[nagdu] Advance Notification

Mon Apr 2 12:18:14 UTC 2012

Just to add, making a building accessible does not trigger ADA, but what
does, are state building codes.  What might trigger in the case of a church,
is accepting any form of federal dollars e.g. early childhood, or early
lunch program dollars which is the case with many churches that have
parochial schools within.  Generally though, in most states, any new
construction, or remodeling however, will trigger accessibility standards
that will need to be applied.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Cindy Ray
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:27 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advance Notification

A lot of churches are old and designed such that they are very difficult if
not impossible to make accessible. Also, often the churches flat don't have
the money to pull it off. Sometimes they make efforts that sort of work, but
often it is just plain difficult for them to do what they need to do. They
struggle with this, too, as many of their older members became increasingly
unable to attend because of the lack of accessibility.

Cindy

On Apr 2, 2012, at 5:53 AM, Marion Gwizdala wrote:

> Lyn,
>   I cannot answer the question concerning other accessible designs for
churches; however, the example you cite might also not be feasible because
of the impractibility of putting in ramps due to the closeness of the
sidewalks.
> 
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lyn Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advance Notification
> 
> 
>> Marion,
>> Curious about churches and the ADA.  Does this mean that churches who
want to rennovate their premeses don't have to be subject to the ADA in that
they need to make their place wheelchair accessible?
>> 
>> Why I ask is that when I belonged to a small church, I was on the Church
Council when we talked about making changes to the building and we were told
that we had to put in an elevator or ramps to make the rennovated space
accessible to wheelchair users.  We couldn't afford to do this and the ramps
would have no physical space due to the closeness of the property to the
street.
>> 
>> As to the dogs, there were several of us who had guide dogs and the
church even put in a relieveing area for the dogs.  This church is very
guide dog friendly - and disability friendly and they made changes to allow
for the participation of people with all disabilities.  Only we were unable
to provide total access to all buildings on the site since we had buildings
built in the 1930s and rennovated in the 1950s.
>> 
>> Me, personally, wouold never attend a church where my guide dog wasn't
welcome.  How can one worship the one they call a "shepherd of man (sheep?)"
and then deny access to the very creatures made by God? Althouogh this
church I was involved in was very welcoming to dogs and disabled, I left
because the pastor was unwelcoming to LGBT folks - out ones - as I came out
to be my real self and moved on.
>> 
>> I know that people will make whatever arrangements with their churches
and that's fine.  I was surprised at the private clubs and churches not
being obligated to be under the ADA rules about service dogs.  Guess I went
to the right clubs and churches! LOL!  The people in these places all loved
Jacob and Landon.
>> 
>> Lyn and Landon
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marion Gwizdala"
<blind411 at verizon.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 4:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advance Notification
>> 
>> 
>>> Cindy,
>>>   You were very wise to notify the church about your guide dog in
advance. As you stated, clubs that are private in nature and churches are
not subject to the provisions of the ADA.
>>> 
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:19 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Advance Notification
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I believe, Marion, that this is a good point. If some give advanced
notification and some don't, then there is reasonably confusion. There is
not only confusion for the companies/businesses, but actually for blind
people as well. Do we or don't we?
>>>> 
>>>> I have signed up for a private retreat at a retreat center. I toyed
with whether or not I should tell them. It is a church facility and not a
public hotel really, so I did notify them in advance; that for me is a gray
area and it is totally out of character for me to do it. They have no
problem with my bringing him but were glad I said so. I think what made me
do it was the notion that churches and the like are not necessarily
considered public.
>>>> 
>>>> Cindy
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blind411%40verizon.net

> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/blinddog3%40charter.net