[nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportationproviders
Marion Gwizdala
blind411 at verizon.net
Sat Jul 30 22:32:51 UTC 2011
The teleseminar is on August 21 at 8:00 pm.
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "cheryl echevarria" <cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
transportationproviders
> oops, I have my first board meeting of travel and tourism, I might have to
> bow out. President Gwizdala, what time is it for?
>
>
> Leading the Way in Independent Travel!
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> http://www.echevarriatravel.com<http://www.echevarriatravel.com/>
> 631-456-5394
> reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
>
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Absolute Cruise & Travel,
> Inc.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marion Gwizdala<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net>
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 5:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
> transportationproviders
>
>
> Anita,
> You might want to plan on attending our upcoming teleconference
> "Service
> Animals in Places of public accommodation" on Sunday August 21. The seats
> are filling up quickly. We have 40 registrants in less than one week!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anita" <abbrown6211 at charter.net<mailto:abbrown6211 at charter.net>>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 12:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
> transportationproviders
>
>
> > Hello Everyone, I am very interested in reading all of your responses
> to
> > Marion's question. I have applied for my first guide dog an I know
> > that once I return home with the dog I will have some walls that I will
> > need to bring down. So therefore I am very open to read how all of you
> > react to different situations.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Anita
> >
> > e-mail: abbrown6211 at charter.net<mailto:abbrown6211 at charter.net>
> > facebook.: anitabb1 at facebook.com<mailto:anitabb1 at facebook.com>
> > skype: anita.brown27
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Marion Gwizdala"
> <blind411 at verizon.net<mailto:blind411 at verizon.net>>
> > To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> > Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other
> > transportationproviders
> >
> >
> >> Dear All,
> >> Let me share with you an actual experience I had. I am a
> professional
> >> entertainer, a solo act generally necessitating the use of a cab. Many
> of
> >> the cabbies in my area with the company I usually use, know me and
> like
> >> transporting me because I was a cab driver when I was sighted and
> going
> >> to school. I say this because I know the importance of a good tip.
> BTW,
> >> the word "tip" is actually an acronym that stands for "to insure
> >> promptness".
> >> One morning after a gig (about 3:00 am) I called for a cab. I did
> not
> >> tell them I had a dog; however, my cell number is associated with my
> call
> >> and there is a file on everyone who calls for a cab with some
> >> information, such as the person's name and address. Well, my file
> >> apparently indicated that I had a service dog. I waited an unusual
> length
> >> of time for a cab home. When the cabbie arrived, he said he came in
> from
> >> the airport (about 45 minutes from where I was) because no one was
> >> bidding on the ride. He told me the dispatcher was asking, "Anyone in
> >> zone 58 willing to transport a dog?" The cabbie said he knew it was me
> >> and, since no one else bid on it, he knew it was worth the trip in to
> >> pick me up.
> >> I called the company the following day and filed a complaint with
> the
> >> county Public Transportation Comission, alleging I was discriminated
> >> against by the company because my file was flagged as having a service
> >> dog, resulting in an unequal benefit. The ADA states
> >>
> >> "
> >> (ii) Participation in unequal benefit. It shall be discriminatory to
> >> afford an individual or class of individuals, on the basis of a
> >> disability or disabilities
> >>
> >> of such individual or class, directly, or through contractual,
> licensing,
> >> or other arrangements with the opportunity to participate in or
> benefit
> >> from a
> >>
> >> good, service, facility, privilege, advantage, or accommodation that
> is
> >> not equal to that afforded to other individuals." (
> >>
> >> 42 USC 12182.)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Whether the place of public accommodation is a taxicab, hotel, health
> >> care facility, restaurant, or any other place, the presence of your
> >> service animal is irrelevant. By notifying them in advance that you
> will
> >> be accompanied by a service animal, you passively communicate that
> this
> >> is something they need to know about and, therefore, that there is
> >> something they need to do. Not knowing what that "something" might be,
> >> they will certainly make something up, setting you up for
> discrimination.
> >> Furthermore, alerting them in advance sends the message that this is
> >> proper protocol and, when someone does not provide advance notice,
> sets
> >> up an adversarial situation.
