[nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportationproviders

Sat Jul 30 16:12:16 UTC 2011

Hello Everyone,  I am very interested in reading all of your responses to 
Marion's     question.  I have applied for my first guide dog an I know that 
once I return home with the dog I will have some walls that I will need to 
bring down.  So therefore I am very open to read how all of you react to 
different situations.

Thanks,
Anita

e-mail: abbrown6211 at charter.net
facebook.: anitabb1 at facebook.com
skype: anita.brown27
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion Gwizdala" <blind411 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other 
transportationproviders

> Dear All,
>    Let me share with you an actual experience I had. I am a professional 
> entertainer, a solo act generally necessitating the use of a cab. Many of 
> the cabbies in my area with the company I usually use, know me and like 
> transporting me because I was a cab driver when I was sighted and going to 
> school. I say this because I know the importance of a good tip. BTW, the 
> word "tip" is actually an acronym that stands for "to insure promptness".
>    One morning after a gig (about 3:00 am) I called for a cab. I did not 
> tell them I had a dog; however, my cell number is associated with my call 
> and there is a file on everyone who calls for a cab with some information, 
> such as the person's name and address. Well, my file apparently indicated 
> that I had a service dog. I waited an unusual length of time for a cab 
> home. When the cabbie arrived, he said he came in from the airport (about 
> 45 minutes from where I was) because no one was bidding on the ride. He 
> told me the dispatcher was asking, "Anyone in zone 58 willing to transport 
> a dog?" The cabbie said he knew it was me and, since no one else bid on 
> it, he knew it was worth the trip in to pick me up.
>    I called the company the following day and filed a complaint with the 
> county Public Transportation Comission, alleging I was discriminated 
> against by the company because my file was flagged as having a service 
> dog, resulting in an unequal benefit. The ADA states
>
> "
> (ii) Participation in unequal benefit. It shall be discriminatory to 
> afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a disability 
> or disabilities
>
> of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual, licensing, 
> or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or benefit 
> from a
>
> good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that is 
> not equal to that afforded to other individuals." (
>
> 42 USC 12182.)
>
>
>
> Whether the place of public accommodation is a taxicab, hotel, health care 
> facility, restaurant, or any other place, the presence of your service 
> animal is irrelevant. By notifying them in advance that you will be 
> accompanied by a service animal, you passively communicate that this is 
> something they need to know about and, therefore, that there is something 
> they need to do. Not knowing what that "something" might be, they will 
> certainly make something up, setting you up for discrimination. 
> Furthermore, alerting them in advance sends the message that this is 
> proper protocol and, when someone does not provide advance notice, sets up 
> an adversarial situation.
>
>    I pose the following question on this topic for debate: What is the 
> reason for giving advance notice that you will be accompanied by a service 
> dog? I ask this question in an effort to offer a challenge to this 
> practice. I promise my challenges will be respectful and dignified, 
> definitely not attacking. This is a great issue for lively, respectful 
> debate!
>
>
>
> Fraternally yours,
>
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Michael Hingson" <mhingson at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 7:58 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportation providers
>
>
> All,
>
> I am with Marion on this.  Although some may feel that there is no wrong
> answer I think that at some point we need to take a stand.  I personally
> have found many instances when I gave advanced notification either I had
> long delays, staff sent a huge van to take me instead of a taxi which in
> turn caused delays, or other rules about how my dog was suppose to be
> transported were made up.
>
> The law is clear that we and our guides are to be treated the same as any
> other passenger.  There is no excuse for any company providing
> transportation to the public insisting on advanced notice for our guides.
> There is no excuse for any such company permitting any of its drivers or
> pilots to discriminate against us.
>
> At the same time I do understand why some on this list take a different
> tact.  While I will not say advanced notice is wrong I would encourage
> everyone to work toward taking a strong stance.  If we do not company
> personnel will never learn that discriminating against us is wrong.
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Michael Hingson
>
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
> availability please visit www.michaelhingson.com
> Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr_
> 1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
>
>
> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:05 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>
> Gary and all,
>    I generally advise that one not give advance notice that we will be
> traveling with a guide dog. The presence of the service dog is irrelevant 
> to
>
> whether or not they transport you. If the dispatcher broadcasts, "I'm
> looking for someone willing to take a fare with a dog!" you may wait 
