[nagdu] the body language workshop

Lisa Irving lirving1234 at cox.net
Thu Apr 14 03:31:27 UTC 2011 

Don't bother shaming yourself. Most of us do the oops, did I just say that, 
thing now and again. I don't want to be a jerk. I also don't feel the need 
to minimize my internal experiences.

Lisa and Bernie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tamara Smith-Kinney" <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] the body language workshop


> Oh, that's a really good description of the phenomenon.  I find it very
> useful just reading it in dealing with my own occasional internal dilemmas
> and distraction.  /smile/
>
> So either the first or second time someone came up with sight impaired, I
> felt distracted and thought it was a dreadfully awkward phrase, but we 
> kept
> on chatting and stuff ...  At some point, I heard or felt something and
> reacted accordingly -- I think I picked something up off a counter or the
> ground or ...  I don't remember.  It was no big, just an everyday little
> thing.
>
> The person gasped and expressed their amazement at my extraordinary
> accomplishment, since they hadn't even noticed it there, and yet here I 
> was
> finding it an d picking it up...  /lol/  Of course, I still had the sight
> impaired bit working itself around in my mind.  I had already taken a deep
> breath and opened my mouth before I caught myself and didn't say what was
> about to come out:  "That's because I'm not impaired with all that sight 
> you
> have to put up with!"
>
> I nearly choked myself coughing from the effort of stopping myself and
> covering.
>
> I know *how* to mind my manners, but deep down inside I am a very, very 
> bad
> girl.  /lol/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:34 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] the body language workshop
>
> I don't think she had any particular discomfort with me or the concept of
> blindness, more than the ordinary level anyway.  It was more like she was
> trying really, really hard to be politically correct, but kind of over did
> it.  I wasn't offended or upset over her choice of language.  It was just
> weird and I kind of got stuck in my head thinking about it every time she
> used the phrase.
>
> It would be like saying vertically challenged instead of short.  It's such
> an odd statement that it draws your attention away from the entirety of 
> the
> dialogue and you focus in on that one descriptor to the exclusion of all
> else.  No big deal, really, just awkward.
>
> JMO
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "PICKRELL, REBECCA M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] the body language workshop
>
>
>> I've hesitated to post on this thread.
>> The couple that ran the fife and drum corps I marched with never said the
>> word "blind" around me or about me. It was always "sightless" with a long
>> pause before they would nearly whisper the word.
>> It didn't bother me. These guys didn't bat an eye when I told them I
>> wanted to march. They admitted they didn't know how I would but assured 
>> me
>
>> we'd figure it out which we did. They gave me the same opportunities that
>> everybody else was given.  I was expected to behave according to the 
>> rules
>
>> of the corps.  I was given the same privileges everybody else was given.
>>
>> I learned an incredible amount from them. Some of the gems are
>> "Whenever a boy says "trust me" don't.
>> An engagement only counts if you have a ring and a date, otherwise the 
>> guy
>
>> just wants to sleep with you.
>> The words used in Basic training are very bad. No, I will not tell you
>> what they are, and you'd better not use any of them.
>> Somebody you care about will always find out when you do something you're
>> not supposed to. Think before you disappoint that person.
>>
>> Keep in mind, this was a group for children and teens.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 11:55 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] the body language workshop
>>
>> Yes, the presenter was rather odd in many respects, not just her choice 
>> of
>> "hard of seeing".  I wanted to say something, but it seemed kind of rude
>> to
>> interrupt her lecture to point out her odd choice of phrasing. Except for
>> the weird choice of words, what she said about blindness and body 
>> language
>> was pretty good.
>>
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Lisa Irving" <lirving1234 at cox.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2011 8:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] the body language workshop
>>
>>
>>> I'm still hung up on the presenter's term, "hard of seeing". What the
>>> heck! I had a similar experience at a diversity training work shop. Go
>>> figure.
>>>