> >>
> >> I pose the following question on this topic for debate: What is the
> >> reason for giving advance notice that you will be accompanied by a
> >> service dog? I ask this question in an effort to offer a challenge to
> >> this practice. I promise my challenges will be respectful and
> dignified,
> >> definitely not attacking. This is a great issue for lively, respectful
> >> debate!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Fraternally yours,
> >>
> >> Marion Gwizdala
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Michael Hingson"
> <mhingson at sbcglobal.net<mailto:mhingson at sbcglobal.net>>
> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users'"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> >> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 7:58 PM
> >> Subject: [nagdu] discrimination by taxi and other transportation
> >> providers
> >>
> >>
> >> All,
> >>
> >> I am with Marion on this. Although some may feel that there is no
> wrong
> >> answer I think that at some point we need to take a stand. I
> personally
> >> have found many instances when I gave advanced notification either I
> had
> >> long delays, staff sent a huge van to take me instead of a taxi which
> in
> >> turn caused delays, or other rules about how my dog was suppose to be
> >> transported were made up.
> >>
> >> The law is clear that we and our guides are to be treated the same as
> any
> >> other passenger. There is no excuse for any company providing
> >> transportation to the public insisting on advanced notice for our
> guides.
> >> There is no excuse for any such company permitting any of its drivers
> or
> >> pilots to discriminate against us.
> >>
> >> At the same time I do understand why some on this list take a
> different
> >> tact. While I will not say advanced notice is wrong I would encourage
> >> everyone to work toward taking a strong stance. If we do not company
> >> personnel will never learn that discriminating against us is wrong.
> >>
> >>
> >> Best,
> >>
> >>
> >> Michael Hingson
> >>
> >> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
> >> "Speaking with Vision"
> >> Michael Hingson, President
> >> (415) 827-4084
> >> info at michaelhingson.com<mailto:info at michaelhingson.com>
> >> To learn more about my upcoming book, speaking topics and speaking
> >> availability please visit
> www.michaelhingson.com<http://www.michaelhingson.com/>
> >> Thunder Dog is now available for early ordering on Amazon!!!
> >>
> http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr<http://www.amazon.com/Thunder-Dog-Blind-Triumph-Ground/dp/140020304X/ref=sr>_
> >> 1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289090352&sr=1-3
> >>
> >>
> >> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> >>
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com<http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com/>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Marion Gwizdala
> >> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 4:05 PM
> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
> >>
> >> Gary and all,
> >> I generally advise that one not give advance notice that we will be
> >> traveling with a guide dog. The presence of the service dog is
> irrelevant
> >> to
> >>
> >> whether or not they transport you. If the dispatcher broadcasts, "I'm
> >> looking for someone willing to take a fare with a dog!" you may wait
> >> longer
> >> for a ride than if they didn't know. This sets you up for the type of
> >> discrimination known as an unequal benefit. I have dealt with several
> >> people
> >>
> >> who gave advance notice and regretted it because of the long wait
> times.
> >> JMHO!
> >>
> >> Fraternally yours,
> >> Marion
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "GARY STEEVES"
> <rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca<mailto:rainshadowmusic at shaw.ca>>
> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> >> Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 6:13 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog and taxis
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Hi:
> >>>
> >>> Generally, I don't have a problem just telling the company I have a
> dog
> >>> since, if there is the potential for an issue this should remove it.
> The
> >>> issue I have and am going to talk to my current cab company about is
> >>> that
> >>> they have one letter symbols for things. I learned this two weeks ago
> >>> when
> >>
> >>> three trips in a row I got a van cab. I found out that my file had a
> V
> >>> for
> >>
> >>> van and A for animal. I think they need to add another symbol that
> >>> represents service dogs since an animal is a bit vague. I got cabs
> who
> >>> don't mind dogs but sometimes I think they believe it is a pet,
> >>> especially
> >>
> >>> cuz it's a poodle which they never see as guide dogs. Also, being
> that
> >>> we
> >>> are getting picked up right in front of my house and I've usually
> just
> >>> been walking bogart around the block for his morning relief, he is
> often
> >>> not in harness. the harness is in my hand. However, why I use the
> same
> >>> company all the time is so that many drivers get to know me and often
> >>> show
> >>
> >>> up with the front passenger seat put way forward to
> >>> give Bogart more room and cute things like that.