> longer
> for a ride than if they didn't know. This sets you up for the type of
> discrimination known as an unequal benefit. I have dealt with several 
> people
>
> who gave advance notice and regretted it because of the long wait times.
> JMHO!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "GARY STEEVES" <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
>
>
>>
>> Hi:
>>
>> Generally, I don't have a problem just telling the company I have a dog
>> since, if there is the potential for an issue this should remove it. The
>> issue I have and am going to talk to my current cab company about is that
>> they have one letter symbols for things. I learned this two weeks ago 
>> when
>
>> three trips in a row I got a van cab. I found out that my file had a V 
>> for
>
>> van and A for animal. I think they need to add another symbol that
>> represents service dogs since an animal is a bit vague. I got cabs who
>> don't mind dogs but sometimes I think they believe it is a pet, 
>> especially
>
>> cuz it's a poodle which they never see as guide dogs. Also, being that we
>> are getting picked up right in front of my house and I've usually just
>> been walking bogart around the block for his morning relief, he is often
>> not in harness. the harness is in  my hand. However, why I use the same
>> company all the time is so that many drivers get to know me and often 
>> show
>
>> up with the front passenger seat put way forward to
>> give Bogart more room and cute things like that.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tami Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net>
>> Date: Friday, July 29, 2011 2:34 pm
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>
>>> Lyn,
>>>
>>> Well said. When I lived nearer to downtown, I would just tell the
>>> dispatcher about the dog, although it seems they do have a note about
>>> her attached to my number. This actually worked in my favor
>>> there, where
>>> you couldn't swing a cat without hitting one of their cabs. Now I'm
>>> still in the Portland Metro area, but apparently this does not prevent
>>> me living in the boonies as far as the cab companies are
>>> concerned. So
>>> I've learned to just fail to mention anything at all about a dog or
>>> being blind or anything because that does seem to increase the
>>> odds a
>>> cab will get out here eventually. I've tried a couple of other
>>> companiesthat supposedly serve this area, but... Sigh. Anyway,
>>> if they want to
>>> drive all the way out here and then refuse to take my dog, I
>>> guess I'll
>>> be putting up a big fuss about that, won't I? /evil grin/
>>>
>>> Then again, what with having a private driver and on-demand car
>>> serviceright here, I guess I won't be giving many cabby's an
>>> opportunity to
>>> refuse me a ride because of my dog.  Ain't that just too
>>> bad for
>>> me. /lol/
>>>
>>> Either way, with cabs or hotel reservations or whatever, I tend
>>> to do
>>> what I believe is most likely to achieve the best results when
>>> it comes
>>> to deciding whether to mention the dog beforehand or not. Which
>>> does not
>>> mean I always make the right guess, but I have had few hassles, so
>>> that's what matters to me. /smile/
>>>
>>> Tami
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 12:42 -0700, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
>>> > I agree with you, Bibi.  I will tell the cab dispach that
>>> I have a guide dog
>>> > and to just send a driver who has no problem with a dog.
>>> this way, I get my
>>> > cab and no BSing with the driver.  People do what you
>>> feel is best for you.
>>> > There's no right or wrong in this matter.
>>> >
>>> > Lyn and Landon
>>> > ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> > From: "Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire"
>>> <orleans24 at comcast.net>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National
>>> Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:54 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > Hi, Brenda,
>>> > > I remember when attending a couple of guide dog schools and
>>> not hearing
>>> > > one word or thing mentioned about if being asked by a cab
>>> driver to put
>>> > > the dog in a trunk of the car.
>>> > > Thankfully, I've not had any experiences with that and
>>> hopefully with my
>>> > > fourth guide, that won't happen either.
>>> > > I know many people here won't agree with what I'm about to
>>> say here, but
>>> > > here it goes...
>>> > > There were times I'd just go ahead and let the cab company
>>> know that I
>>> > > have a guide dog and it did help and minimize a possible problem.
>>> > > In the same aspect, I'd get a cab quickly too.
>>> > > I only would do this during stressful situations to avoid
>>> getting
>>> > > frustrated around Odie.
>>> > > He is one sensitive boy who would pick up on my anxiety
>>> rather quickly.
>>> > > If I knew where that dog handler was living here in
>>> Colorado, I'd gladly
>>> > > help her out or at least be willing to give her some
>>> encouragement and
>>> > > advice on dealing with situations like that.
>>> > > unfortunately, I have no idea if she lives in Denver or
>>> another city close
>>> > > by to me.
>>> > > If someone told me to put Odie in the trunk, I'd happily say
>>> right on tthe
>>> > > spot, "Would you like it if I just rolled you up and stuck
>>> you in that
>>> > > area?"
>>> > > I know. I'm a tough person when it comes to stuff like that.
>>> > > *Smiles*
>>> > > Bibi and Odie
>>> > > the retired one
>>> > >
>>> > > _______________________________________________
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>>> >
>>> >
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