>>> Lisa and Bernie
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Julie J" <julielj at neb.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2011 1:00 PM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] the body language workshop
>>>
>>>
>>>> Heya all!
>>>>
>>>> I just got back from that body language workshop I talked about a few
>>>> weeks ago.  I did learn some new things, but mostly it was common sense
>>>> things...eye contact is good, staring is considered intimidating and
>>>> lack
>>>> of eye contact is interpreted as hiding something.  There was lots more
>>>> stuff like that.  She did a pretty good job of addressing physical
>>>> issues
>>>> that could contribute to a difference in body language, a deaf/hard of
>>>> hearing person not responding to a question or a visually impaired
>>>> person
>>>> not responding to a waved greeting.  Although it was extremely annoying
>>>> that she used the term "hard of seeing".
>>>>
>>>> She talked a lot about open and closed postures.  They are pretty much
>>>> exactly what you'd think.  closed is head down, eyes averted, arms
>>>> and/or
>>>> legs crossed, hands in pockets and the body turned away.  All of these
>>>> indicate a closed affect.  She never really did get clear about what
>>>> exactly this means.  To the best of my understanding it can be 
>>>> different
>>>> depending on the person and the situation.  Closed body language can
>>>> indicate nervousness, lack of repor, lack of interest,being
>>>> uncomfortable
>>>> or generally not wanting to participate in the conversation.
>>>>
>>>> Open body language is just the opposite.  Generally you would face your
>>>> belly button toward the other person with it not covered by crossed
>>>> arms.
>>>> Looking toward the person, palms open held out such as in a high five,
>>>> wave or handshake, leaning forward and head held up  are all open body
>>>> language.  Generally these all indicate a willingness to communicate or
>>>> interest in the other person.
>>>>
>>>> To gain repor with another person she suggested mimicking their body
>>>> language.  they have their hands in pockets, you put your hands in
>>>> pockets.  They rest their chin on their hand you do the same.  This is
>>>> supposed to give people a feeling of sameness and familiarity.  Once
>>>> this
>>>> repor is established you can do something using your body language and
>>>> the other person will mimic your action.  In this way you can steer a
>>>> person toward feeling more comfortable with you.
>>>>
>>>> All that said, I want to relate what happened when I first entered the
>>>> classroom.  I didn't tell them in advance that I'm blind, have a guide
>>>> dog and I didn't request any accommodations.  I wasn't taking this
>>>> workshop for any particular reason other than personal interest.  and
>>>> part of me wanted to find out just exactly how an instructor teaching
>>>> body language would handle a blind person in their class.  So as I'm
>>>> walking by trying to navigate the maze of tables to find a seat, the
>>>> instructor flies out of her chair and moves toward Monty and me fast
>>>> enough that Monty felt it important to move me out of her way.  While
>>>> she's moving toward me she's rattling off question after question
>>>> without
>>>> even a breath in between, "What's his name?Can I pet him? and then she
>>>> reaches for Monty.  You guys have heard enough of my stories by now to
>>>> know that Monty is not fond of weirdoes touching him.  Come to think of
>>>> it, I'm not either, so I can totally understand where he's coming from.
>>>> Monty backs away from her hand as I'm telling her that he's not into
>>>> strangers touching him.  Fortunately she had sense enough to back off
>>>> and
>>>> sit back down.
>>>>
>>>> For the next three hours I was thinking about this interaction and 
>>>> what
>>>> I could have done to prevent it in the context of body language.  I
>>>> didn't make eye contact with her.  I didn't even know she was there
>>>> until
>>>> she started spouting all her questions.  I wasn't facing her.  I had
>>>> intentionally turned away from her and put myself in between her and
>>>> Monty.  I didn't smile, nod or make any other gestures that were
>>>> mentioned in the workshop that could have been interpreted as an
>>>> invitation to come accost my dog.
>>>>
>>>> So what I am left with is that people are nutters and no amount of
>>>> amazing body language skills are going to keep them at bay.   Or maybe
>>>> because of my body language she got the hint and sat back down quickly.
>>>> Perhaps body language can't prevent encounters, but it can end them 
>>>> more
>>>> quickly.  I don't know.
>>>>
>>>> Julie
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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