> >>>
> >>> Gary
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: Tami Kinney
> <tamara.8024 at comcast.net<mailto:tamara.8024 at comcast.net>>
> >>> Date: Friday, July 29, 2011 2:34 pm
> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
> >>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>
> >>>> Lyn,
> >>>>
> >>>> Well said. When I lived nearer to downtown, I would just tell the
> >>>> dispatcher about the dog, although it seems they do have a note
> about
> >>>> her attached to my number. This actually worked in my favor
> >>>> there, where
> >>>> you couldn't swing a cat without hitting one of their cabs. Now I'm
> >>>> still in the Portland Metro area, but apparently this does not
> prevent
> >>>> me living in the boonies as far as the cab companies are
> >>>> concerned. So
> >>>> I've learned to just fail to mention anything at all about a dog or
> >>>> being blind or anything because that does seem to increase the
> >>>> odds a
> >>>> cab will get out here eventually. I've tried a couple of other
> >>>> companiesthat supposedly serve this area, but... Sigh. Anyway,
> >>>> if they want to
> >>>> drive all the way out here and then refuse to take my dog, I
> >>>> guess I'll
> >>>> be putting up a big fuss about that, won't I? /evil grin/
> >>>>
> >>>> Then again, what with having a private driver and on-demand car
> >>>> serviceright here, I guess I won't be giving many cabby's an
> >>>> opportunity to
> >>>> refuse me a ride because of my dog. Ain't that just too
> >>>> bad for
> >>>> me. /lol/
> >>>>
> >>>> Either way, with cabs or hotel reservations or whatever, I tend
> >>>> to do
> >>>> what I believe is most likely to achieve the best results when
> >>>> it comes
> >>>> to deciding whether to mention the dog beforehand or not. Which
> >>>> does not
> >>>> mean I always make the right guess, but I have had few hassles, so
> >>>> that's what matters to me. /smile/
> >>>>
> >>>> Tami
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, 2011-07-28 at 12:42 -0700, Lyn Gwizdak wrote:
> >>>> > I agree with you, Bibi. I will tell the cab dispach that
> >>>> I have a guide dog
> >>>> > and to just send a driver who has no problem with a dog.
> >>>> this way, I get my
> >>>> > cab and no BSing with the driver. People do what you
> >>>> feel is best for you.
> >>>> > There's no right or wrong in this matter.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Lyn and Landon
> >>>> > ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> > From: "Criminal Justice Major Extraordinaire"
> >>>> <orleans24 at comcast.net<mailto:orleans24 at comcast.net>>> To: "NAGDU
> Mailing List,the National
> >>>> Association of Guide Dog Users"
> >>>> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
> >>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 5:54 PM
> >>>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Re Guide Dog Forced to Ride in Trunk
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > > Hi, Brenda,
> >>>> > > I remember when attending a couple of guide dog schools and
> >>>> not hearing
> >>>> > > one word or thing mentioned about if being asked by a cab
> >>>> driver to put
> >>>> > > the dog in a trunk of the car.
> >>>> > > Thankfully, I've not had any experiences with that and
> >>>> hopefully with my
> >>>> > > fourth guide, that won't happen either.
> >>>> > > I know many people here won't agree with what I'm about to
> >>>> say here, but
> >>>> > > here it goes...
> >>>> > > There were times I'd just go ahead and let the cab company
> >>>> know that I
> >>>> > > have a guide dog and it did help and minimize a possible
> problem.
> >>>> > > In the same aspect, I'd get a cab quickly too.
> >>>> > > I only would do this during stressful situations to avoid
> >>>> getting
> >>>> > > frustrated around Odie.
> >>>> > > He is one sensitive boy who would pick up on my anxiety
> >>>> rather quickly.
> >>>> > > If I knew where that dog handler was living here in
> >>>> Colorado, I'd gladly
> >>>> > > help her out or at least be willing to give her some
> >>>> encouragement and
> >>>> > > advice on dealing with situations like that.
> >>>> > > unfortunately, I have no idea if she lives in Denver or
> >>>> another city close
> >>>> > > by to me.
> >>>> > > If someone told me to put Odie in the trunk, I'd happily say
> >>>> right on tthe
> >>>> > > spot, "Would you like it if I just rolled you up and stuck
> >>>> you in that
> >>>> > > area?"
> >>>> > > I know. I'm a tough person when it comes to stuff like that.
> >>>> > > *Smiles*
> >>>> > > Bibi and Odie
> >>>> > > the retired one
> >>>> > >
> >>>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > > nagdu mailing list
> >>>> > > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> >>>> > >
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> >>>> info for
> >>>> > > nagdu:
> >>>> > >
> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n>
> >> et
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>> > nagdu mailing list
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> >>>> >
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> >>
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> >> .net
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nagdu mailing list
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> >>>>
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> >> w.ca
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>
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> >> t
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> >> net
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> >>
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> >
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