
> please.
>
> We have child labor laws for a reason. We also have retirement guidelines 
> for a reason. There are reasons why dog guide schools advise retirement of 
> guide dogs at what ever age your school advises. My intended point is 
> this. we need to protect the health and psychological well being of our 
> dogs; yes, our dogs. Our guides are dogs first. Most of us know that the 
> life of a guide dog is tension filled and stressful too. To me, it's more 
> humane to let these guys be puppies first. The thought of a dog guide 
> working, and that is what is, at a very young age troubles me the more I 
> contemplate this topic.
>
> Lisa and Bernie
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Julie J" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 11:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>
>
>>I can vouch for at least my Boxer mix taking a while to mature.
>>
>> Things I noticed before I considered him mature were: difficulty in 
>> remaining focused on a task, interest in all sorts of things to the point 
>> of distraction, inability to process multiple streams of information at 
>> once, inability to make complex decisions and difficulty with staying in 
>> one place for long stretches.
>>
>> When I first got him he was around 8-9 months old.  He peed on the floor, 
>> stole food off the counter, dug holes in the yard, jumped up on people 
>> and chewed up pillows among other things.  These behaviors are all pretty 
>> typical of puppies, but I wouldn't necessarily call them a lack of 
>> maturity. You could have a mature dog that did all of these things due to 
>> poor training, health problems or other reasons.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2011 10:51 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>
>>
>>> Yes.  Besides Poodles, I think German shepherds, Boxers, Curly Coated 
>>> Retrievers all need more time to mature.  It also varies from dog to 
>>> dog.
>>>
>>> Now to all you who responded with how young your dog or someone else's 
>>> dog was, what kinds of behaviors did you see in these dogs.
>>>
>>> Personally, I've see less puppy behavior and chewing in dogs that are 22 
>>> months or more when they were issued.  I've noticed this in class and in 
>>> my own dogs in general.
>>>
>>> Lyn and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Sarah Clark" <goldflash9 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 8:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>
>>>
>>>>I was told by someone at one of the schools that poodles tend to mature 
>>>>more slowly than the labs, so they tend to stay in their puppy homes 
>>>>longer and they take longer to go through training.  Has anyone else 
>>>>heard this?
>>>>
>>>> Sarah & Miguel
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 6:07 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Rox,
>>>>>
>>>>> Way to go Laveau!
>>>>>
>>>>> So Mitzi poodle was trained in terms of having the skills down by 18
>>>>> monmths, but I chose to let her go to 24 months before I considered 
>>>>> her
>>>>> graduated.  She did do some full working trips and handled it very 
>>>>> well, but
>>>>> I didn't want to put a full-time guide dog burden on her because I was
>>>>> concerned about her maturity and how much it might strees her and how 
>>>>> that
>>>>> might affect her future work...
>>>>>
>>>>> Then again, I was 8very* aware that my poodle pup was burdened with a 
>>>>> total
>>>>> newbie self-taught -- and still working on it -- handler, so asking 
>>>>> her to
>>>>> take full respsonsibility under those conditions seemed a bit much!
>>>>>
>>>>> Reviewing that period of our lives together now, I'm thinking that I 
>>>>> could
>>>>> have let her work progress with her knowledge much more rapidly, 
>>>>> assuming I
>>>>> knew what I know now.  And what I hope to know by the time I do it all 
>>>>> over
>>>>> again in a few years.  /smile/
>>>>>
>>>>> She was still really, really puppy at 18 months, though, and it was 
>>>>> tough
>>>>> for her to work for long periods without showing signs of having had 
>>>>> too
>>>>> much...  One reason I keep thinking dobie is that they do seem to 
>>>>> "grow up"
>>>>> more quickly than poodles, while having some of those same character 
>>>>> traits
>>>>> I really adore in Mitzi.  Even mellow poodles like Mitzi are wound 
>>>>> pretty
>>>>> tight, much like their curls.  /lol/
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, Mitzi has DD hooked on poodles, so I may find myself doing 
>>>>> the
>>>>> whole poodle thing all over again, just 10 years older.  I'd better 
>>>>> start
>>>>> catching up on my rest!  /grin/
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami Smith-Kinney
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of The Pawpower Pack
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 4:43 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Issuing dogs at 18 months - is it too young?
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve,
>>>>>
>>>>> I totally agree with you here.  Bristol was a program trained dog
>>>>> issued at 18 months.  She was very matured and retired due to medical
>>>>> reasons.  The dog I had gotten before that was issued at 24 months and
>>>>> was very immature.
>>>>>
>>>>> I start formal harness training around 12-14 months and usually my
>>>>> dogs are finished between 18-20 months.  My border collie, Gracy
>>>>> didn't really grow up until she was 4, and she retired when she was
>>>>> 7.  Laveau was born mature, I think and she guided me around Boston
>>>>> (which was a totally new city for her) when she was 15 months old and
>>>>> her work was flawless.
>>>>> It really just depends on the dog, I think.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Rox and the Botanical Barkers:
>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>>> "The only problem with troubleshooting is, sometimes, trouble shoots
>>>>> back."
>>>>> http://www.pawpowercreations.com
>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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